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I closed this question, stating that it was a duplicate of this question. But later I noticed that it was reopened. But I don't know what to think: according to the edit history this question was reopened after an answer was posted, and it was reopened by the same person who answered.

I try to think positively, but in this case, I really think that the user reopened it because I closed it while they were answering, frustrating the user on the way.

Should I have closed it? If no, why not? Was the reopen appropriate?

I'm asking because I have the solo-close privilege for Java questions, and I don't want to abuse it (ideally, I would rather not have that privilege, but I know that's something that stirred lots of discussions here).

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    TBF, that dupe target is... quite bad.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 21:12
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    Well, the codes being used are quite different, and the accepted answer on the other question won't really answer the problem the new asker is having, right? But it looks like there's still enough information in the other question to solve the problem if the new asker significantly changes around their approach (in a barely adequate sense...) Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 21:12
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    @KevinB so the OP can still use their hammer but dupe vote in the other direction. Then we wait if that gets re-opened as well ...
    – rene
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 21:14
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    It's about as useful as a typo question.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 21:15
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    There are a lot of duplicates. So maybe I wasn't optimal in my choice, but there are way other choices. This is definitely a duplicate. Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 21:28
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    Right, but, it's incredibly important that the right dupe be chosen, otherwise closing it as a dupe is counter productive. Dupes don't get auto-deleted by the roomba, they stay around forever unless ~3 people decide to delete vote it out. As such, we should avoid making signposts to low quality posts, it doesn't serve anyone or improve anything. The person who answered isn't required to go out and find a better dupe
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 21:33
  • @KevinB wonder what's particularly wrong with this duplicate. If I had a question like asked about here, I would definitely accept and use solution from dupe target, do I miss something?
    – gnat
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 22:12
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    @gnat the target that was used was answered "You are actually counting the number of Mondays. Calendar.SUNDAY is the first week day constant, and has value 1. Why not compare c.get(Calendar.DAY_OF_WEEK) with Calendar.SUNDAY directly?", which... from what i can tell, being someone not super familiar with java, the OP in the question is already doing. it's effectively a different problem, with the same source assignment.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 22:15
  • @KevinB I just happen to be familiar with Java and to me the already-almost-correct code in dupe target question, coupled with necessary correction in the accepted answer would clearly do what I want
    – gnat
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 22:19
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    @gnat: if the answer to the supposedly-duplicate question is found in the question itself, rather than that question's answer, it does not seem like the same question, nor a valid duplicate. It's certainly worth maybe posting a link to the question in a comment, to nudge the question's author to an example they might be able to use to correct their own mistake. But it doesn't answer the question. Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 22:30
  • @PeterDuniho as I already wrote I happen to use Java and to me the dupe target would solve the problem. Meaning, if I was the asker - or if I was just searching for solution without actually posting a question, dupe target would suffice and I would search no further. Make from this whatever you want, I just describe how I use Stack Overflow to solve my coding problems (and am quite satisfied with results)
    – gnat
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 22:37
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    " the dupe target would solve the problem" -- as I already wrote, that's a necessary but not sufficient condition to justify a closure as a duplicate. Shall we just go back and forth reiterating points that the other of us disagrees with? "I just describe how I use Stack Overflow to solve my coding problems" -- the process you describe is useful, yes...but not justification for a closure as a duplicate. By that standard, almost no question on Stack Overflow belongs here. Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 22:42
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    essentially, i think we need to know what's wrong with the OP's code, to be able to effectively close it as a duplicate. If you know what's wrong with their code, and can find a dupe that addresses that, great, otherwise... there's probably a better close reason to choose. I don't think it's fair to anyone to just post a working solution somewhere to this assignment and then close all questions trying to solve this assignment and having trouble as dupes of it. It's effectively "Why fix your code when you can just copy paste this working solution?"
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 22:56
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    @PeterDuniho I re-read dupe target once again and I think you are wrong here. Its title and very first sentence clearly state the problem and that problem is exact duplicate, "calculate the total number of sundays which fall on the first day of every month". The rest is attempt to solve - demonstration of effort, normal and welcomed addition to the question. The answer to the question looks accurate and reasonably full in the context of the attempted code in the question (pedantically it could copy the attempted code from the question and make the correction its part but this is unimportant)
    – gnat
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 22:57
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    @gnat: you are welcome to your opinion, however erroneous it may be. Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 23:11

3 Answers 3

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Your duplicate closure is basically saying, "Because OP A and OP B are both asking about counting Sundays between each other, their questions are the same and the solution is also the same."

This way of approaching duplicates is categorically wrong, and I'll explain. Note that I too have a gold badge in Java and work professionally in it every day.

The data set being used is different between the two questions, and the problem would also be different between the two questions for that reason.

Here's a breakdown of their data. The first number is how often they loop, then the sequences are starting year, starting month, starting day, ending year, ending month, ending day. The problem the OP is asking about happens with the fourth entry.

OUTPUT SHOULD BE: 18 2 2 1720 0 1

My CODE OUTPUT IS: 18 2 2 1714 0 1

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4699 12 12 4710 1 1
1988 3 25 1989 7 13
1924 6 6 1925 6 16
1000000000000 2 2 1000000001000 3 2
1925 6 16 1924 6 6
1905 1 1 1905 1 1

SimpleDateFormat and java.util.Date are pretty crappy and unfit for a lot of general usages, so...it wouldn't surprise me if there was something super broken if you tried to compute the number of Sundays between the years 1000000000000 and 1000000001000, too.

It's also the case that the OP in the one you hammered is determining "Sunday" in a radically different way than the other OP. The question you wanted to close this as a dupe target of basically used an array with "Monday" as the first day, which would lead to some inconsistent errors in calculation anyway.

So no, these aren't dupes, and will never be dupes. The problem they have is fundamentally different.

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    "their questions are the same and the solution is also the same" Yeah, and "blatantly" so at that? When I came in I was expecting an exact repost or a copy-paste duplicate. That's my definition of "blatant duplicate".
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Mar 12, 2021 at 4:58
  • Did you see that then @BoltClock? Because I sure as heck didn't.
    – Makoto
    Commented Mar 12, 2021 at 5:32
  • Yeah, me neither. OK so my original comment was definitely worded awkwardly because I was pretty sure it was gonna be misunderstood.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Mar 12, 2021 at 5:34
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I really think that the user reopened it because I closed it while they were answering, frustrating the user on the way.

Maybe. That said, I don't think the duplicate you chose was very good. It's technically the same problem being solved, but the two questions seem otherwise different to me. They are both asking for debugging help, but the duplicate target you picked involves a completely different kind of bug in the program than in the question you closed (i.e. essentially it was a typographical error, not a logic error).

Should I have closed it?

Maybe? Fact is, moderation actions by the user community are often subjective. The goal should be first and foremost to ensure that the content on the site is usable by future readers, with a secondary goal of helping the user who posted the question.

While I don't agree that the target you selected would achieve either of those goals, if you honestly feel that it would, especially the first of the two, then yes, you should have closed it.

It's worth being careful and trying to make sure your actions are appropriate, but at the end of the day, assuming you did that and you still came to the conclusion that closing the question was the right thing to do, then you did the right thing.

If no, why not? Was the reopen appropriate?

Frankly, I find the answer that was posted doesn't actually answer the question. It's a bad answer in that respect. The author does seem to be trying to help, but it's not going to help the author of the question understand what they did wrong in their own code, nor to help anyone else in the future who makes a similar mistake understand their mistake.

It's like someone posted a Quicksort implementation that had a bug in it, seeking help figuring out what they did wrong, and someone else posted an answer that was effectively "you should just call the runtime library's qsort() function". That type of answer provides an answer to a question entirely different from the one that was asked.

So, was the reopen appropriate? I personally think it probably was, inasmuch as the duplicate target you selected isn't likely to help the author of the question understand their own mistake, nor is it likely to help someone else who made a similar mistake understand theirs.

But the person who reopened the question does not seem to be really doing all that great a job providing the help that was actually needed.

If we were sure that this question was a duplicate, you could argue that leaving it closed still allows for someone with the appropriate privileges to edit the duplicate targets list, i.e. "no harm, no foul". But given the target you picked doesn't seem to be the right duplicate, it's not clear that it is in fact a duplicate of any question. So until such time as someone does identify the correct duplicate, it makes sense to leave the question open.

All that said, frankly the question itself certainly could be better. There's no evidence in the question of what the author did to solve it, and there are two completely independent components of the question — the user input, and then the actual computation — an error in either of which could be responsible for a bug. The author should have narrowed the problem to just the single component where they are sure the bug exists. Seems like there's a lot of room for improvement on all fronts on that page.

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    "Frankly, I find the answer that was posted doesn't actually answer the question" i had that concern as well, but in their defense, the title of the question could certainly be better. Their answer answers what people who find that question by it's title would be looking for
    – Kevin B
    Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 22:43
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    @KevinB: that's true, and to that extent perhaps it's useful. That said, titles often describe what the goal is, and should not be construed as the final word on what the question is. On the other hand, users are free to post any answer they like, as long as it can be construed as some attempt to answer the question. It's been my observation that this criterion is applied generously; i.e. as a community, we tend to err on the side of openness to answers, which means that in a lot of cases, one person will find a post a valid answer while another will not. Bottom line: it's subjective. Commented Mar 11, 2021 at 22:47
  • @PeterDuniho I was once compelled to expand an answer into two answers, because people kept finding the question via its title and not noticing that the body of the question was subtly different. I kept getting downvotes because I didn't answer the question posed by the title. Commented Mar 12, 2021 at 1:18
  • @MarkRansom Especially fun when the title of the question (or the question itself, at that) got edited long after your answer (sometimes years later). Commented Mar 12, 2021 at 11:15
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"Why was this blatant duplicate reopened?" Probably because it's not a blatant dupe. Those are two distinct questions with distinct approaches and distinct bugs and which, by their nature, require different answers. To be completely explicit:

  • This question requires the answer "you've mistakenly counted Mondays instead of Sundays".
  • This question requires the answer "the API you're using can't support what you've asked of it".

The reason for marking a duplicate simply cannot be "the titles are similar", "the original challenge is the same", "the code in the question is similar", "the code in the answers is similar", "the code in an answer of one question could be used to solve the original challenge that ultimately lead to another question", etc. Don't ignore that helpful hint when you mark a duplicate: "This question has been asked before and already has an answer." When you close a question as a duplicate, you are making that claim, and the target should serve as proof of that claim. That is absolutely not the case in this situation.

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  • You know that I said as much in my answer, right?
    – Makoto
    Commented Mar 12, 2021 at 23:16
  • Aside from agreeing that the questions are dupes, we haven't said the same thing at all. I focused on showing that a legitimate answer to one question could not be a legitimate answer to the other, and vice versa. You focus on the fact that the data sets and specific symptoms are distinct (which I do not agree with). So, no, you did not say as much. Commented Mar 12, 2021 at 23:34

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