41

In keeping with today's theme I'd like to revive a very old request: we should have a limited number of Super Downvotes to use each day as we see fit.

Bugs Bunny with a nine-shooter, Yosemite Sam with a ten-shooter

My reasoning is simple: folks enjoy downvoting, and In These Dark Times we need to maximize whatever enjoyment we can scrounge up!

For years, folks have treated closing as a super downvote, but that's just wrong and you should be ashamed of yourself for thinking otherwise. The two systems are orthogonal, and should be treated as such. But... It's so hard to do that, when racked by temptation.

So let us be led no longer into temptation, but give us our daily super downvote and allow us to be at peace!

Mock-up

a bigger downvote button below the normal downvote button

33
  • 10
    I was about to suggest a super-upvote to compensate, but we have that already: bounties... It'd only be fair to add a super-dv!
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 26, 2021 at 23:05
  • 12
    the purge but for Stack Overflow Commented Feb 26, 2021 at 23:05
  • 6
    Both, @cigien. Why should we limit who can be a part of such joy?
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 26, 2021 at 23:12
  • 7
    Because for the second group, this proposal is next to useless. The users who close questions they don't like, want to actually close the question. Super downvotes are not going to give them that, and so they will continue closing questions they want to close.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 26, 2021 at 23:15
  • 6
    I have no opinions on your kinks, @blastfurnace; you do you.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 26, 2021 at 23:18
  • 57
    Um, I did sleep more than usual last night. Is it April 1st already?
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Feb 26, 2021 at 23:20
  • 4
    You're arguing vigilantism, @Scratte. I get it: Batman is cool. But we are a society of rules and order!
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 26, 2021 at 23:28
  • 15
    Not sure if serious. Commented Feb 26, 2021 at 23:36
  • 6
    Not April, @41686d6564 - Friday
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 27, 2021 at 1:09
  • 3
    What effect would it have on the post? Will it delete it? Will it hide it from everyone else? Will it prevent low-quality answers? The proposal needs some details.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Feb 27, 2021 at 1:38
  • 21
    Will it do something therapeutic like play a bubble wrap popping sound on click?
    – 0Valt
    Commented Feb 27, 2021 at 2:14
  • 11
    I remind everyone that we had a "thank you" feature: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/398367/… so it worth testing a "super downvote" Commented Feb 27, 2021 at 7:47
  • 12
    Can I super-downvote this very question? Commented Feb 27, 2021 at 19:16
  • 8
    And here I thought this was an announcement about Shog10
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 2:18
  • 7
    Can this one go up to 11? Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 2:28

9 Answers 9

48

I disagree with limiting it. We might have a better solution. The anti bounty! Spend reputation to cost reputation for a particularly bad post.

It will let high rep users finally put the fear of dog on the undeserving.

5k and up to get a user suspended. 100k for a 10 year suspension.

It can't fail 🤨

tongue firmly in cheek. May contain nuts

8
  • 3
    While you're claiming this answer is tongue in cheek, I suspect it might be taking this proposal exactly as seriously as it was meant to be taken. I'm refraining from upvoting this answer until the [fun] tag is added to the question though.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 3:51
  • 1
    I also think something contains nuts, and I suspect the lack of fun tag is intentional. Explaining the joke or telling someone something is a joke isn't.... funny Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 4:13
  • 1
    Yeah, making a joke obvious isn't funny. On the other hand, if it's not clear enough that something is a joke, it runs the risk of wasting people's time because they take it seriously. If this "feature-request" is a joke, then it's disrespectful to the several users who've taken the time to give thought out responses. It's much better to have a joke fall flat than to waste people's time I feel.
    – cigien
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 4:24
  • I would definitely use this feature. I don't understand what you mean by tongue in cheek but I like this idea.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 14:05
  • I love this feature. Please implement it, it's probably the best feature-request I've seen in a while.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 18:07
  • lol, imagine we spend reputation on a post so that upvoting it incurs a reputation penalty until our bounty runs course. Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 1:38
  • 1
    Hard disagree, unless negative reputation becomes a thing. Worst posts come from low-rep users, making this suggestion inefficient. Commented Mar 4, 2021 at 10:08
  • 1
    Most spam is made by 1 rep accounts, would you really spend reputation on a question that's going to get deleted by a user that's going to get deleted?
    – Anonymous
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 13:30
19

enter image description here


For the record:

  • I get the joke. Close votes and deletion as super-downvotes has been a meme since time immemorial.
  • I get the reference. You were making light of a situation that happened/boiled over on Meta. That's fine IMO.
  • I get that there's a lot of people who are interested in having a heart-felt discussion over what a "super downvote" actually is.

...but honestly, this is the only face I can muster right now. You baited some folks out with this one, but for those who think that a super downvote is exactly what we need...you get the look above.

14
  • 6
    Oh, so this feature request was not meant to be taken seriously at all?
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:17
  • 1
    @cigien I think you'll find (with a modicum of investigation) that the OP would have had ample time (and, certainly, the means) to implement this feature, in a past existence, had he really wanted to. Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:21
  • 1
    @AdrianMole Yes, I know they could have, but maybe they didn't want to, and now changed their mind, or they would have liked to, but it wasn't a priority? Anyway, I get the idea, this whole post is a joke. It's in poor taste IMO, given the strong feelings people have about the topic. Maybe it was clear enough that this post is a joke, and I simply missed it; I don't claim to have the best grasp of what counts as humor.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:26
  • Bugs Bunny not sufficient clue? Poor taste - not sure; Meta is about discussion, and this post has certainly provoked that. And - just possibly - taken some of the 'heat' out of recent, related posts? Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:27
  • It's a response to the discussion. I love Shog and know what he's doing here, but this honestly represents my raw, unfiltered emotions.
    – Makoto
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:30
  • @AdrianMole Like I said, I don't claim to have a good grasp of what's funny or not. It's mildly annoying to me that I would need that in order to have a discussion on Meta. I suppose that's on me, and I guess I should just learn to recognize this form of humor better. Anyway, I'm deleting my answer since it was not written in the same spirit as the question itself. Thanks for clarifying this.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:33
  • 2
    @cigien Keep your Answer. Even if the Question is meant as a joke, the merits of it isn't. Some users want this.. (BTW: I didn't get the joke either at first.)
    – Scratte
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:34
  • @Scratte No, I think how people use their votes is a valuable and important discussion to have, and I would rather do that in a Meta that's trying to address that seriously. Users are more than welcome to their jokes, of course, I'd just rather not make a serious argument when the premise is not serious. It's just a personal preference when it comes to means of discourse.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:40
  • @cigien I understand, but look at the Answers. Some are very serious and I feel they are just as important as the joke ones. Also notice that the joke ones have a message just like the serious ones do. I liked your Answer and so did others, which is obvious since it had a score of 7. (The premise is serious enough, it's only the delivery that was joking around)
    – Scratte
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:44
  • @Scratte Sure, I'm not saying that the question can't be answered, it's just that I didn't answer it when I understood what the question actually meant. Now that I know, I might give it some thought and write a better answer.
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:48
  • Wait, so you say people did think this is a serious feature request (unless this is meta irony)? :) I was really starting to worry if that is the case after the 3rd deadpan-serious answer.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 0:48
  • 1
    awww Makoto pls let people enjoy things! Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 1:39
  • 2
    @FélixGagnon-Grenier: Have your fun; I'll just be shouting in my yard...
    – Makoto
    Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 3:55
  • And yet, it has its own tag. Let's burnate it.
    – Anonymous
    Commented May 9, 2021 at 16:54
17

Unfortunately without a clear suggestion in how this would improve the quality of posts on the site this proposal has no merit.

There are times I wish I could cast 10 or 100 downvotes on a single answer, but this is to counter whatever upvotes it might have or to show how terribly bad the solution proposed really is. I don't think this applies to questions. Questions are just vessels for answers. If a question is going to attract low-quality answers then it needs to be closed and deleted. Downvoting the question heavily won't do any good.

I actually believe that if we are to get super-downvote, then it should only apply to answers, same as the bounty does. Something like a negative bounty would make sense, but it doesn't really solve the problem of low-quality answers. The best option would be to remove them or hide them from plain sight.

Allowing people to super-downvote questions would only make the current problem worse. People often use questions to retaliate, letting them cast super-downvotes would allow them to have super-revenge.

If a question truly deserves super-downvotes then it probably also deserves to be closed and deleted. Why would we keep otherwise something that is so terrible? If the question has good answers, then it should be rewritten. Either way, we already have tools that act in place of super-downvotes. We can close and delete such questions, which is the ultimate goal of it. We want to prevent answers and hide them away.

Downvotes are not a means to hurt the user who posted it. They are means to curate the content and let others know not to waste time reading the post.

11

While this idea may be a bit ridiculous... I would not mind having it on Meta...

On the other hand, the real problem here is that Meta requires a more expressive system for voting. I always feel bad that I have to downvote (regardless of the "no reputation penalty" for Meta) some post that is really written and presented well, just because I don't agree with the idea or the premise.

I think that some additional venue for expressing agreement or disagreement would be nice. Something like thumbs up, thumbs down. Maybe even +100 or -100 for things you feel very strongly about. And some suggestions are just meh.

9

This feature is underspecified, which by itself is a hint. And I think I know what you're hinting at.

This isn't the first time the term super downvote is mentioned. It has been a tongue-in-cheek name for any other action of moderation with the intent to intensify what should otherwise be just a downvote. Whether this super downvote takes the form of a close vote or a delete vote, is frowned upon. Close votes are not for questions with a clear goal and topicality, but zero research effort. And delete votes are not for heavily downvoted answers and questions on Meta. However, despite these votes only being possible by supposedly reputable members of the site, they have occurred at least sporadically. Even if in a small amount, they could eventually provide more fuel to the bad image people paint about Stack Overflow.

With that said, it is a bit absurd to imagine a "super downvote" button being enough to lure users away from misusing the other actions. Instead, I would definitely go for features which help in educating about moderation on the platform, and communication between users on the Meta sites. A few concrete but unpolished ideas come to mind:

  • Provide more tools to communicate on Meta sites. It does get tiring to explain everyone who's new to Meta that voting here is different. If we show a different set of operations to score or assess a question, not only it will already be clear that voting is different, it will also make an opportunity to design clearer actions on a post. For example, the "thanks" feature was a pretty bad idea in general, but it could work on Meta.
  • Improve our guidelines and criteria for distinguishing Meta discussions worth keeping from those that should be taken away. From yesterday's incident, it is clear that we don't quite have a consensus on this. Like some people say¹, one person's WTF is another person's FTW. On the other hand, even a thoughtful and concerning question can be the source of unnecessary drama and unwarranted soapboxes for ill-posed opinions.
  • When pressing Delete, present users with more information about when to vote to delete, rather than the overly simple prompt that we currently have.

¹ Definitely not something I found this one time on Twitter and grew in me since then.

2
  • 2
    Does FTW mean "Free The Whales"?
    – Scratte
    Commented Feb 27, 2021 at 16:25
  • 4
    @Scratte For the win, its an acronym of common confusion... Commented Feb 27, 2021 at 16:27
9

Why stop at Super Down Votes? We could have Super Close Votes; or, rather, layers of closure.

So, if a question is potentially closable for multiple reasons, then it can be closed multiple times. For example: Once for lacking details or clarity, again for being opinion-based, and again for being a duplicate.

Such questions would then require the appropriate (multiple) number of Reopen Votes to get them back into active life.

Here's an illustration of a possible model (relevant link):

enter image description here

15
  • 1
    You missed the Super Delete Vote: First one is a Hard delete. Second: Nukes the user. Third: Nukes the user across the network.
    – Scratte
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 22:33
  • @Scratte But I play by the rules - votes are about content, not about the user! ;-P Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 22:40
  • 4
    I see. Maybe we could change it to "Nuke the site"?
    – Scratte
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 22:56
  • @Scratte That would, actually, make more sense (within the literal definition of site rules). Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 22:57
  • @Scratte "Nuke all employees and moderators accounts" is before "Nuke the site". What do you think?
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:07
  • 1
    Also, how can a question be lacking details and a duplicate? If such a question exists, then it shouldn't be closed as a duplicate, or the original duplicate should be closed.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:08
  • @10Rep The illustrated model may be equally suitable for relocation of staff and/or moderators. In fact, perhaps even more so. ‎ (Though I would have to exclude erstwhile staff members, obviously! 😉)‎ Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:08
  • "exclude erstwhile staff members". You're hoping your Answer gets accepted.. tsk tsk ;)
    – Scratte
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:36
  • @Scratte Can you blame a guy for tryin'? I'm just amazed there isn't a single downvote (super or otherwise); I suppose that will change, though. Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:37
  • That's kind of the point though. What exactly would voting on this answer mean? I frankly have no idea; does it mean I think your proposal is bad/good? Does it mean I find your joke, or reference, amusing?
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:46
  • 2
    @cigien Several people have described Meta using phrases similar to, 'Tis a strange place. Not every post need be 100% serious. This one, though (possibly) one of Shog's jokes, does actually bring out some potential issues. Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:49
  • 1
    Absolutely, there are some very important things being discussed here. However, it not being clear whether it is a joke or not, is an issue. For example, there are users who sincerely believe that downvotes (and other votes) are used by the SO "elite" because they actually get off on making new users suffer. What signal does this Q&A send to those new users I wonder?
    – cigien
    Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 23:56
  • 1
    @cigien Probably best to let Shog9 answer that point. Anything I would say now would only be speculation. Shog works in mysterious ways. Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 0:14
  • @Scratte Fourth SDV: nukes the planet user (site?) is on Commented Mar 4, 2021 at 10:02
  • ..."it's the only way to be sure" <Ripley>
    – Criggie
    Commented Jul 4, 2023 at 5:27
1

I'm surprised no one is asking this (maybe it is something everyone knows and I am new so I don't).

What is the reputation gate for this power? 2k rep? 10k rep? I can't imagine letting users with the downvote privilege have this privilege. The resulting mess would be chaos to say the least.


Also, what's the guarantee there won't be at least one user who decides they can now downvote, close, and super downvote on questions? It's impossible to predict what some people will do.

All in all, I think this is an OK idea, but it needs some more rethinking and the feature itself would have to have some limits to be useful in the least.

2
  • 3
    I'll propose the use of a super-downvote should disable any other voting on the post. Except for maybe "follow" ;)
    – Scratte
    Commented Feb 27, 2021 at 17:18
  • LOL my answer is just in the endless void :)
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Mar 2, 2021 at 0:07
-4

Most down- and close votes could be avoided if your users would be in a better mood. A grumpy user is not motivated to put a lot of effort in helping OPs to improve their posts, a grumpy user will simply down- and/or close vote and move on. A happy user is much more lenient to help the OP improving their post.

How is this connected to the super downvote? Easy: If a user super-downvotes more than one post of the same user, add some functionality that in the future the user no longer sees any posts from this OP. The user will be much happier if they can use their time and effort constructively to improve stackoverflow.

3
  • 1
    What if that user makes a good post? This seems like a social media feature where one user can block the other and it gives the wrong message.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 17:19
  • @10Rep The risk of missing a potentially good post is totally worth it if all other posts are perceived in a better mood Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 18:28
  • 2
    It would be interesting to know what percentage of down/closevotes are on posts from users a user has never interacted with before. I would not be surprised if it's quite high. In which case this suggestion is likely to have minimal impact. Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 13:34
-5

Since the request didn't mention what super downvote will actually do, here is my suggestion.

  • First super downvote on a post will reduce 10 points from the post author.
  • Second super downvote on a post will reduce 50 points from the post author.
  • Third super downvote on a post will reduce 100 points from the post author.
  • Fourth super downvote on a post will reduce 500 points from the post author.
  • Fifth super downvote on a post will reduce 1000 points from the post author and post automatic tweet alerting all the followers of this post.
  • Any further super downvote will reduce 1000 points more from the post author.
10
  • 4
    While I agree with the sentiment, this would give it too much potential for abuse.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 9:17
  • 4
    I'm not agreeing with your forth one. I think that should just reduce by 500 reputation points. And bring negative reputation to Stack. Fifth goes to -1000. With enough people using the super downvote on a post.. we can get the fabulous -1m reputation points. "It's not all the stuff you did that matters, it's the worst stuff you did that sticks."
    – Scratte
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 9:19
  • 2
    @Scratte fair point, on second thought I won't like to delete something that can attract so much attention. Edited. :P Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 9:28
  • 2
    So kind of super-bounty with an immediate winner!
    – rene
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 12:03
  • Why should it reduce reputation at all?
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 14:06
  • @Dharman because upvote increase the reputation. Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 14:07
  • 1
    Not penalizing enough! :) As normal DV costs 2^1, let's make super DV cost 2^2 1st time, 2^4 2nd, 2^8 3rd, 2^16 4th, and every other just reducing the score to 1. [please don't consider that]
    – 0Valt
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 16:04
  • 3
    Does the word "serial super downvoting" strike any terror? I've had posts serially downvoted 5 times, so I would lose half of my reputation.
    – 10 Rep
    Commented Feb 28, 2021 at 18:06
  • 1
    @10Rep fair game though. Let's give them bigger weapons! ;-) Commented Mar 1, 2021 at 6:47
  • @OlegValter Let's consider it, among with the suggestion to make rep go below 1. The servers would be overloaded with disassociation and account deletion requests.
    – Anonymous
    Commented Apr 2, 2021 at 13:37

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