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I've seen a repeating pattern from a certain high-rep user, where they answer a question and at the same time vote to close it as off-topic. The question actually ended up being closed as off-topic several times when I've seen this pattern for the specific user and they never deleted their answer or voted to reopen the question.

According to Should I mod flag users who repeatedly answer a question and then vote to close it such behaviour should indeed be flagged for moderator intervention.

My message with the custom flag was the following:

User voted to close the question as off-topic, but answered it at the same time. This is not the first time I'm seeing this behaviour from the same user either.

However, my flag was declined with the reason:

declined - flags should only be used to make moderators aware of content that requires their intervention

I don't understand the decline reason, since A) this is exactly something that requires moderator intervention and B) the consensus on meta seems to be on my side.

I don't want to point fingers, hence I deliberately didn't include the Q&A here. I'd really appreciate if (preferably a moderator) could shed some light on what I did wrong and why my flag was declined.

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    Probably would have been better if you had an example of "This is not the first time I'm seeing this behaviour from the same user either." linked in the flag. Mods got lots of flags and not a lot of time rooting for another example.
    – user1228
    Commented Dec 14, 2018 at 21:12
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    @Will you're absolutely right, but that's been a while ago, so I didn't think about trying to find the mentioned Q&A. I thought a mod should be able to find it easier amongst the flagged answers of the user, since I've already flagged a previous such answer of the user in question (though I should have mentioned this in my custom flag probably). Still, the decline reason leaves me puzzled... It doesn't say the mods couldn't establish that the user was repeatedly doing this, it just states as if my custom mod flag didn't raise any concerns that required mod intervention. Commented Dec 14, 2018 at 21:29
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    It's really difficult to discuss this without going into the specifics of the questions and answers flagged. The user involved is a subject-matter expert and provides great answers to questions. In this case, they voted to close the question for lacking enough code, but they provided an answer that described the generic case. Similarly, other questions they voted to close had problems, but they were able to extract and answer parts of them. I'll let the moderator who handled this explain in more detail, but we discussed this today and I personally didn't think there was a reason to intervene.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Dec 14, 2018 at 21:32
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    @BradLarson said user repeated their behaviour again since I've opened this meta question, marking a question as off-topic, since it was caused by a typo and answering stating that the issue was caused by a typo. I respect said user as a subject-matter expert, but again: if they can provide a good enough answer for said question, why vote to close it? That is what's alarming to me. AFAIK off-topic questions shouldn't be answered, but if said user feels (maybe even rightly) that they can answer said questions, why vote to close them as off-topic? Commented Dec 14, 2018 at 21:34
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    @BradLarson So do they actually believe that the questions lacked enough information to be answered, or not? If they do, then why did they post an answer, if they feel that the questions don't have enough information to be answered? And if they do have enough information to be answered, why vote to close them, a mechanism for indicating that they don't have enough information to be be answered?
    – Servy
    Commented Dec 14, 2018 at 21:54
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    @BradLarson If you vote to close, by definition, you think that the question can't (or shouldn't) be answered in its current state. Either way, you shouldn't answer questions that you also vote to close. Commented Dec 14, 2018 at 21:54
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    I know what you mean and I feel your pain. Some with a gold tag to hammer a question posts an answer and hammer a question, or voted to close otherwise. I feel that this is a form of monopoly and it's not fair for others who may have a better or alternative answer/solution. At best, you could vote to reopen and also let the answerer know about it, which is what I do and it is usually well-accepted. Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 14:41

3 Answers 3

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This was a failing of communication on our part. Personally, I would have marked similar flags as helpful, as I can see the point made in the flag. The issue is, there was no need to take disciplinary action against that user (explained below) and that should have been explained in the flag response. Whether it was marked helpful or declined, we should have let you know this.

The user in question contributes well to the site and when you look at the overall answers of closed questions compared to questions left open, there's no issue. As for casting close votes, the user usually doesn't cast a close vote until someone else has. Implying that they're not intending to answer low quality questions, but to help. They are flexible and open to accepting feedback about a question they have answered. There are worse crimes.

There was one case where this user cast the first close vote. It came after the OP made it clear in the comments that the question was unanswerable. The comments have been deleted, so it's not possible for you to see the history of events.

I hope this is clearer. Let me know if you have any further questions about this.

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    Yes, the no disciplinary action needed part helps with the explanation the most, thanks. I understand that not moderation is not black and white, the confusion was caused by the fact that the community and moderator consensus in general seemed to be that such questions shouldn't be answered, which I still believe is the case and don't believe both answering a question and casting a close vote is justified in most cases (or any case), but I understand now that this doesn't require moderation action. Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 0:10
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    This answer is a hedge begging the question. See my comment on another moderator answer. Just tell them not to do it. The vote-after-answering pattern does not mitigate, it shows they inappropriately answer then inappropriately don't delete their answer.
    – philipxy
    Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 20:58
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    @philipxy no actually, this person contributes greatly to the site. They actually help people. The answers are good, they're not worthless. I'm not driving one of our highest rep users off the site because there's a misguided ideal that some people feel need to be applied without any sensibility to the context of the situation.
    – user3956566
    Commented Dec 16, 2018 at 0:39
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    You are ignoring my points & continuing rationalizing. Eg I didn't say they didn't help people or even that inappropriately answering questions doesn't help people. You are basically saying screw the rules you are letting them do what they want because of an overall benefit. So stop rationalizing & just say that. Or change the rules. PS You would not be driving them off, they would be leaving because they didn't like their inappropriate behaviour being appropriately not tolerated.
    – philipxy
    Commented Dec 16, 2018 at 1:25
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    "You are basically saying screw the rules you are letting them do what they want because of an overall benefit." - Actually, I think she is saying that there is no such rule!
    – Stephen C
    Commented Dec 16, 2018 at 2:17
  • @StephenC yes, correct. They're not actually doing anything wrong.
    – user3956566
    Commented Dec 16, 2018 at 2:37
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    @StephenC & YvetteColomb Again: Links here show answers that should be closed should not be answered, contradicting "no such rule" & "nothing wrong". I'm done.
    – philipxy
    Commented Dec 17, 2018 at 2:08
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    @philipxy - Those links are not rules. They are opinions. And a lot of people disagree with them. Indeed, there are a lot of people here (including moderators) who think it is OK to answer poor questions in some circumstances.
    – Stephen C
    Commented Dec 17, 2018 at 2:14
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I hope I'm not the user in question. I occasionally do this when gold-hammering a post in order to help the OP see how the duplicate is correct. Many FAQs keep on occurring in forms where the answer is simple and well-documented, but it's not obvious until you see how yours is another manifestation of the set of symptoms.

I think this reasonably extends to scenarios where you can guess what the OP is getting at even if they don't have the understanding and terminology to describe it properly, let alone figure out how to proceed. Post a brief answer explaining how the pieces interconnect, then proceed to vote to close as objectively unclear.

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  • the user in question has been contacted privately and made aware of the flags and this meta question.
    – user3956566
    Commented Dec 17, 2018 at 7:36
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After discussion with my fellow moderators I declined the flag because I really don't think this is a problem that moderators should step in on. The specific user produces a lot of answers every day, and they vote to close in a small number of cases.

I do apologise for not being more specific, I should have left feedback with the flag.

While it may be preferable to not both answer and vote to close, this is not actually a big problem that needs a moderator intervening. While I personally would not both answer and vote to close at the same time, doing so anyway is not by itself problematic behaviour. They are choosing to help someone in spite of the post being off-topic, and are probably fully aware that they risk the post being deleted in future.

If you feel that the answers are not helpful, you are free to vote on the answer accordingly. You could also try to talk the specific user; they may be able to motivate why they do this, or be receptive to constructive feedback on why they perhaps would not want to do this. I have not found any evidence of anyone having reached out to them in comments, for example.

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    "They are choosing to help someone in spite of the post being off-topic" I'll post a question asking about lures to use when catching walleye on a specific lake, then someone answers that question and everything is OK?
    – Teemu
    Commented Dec 14, 2018 at 23:23
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    Thanks for the explanation. However, it seems like there isn't a consensus on the topic between the community and the moderators. What's even more alarming is that even moderators stated that off-topic questions shouldn't be answered, so now learning that the current moderator view is that this behaviour is alright is quite surprising to me. I understand if no penalty is justified for such behaviour, but I still don't understand how is is not discouraged to both vote to close a question and answer it at the same time. Commented Dec 14, 2018 at 23:27
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    @DávidPásztor it's not black and white. I hope my answer has explained that for you.
    – user3956566
    Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 0:02
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    I don't understand how after a discussion among moderators that a consensus was reached that it is okay to VTC a question and also answer it. That should categorically be not permitted, no matter what their contribution to the site is.
    – corsiKa
    Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 1:55
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    @Teemu Yes it's OK until someone notices that the question is actually off-topic. It might be obvious in your example, but the user in question might not have seen it as off-topic until someone else pointed it out.
    – artem
    Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 3:47
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    @DávidPásztor: as Yvette said, it's not as black and white as all that. We have to make judgement calls, and here the judgement call was not to pursue further. I should have marked your flag as helpful, however.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 12:59
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    @MartijnPieters I understand the call not to make take any disciplinary action, what I didn't understand was why the user wasn't approached privately following the flag by a mod, but with both of your explanations, I've got the reason. Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 15:51
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    @YvetteColomb & MartijnPieters It's black & white. The user should not do that. You moderators keep saying "... but they contribute well" as if that was relevant. "indending to help" is not a valid reason to do something. You contradict yourself with "not by itself problematic behaviour" yet "in spite of the post being off-topic". "there is no issue" begs the question. Tell them not to do it & if they do it discipline. "But ... he loves me."
    – philipxy
    Commented Dec 15, 2018 at 20:58

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