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Boilerplate comments that say things like "read the FAQ", "show your work", etc are banned, I think we should ban the various comments about down voting as well. "downvoter explain", "why the downvote", "@Downvoter care to comment?" etc. Because it is proven that in practice, such comments are non-constructive regardless of the popular sentiment expressed by those that never down vote to begin with.

The goal is to force a little bit more effort into getting a specific thing they could improve. If they genuinely want constructive feedback this should not be considered an onerous requirement to put some thought and effort into asking for suggestions for improvement. Other heuristics like length and other things could weed out a majority of the low effort complaining for complaining sake comments and still encourage people to ask for constructive feedback.

They just want to complain will just have one more thing to complain about, no fixing them so why try?

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    While your seething tone is enough to boil water for tea, I find myself wholly agreeing with this...
    – Makoto
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 15:23
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    Why the downvotes? :(
    – E_net4
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 15:26
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    @JarrodRoberson Yeah, just saying that there are enough different wordings of the comment (with the same basic premise) that trying to ban all of them may not be feasible. You may need to prevent posting of the few most common variations, and then add a few new keywords to the one-flag-delete list to cover the rest.
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 15:28
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    @Servy - yeah, simple detection of any variation of the word downvoter and comment, explain, or reason and a prompt that that is not allowed or making them single vote removable would go a long ways to make the site better. Every one of these comments is a passive aggressive attempt at public shaming at best and in many peoples opinion is the worst kind of violation of the "Be Nice" policy.
    – user177800
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 15:36
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    𝒟𝑜𝓌𝒩𝓋𝑜𝒯𝑒𝑅 care to comment?
    – Mysticial
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 15:38
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    The link you posted as evidence that these comments are non-constructive... the top answer argues that they are, indeed, constructive? meta.stackoverflow.com/a/252910/3033053 Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 15:43
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    general consensus is not really valid on the internet, and empirical evidence says it they are not.
    – user177800
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 15:44
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    @JarrodRoberson TBH, that sounds like something you should either publish or maybe even try to sell as a product. AFAICT, this is a hard problem that nobody but you is claiming to have solved. Can it even detect ASCII art? (not that it applies to SO comments)
    – Mysticial
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 16:04
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    Not sure if my SQL is perfect, but the most common comments containing the text "downvote" are mostly for idownvotedbecau.se comments. That, and a bunch of variations on "why the downvote"
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 16:05
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    I feel like noting that whatever is done here either needs to not apply to meta, or be adjusted to account for the fact that meta will often be talking about votes in ways that are actually appropriate.
    – Servy
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 16:18
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    @duplode There's definitely a lot of ways to say "downvoter" without actually using the word "downvoter" in whatever unicode or phonetic forms assuming that Jarrod does have 100% detection rate for them. "Person who made my score go down.", "User who made the number next to my post decrease.", "You who clicked on the triangle that's below the number.", "Hey buddy, the one who has an orange arrow below a grey arrow."
    – Mysticial
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 18:39
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    @duplode - that is kind of the point, How can I improve my question? is enough without the word downvote. Regardless, longer phrases like your examples should indicate a more thoughtful request than the snarky passive aggressive "downvoter explain" which would be more constructive. Maybe even suggest "How can I specifically make my question more answerable?", effort in effort out.
    – user177800
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 18:43
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    consider adjusting the proposal with some length limit for banned comments, similarly to how it is done for banning "+1" comments (on a related note @duplode I wouldn't mind if comments like in your example were blocked: "I see this post has been downvoted. How can I improve it?" is way too trivial, shows no effort and looks quite superfluous)
    – gnat
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 19:03
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    Wait, you're using a question on which the consensus (as shown by votes) is clearly "These comments are constructive" to argue that "These comments are not constructive"? Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:23
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    Why the upvotes? upvoter please explain???
    – JK.
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 22:32

3 Answers 3

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Because it is proven that in practice, such comments are non-constructive. regardless of the popular sentiment expressed in the most up voted answer to that question.

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. If you disagree with the "popular sentiment," you have to explain why. You can't just categorically state that it's wrong and then treat that as an absolute fact.

Asking the reasons for a downvote is entirely reasonable unless the post is pure gibberish or otherwise blatantly worthless. It's the only way a person can get better at writing questions and answers.

If they genuinely want constructive feedback this should not be considered an onerous requirement to put some thought and effort into asking for suggestions for improvement.

If I get downvoted, and I don't know why I was downvoted, how am I supposed to "put more effort" into my comment asking why? Should I pad it out with a sob story about how my dog died and I was having a bad day, and that's why I must have written something badly that caused you to downvote my post? Because that just seems like it would add noise. I don't see how it would make things materially better.

Or is it just the two-word phrase "downvoter explain" that you disapprove of? Frankly, I don't understand why anyone would care one way or the other about that. Unlike (for example) the "what have you tried" epidemic that got nuked a while ago, there is generally only one person who posts these comments for any given post, namely the person who got downvoted. We don't see massive piles of comments on a single post unless they get into an argument with someone else.

If one of these disagreements turns into a huge thread, sure, flag that and the mods will delete it or migrate it to chat. Otherwise, it's not worth having a separate policy for these comments.

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    I personally don't ask anymore why people down vote, people down vote for the most random things. IE, they don't like the language you asked about, or they just felt like it, etc. Asking people to justify their votes where they already haven't just adds unneeded noise to an already noisy stack. on the movies stack i tend to flag these sorts of comments as "no longer needed" as they are overly chatty
    – DForck42
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:25
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    @DForck42: You obviously have every right to do that. But why do you care one iota whether people "clutter" their own posts with a single comment?
    – Kevin
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:26
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    The desire to ask about the down votes is palpable.
    – Jake Reece
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:27
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    In most cases where i respond to such a comment, it rarely ever results in any form of improvement to the post or useful discussion. But i'm of course just 1 data point.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:32
  • @KevinB: In most cases where people post comments of any kind, it rarely results in any form of improvement (and "useful discussion" is not the purpose of comments).
    – Kevin
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:33
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    i mean, it is, if said "useful discussion" is for the purpose of improving the post.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:34
  • @KevinB: In several years on this site, I think I've seen that happen once or twice as a result of a "useful discussion" such as the one which we are having now.
    – Kevin
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:35
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    From my experience, it is not most, not half and not some: almost every time I have responded to a request for a reason it was not constructive: The OP just aggressively defends their current question instead of addressing the issue. I now read these sorts of comments as "I'm angry I was downvoted and want to argue with someone about why my post is great as is. Anyone willing?" Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:45
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    Hey, let's all just take a step back and keep in mind that all downvotes occur because Tim lost his keys...
    – cs95
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:46
  • @TemporalWolf - that is the majority of the cases in practice when the comment is downvoter explain or other terse passive aggressive comments. They just want someone to rail against, they want a name and are completely unconcerned about the reason.
    – user177800
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 23:26
  • when a downvote is unjustified/unexplained, you generally get some counter upvotes because other users also think it's unfair. So downvoting for mysterious reasons and not explaining them backfires, generating pity/counter upvotes. Downvoting a badly formatted/overcomplex solution often goes without saying. Commented Apr 24, 2018 at 6:49
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    'It's the only way a person can get better at writing questions and answers' - has the help/tour been offline, then? Commented Apr 24, 2018 at 7:47
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    @MartinJames People aren't perfect. They can read the entire help section and tour and still write an answer that someone else thinks is bad or needs work. We don't have any control over how other people react. That's why successful communication is important in the success of a population.
    – TylerH
    Commented Apr 24, 2018 at 16:53
4

In vast majority of the cases where I asked what prompts downvotes on my question/answer, I received honest feedback and advice explaining how to fix the question, or at least what's wrong with it.

Your proposal to ban a feature that is helpful by consensus and by my experience seems absolutely unfounded from my perspective. I think you should have brought some hard data supporting your stance before even proposing this idea.

So, the reasons not to ban:

  • From my anecdotal experience these comments can help improve posts, as they signal to other users viewing the post that you do care about improving it
  • The consensus in the linked question is overwhelmingly against your idea
  • As indicated in comments, this is hard or even impossible to implement
  • We already have enough backlogs in review, no need to create another queue

Reasons to ban:

  • Please edit your question to add some?

And, I'd like to stress once more: If you stress that general consensus is invalid, you need to back that opinion with hard data.

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    Can you provide examples where this occurred to your posts?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:46
  • I don't really know how to search comments network-wide, and even if I knew how to do that, I'm not sure if I'd remember all of the wording variations that I used. Regardless, my experience is not the only point of this answer - it's actually the least relevant, since it's so subjective. Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:48
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    They're in your profile. I've been through about a years worth of comments so far and have found one
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 23, 2018 at 21:48
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    @KevinB beat me to it; I am not seeing any evidence of your claims of 100% positive feedback either. So you need to back up your claim with evidence, not that there seems to be any. Finding people complaining and attacking about down votes when people give a reason in a comment is easy on just the front page any given hour of the day. People actually making changes because of them, practically impossible.
    – user177800
    Commented Apr 24, 2018 at 15:37
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    @JarrodRoberson I am active across the network, not just on SO. Tell me how to search the comments and I will make some pretty graph. Also I said majority, not 100% - the fact that you're intentionally misinterpreting what I said makes me doubt that you're interested in finding any data at all. Commented Apr 24, 2018 at 17:49
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    @TomášZato have at it: data.stackexchange.com/meta/query/151786/…
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 24, 2018 at 19:46
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Because it is proven that in practice, such comments are non-constructive regardless of the popular sentiment expressed in the most up voted answer to that question.

Your answer that you linked to currently has a -3 score and the best answer there has a score of 275 and disagrees with your position. I think you should address their points. I don't see that you've done that.

I'm unconvinced this is a good idea.

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