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This question had a bounty added to it on February 22nd at 8:31 AM. At 17:23 the same day, I mod flagged to close the question remove the bounty. It was a widely off-topic "give me teh codez" question with no MCVE.

Yesterday, the bounty ended and my mod flag was declined:

flag

I flagged this question the same day the bounty was added. Why should I be penalized with a declined flag because a mod handled my flag 6 days after I flagged the question?

The timeline for the question can be found here.

Additionally, I see that the user was removed, so I suspect that the high number of upvotes on this low-quality post was due to voting fraud.

I will periodically flag bounty questions if they are blatantly off-topic or duplicates. Should I stop? I also mod flagged this former bounty question to be closed as a duplicate, it lists 4 potential duplicates in the question itself, and the accepted answer (with bounty awarded) is taken from one of the linked duplicates. The flag is still pending and I bet it will also be declined.

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    You do know that there is no penalty for a declined flag? That means you weren't penalized because it was declined. I'd suspect the mod didn't bother because there were no answers to the question and therefore the bounty would just be deducted from the poster's rep and go away.
    – Ken White
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:10
  • 33
    @KenWhite Penalization or not, this is the intent that matters. A declined flag means that you shouldn't have flagged. At the time the flag was raised, nobody would have known that no answers were going to come.
    – Tunaki
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:10
  • @Tunaki: So? A mod didn't agree that action was needed regarding a single flag. If you're getting far more accepted flags than declined (especially when the declined are few and far between), you're doing fine.
    – Ken White
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:14
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    @KenWhite You tell me, you're the one bringing penalization in the bucket.
    – Tunaki
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:16
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    @Tunaki: I don't know what that means. The poster said they had been penalized. I didn't bring anything in the bucket (whatever that's supposed to mean). Read the post again, and then my comment. If there is no penalty involved, the poster could not have been penalized by definition: Penalize: subject to some form of punishment..
    – Ken White
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:18
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    I mean penalized in the sense that my flag was declined. This question isn't about getting flag banned or having more helpful flags than declined flags, I'm asking why was a flag that I viewed as helpful declined seemingly due to the fact that it was not reviewed in a timely manor. If the mod answer is "hey, I didn't see when this was flagged, I reviewed it too late, I thought the flag was raised 1 hours before the bounty was to end" that's fine.
    – JAL
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:20
  • @JAL: The moderator's comment explains why the flag was declined; it wasn't felt that any action was needed as the bounty was about to expire.
    – Ken White
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:21
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    @KenWhite: And they would be wrong. Only diamond moderators can deal with bounty questions, they require a different response to flags than normal questions which are commonly declined with some variation on "wait for community moderation to run its course, don't bother the diamond mod"
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:23
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    @KenWhite Okay. No action was needed when the bounty was about to expire. So that means that 6 days earlier, you should have known that and not flag? Could you lend me your time-machine please? :)
    – Tunaki
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:24
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    In them goode olde days, the question would have been closed before the OP ever had a chance to put a bounty on it. Those days are gone, there are simply not enough SO users to deal with the flood by a factor of ~two. This does put moderators in a pretty awkward spot, the OP is going to yell pretty loudly when they act. For a good reason, nobody closed his question. They are counting on you yelling less loudly, like well-behaved responsible SO users normally do. If you have any good ideas how to get users to deal with this before it becomes a problem then do share. Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:42
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    @Tunaki: I didn't say any such thing. I never once even implied that the flag should not have been made. I would certainly have flagged. I'm just saying that it's one flag. Your time machine reference is irrelevant, as I never said the poster should not have flagged in the first place. I said at the time the moderator dealt with the flag, that moderator (right or wrong) felt it didn't require action. And sorry - my time machine is in the shop this week for routine maintenance. Check back next week and I'll see if it's free for a few hours. :-)
    – Ken White
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:53
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    @Ben: Where did I offer any opinion on whether that diamond mod was right or wrong? I'm quite aware of the diamond mod role in dealing with bountied questions; I've successfully had several closed by asking mods to remove the bounty. I simply pointed out that the poster was not penalized for the declined flag. Read my initial comment.
    – Ken White
    Commented Mar 2, 2016 at 23:55
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    This is why I do my best to resolve flags based on when they were raised, not when I see them. Unfortunately, depending on the content of the flag and the nature of the problem, some flags may go unhandled for so long that it's hard to determine if they had any merit even at the time they were raised.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 3:18
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    @JAL - I believe the intent was to let the bounty expire, in order to further penalize the sock puppet operator behind the question, but that would usually be explained in a helpful flag. I think the declined flag was an honest mistake, nothing more. As for your other flag, I just accepted that, because things turned out as you had flagged.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 4:45
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    @KenWhite: Declined flags will "count against you" from: meta.stackexchange.com/a/212511 (also 'local' meta.SO dupe: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/253117). If something 'counts against someone', then that (as it's stated) at least feels like a 'penalization' (to me). Or is this answer no longer true? Late edit: also, your 'flag weight' in the 'backend' goes down and Having too many declined flags leads to a warning, or even a temporary flag ban (src: meta.stackexchange.com/a/141400). OTOH we ignore 'disputed' as there is (currently) nothing 'penalizing' that count.
    – GitaarLAB
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 6:02

2 Answers 2

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Sorry, I should have marked your flag as accepted; you did the right thing flagging the post. Note that your other such flags have been marked accepted.

When processing a load of flags, you easily end up handling a flag the way you handle the required action. I declined to remove the bounty, not your flag and should have handled it that way.


Only after I handled the flag, did I notice that there was something not entirely right about the account that asked the question, and handled a voting fraud issue.

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  • +1, but it did decrease his flag-weight right? Side question (out of curiosity): Wouldn't it make more sense if the backend ordered by flag-weight ratio (declined to helpful) (and as second step the declined-count)?
    – GitaarLAB
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 7:35
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    @GitaarLAB: the OP has 1.5k helpful flags, this one decline is not going to affect their flag weight. Flag weight doesn't really matter that much anymore these days anyway.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 7:45
  • @GitaarLAB: I have no idea how the backend uses flag-weight to order flags at the moment.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 7:45
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    Was just going to ask that (regarding your second comment). All I 'have' is: The flag weight is decreased by declined flags from: meta.stackexchange.com/a/141400 (which to me 'sounds' like orderBy declined). It seems to me that 1.5K helpful versus (example) 10 declined is a whole different ball-park (in reliability) compared to 20 helpful and 10 declined.. It's hard to 'quantify' 'exactly' how 'bad' declined currently is (based on meta-posts). EDIT: might make a good meta-question if the 'historical view' regarding declined is out-dated.
    – GitaarLAB
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 7:50
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    Thanks Martijn, appreciate you taking the time to respond, handle the flag, and investigate the user.
    – JAL
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 14:56
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    @GitaarLAB - Flag weight was removed a while ago after it became more trouble than it was worth. Flags are not prioritized by user, and declined flags are only used to warn flaggers at a certain threshold and then temporarily block flags beyond another threshold. That last paragraph in the Meta.SE answer you link to wasn't even true at the time it was written, so I've removed it from that answer.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 16:33
  • @BradLarson: thanks for responding and checking. So if there is absolutely nothing 'counting against you' (not even silently in the 'back end' as psubsee2003 also stated 18 months later in the link you shared), shouldn't these other 'main' posts (like meta.stackexchange.com/a/212511 etc. which is ~2 years later than the post you just referenced) be changed as well? Better yet, an official meta-question stating there is guaranteed nothing at all "counting against you". I also just found this relevant thread: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/173878
    – GitaarLAB
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 16:57
  • @GitaarLAB: the 'relevant thread' is the current implementation. I've commented on Servy's post; if you have enough declined flags in the past week they'll certainly count against you in that you'll be flag-banned for a little while (between 1 and 7 days, depending on how often you flagged and when those flags were declined).
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 17:07
  • @MartijnPieters: I've upped that comment (and thanks). Is it a good idea if I (or someone else) makes a 'local' meta.SO question/dupe question (like 'how bad are declined flags anno 2016') so we have the actual up-to-date 'gospel' here as well?
    – GitaarLAB
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 17:33
  • @GitaarLAB: you could build a proposed faq post about flagging perhaps; it could be a companion post to What flags are automatically raised by the system? perhaps.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 17:36
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Since bounty questions are given extra visibility, it's especially important that they be moderated well.

You should continue to take appropriate actions, including flagging, on bounty questions.

If moderators don't like handling these, then they can propose an alternative technical solution, such as requiring 3x the close votes on a bountied question (instead of blocking them altogether). But ignoring or declining an accurate flag is not the correct moderator response, and in the existing system, problems with bountied questions do require moderator involvement.

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    Arguably, given the points you've made that bounty questions have extra visibility and need to be moderated well, flags on bounty questions should also be given extra visibility to the moderators and handled in a priority manner. It should have never happened that this flag went unprocessed for nearly a week on a high-visibility question.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 10:49
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    @CodyGray: extra flags on a post boost the flag priority for moderators; we only got the one flag on that post however, so it wasn't that highly visible.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Mar 3, 2016 at 14:19
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    @MartijnPieters I have another explanation for that: People just don't care to vote. It seems ineffective and the devs keep removing the flags that were used to clean up trash, then praying for non-closure ways to do pick up trash because people don't close. Commented Mar 4, 2016 at 13:48

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