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Currently, comment threads are displayed in full underneath every candidate's nomination.

That makes the page very long, and it makes it harder to discover at a glance who is running. Talk about a wall of text.

Also, the current system of hiding comments after a certain breakoff point is unfair. At the moment, for example, there's one candidate for whom the last displayed comment is a very negative outlier:

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Having a negative (or positive) comment as the last visible one, hiding any rebuttals or comments by other users isn't fair: it's is likely to be only comment they read for a lot of users who just glance at the nominations, and bias their view of the candidate without getting the full picture.

How about hiding all comments by default, leaving only the nomination texts, and a Show X comments link?

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    Seems like generally a good idea. It's already becoming tedious to scroll between all the nominations, and we haven't even hit nearly what we're going to hit come end of the nomination phase.
    – Magisch
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 9:34
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    Not sure I agree with this. Don't get me wrong, I can see the point of it, as it does take a fair bit of time to read up about the candidates, but I find the comments the most important part. The candidates nomination piece is simply their prepped and polished piece of work, which for me gives very little indication as to what they'll be like as a mod. People unearthing bad interactions or saying they've only experienced good interactions give me a much better understanding of the candidate. Maybe to combat the wall of text have an initial post showing each nominee and their stats?
    – sr28
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 14:23
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    @sr28: There's stack app that has info about each nominee and their stats. Now, considering this example, I am a little biased, but I'm in favor of this change, exactly for the reasons listed in the suggestion. A comment like that just doesn't represent the candidate, no matter who the candidate is.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 14:57
  • @Cerbrus - I'd disagree about comments like that (and others) being hidden. In this case I read more comments and clicked on the question listed by the same user that was an example of your tone. I found it useful in so much that ultimately I didn't agree with the comment that you wouldn't make a good mod BUT that it did reaffirm your stance that you can sometimes be blunt. I found myself agreeing with Pekka in this instance. Not seeing the comments and that type of comment in particular would make it less likely for me to find out about a candidate.
    – sr28
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 15:03
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    @sr28: I understand year reasoning, but I'm not sure how many users put the same effort into figuring out the truth behind such claims. Ideally, if one is voting, one will be reading through the candidates' answer / comments, any way. Then hiding them by default does no harm. That said, "ideally" doesn't always apply.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 15:06
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    K@sr28 but it would take one only one click to see all the comments. Like you already have to click the link to see them all.
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 15:11
  • @Cerbrus - well...that's partly why I suggest an initial 'short' version of the all the nominees in the top post. That means anyone who isn't interested in the comments doesn't have to scroll past the top post really. However, it's the more 'juicy' comments that hint at different behaviours suggested by the candidate that are likely to intrigue users into looking further. Hiding them would take this appeal away and do exactly what we don't want, almost encourage people to vote purely on the polished nominees adverts.
    – sr28
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 15:12
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    @sr28 we're not showing the juicy comments right now though. We're showing a completely arbitrary collection of the comments that happened to be posted first. Showing the juicy comments would mean showing only the highest voted ones - but they even removed comment voting this year so it's clear that's not desired.
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 15:13
  • @Pekka - To be fair, if someone is a good candidate a negative answer is unlikely to sit at the bottom of the cut off list very long and a positive / neutral one is likely to spend much more time there. If there are lots of negative comments, 1 of them being at the bottom of the cut off, isn't that an indication of the quality of the candidate?
    – sr28
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 15:13
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    @sr28 it is completely random whether the first x comments that happen to be posted first are negative or positive, and it is impossible to form a picture from them. That's why it's unfair, and I think my example shows that. People come and go here 24/7. As we speak a lot of users are still asleep, or already going to bed, while for me it is the early afternoon. It's completely random. As said, if you want to show real trends in comment threads, you'd have to sort by votes.
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 15:15
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    @sr28 that's one very good way to react to the comment. The other one is much more likely IMO: you get the vibe that the guy's a jerk, and discard him immediately. When you don't know the candidate, the comments are pretty much the only thing to go with (unless you're a really good citizen and check out their stats).
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 15:20
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    @sr28 As for 'juicy' comments, I wasn't thinking in terms of highest voted, more intriguing I don't disagree showing some of the comments lures you into checking them all out, but the downsides seem too steep
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 15:22
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    @Pekka - I take your point, and I suppose I must accept that I'm in the minority in this one. However, I can't help but feel that if someone has taken the time to go to the page and read up on the candidates you will do more than make a snap decision about someone based off 1 comment at the bottom of a list.
    – sr28
    Commented Nov 8, 2016 at 15:23
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    Pekka, in light of the scores in the primaries, don't you think that there is a bias introduced by the missing comments? With only sales pitches left, the mass of uninformed voters doesn't reflect at all the picture that the original nomination page painted. Of course my opinion of an unfit moderator candidate is surely biased and many won't agree with me, but I'd be surprised if you thought that the worst candidates got the least votes. Of course the fat lady's still on stage for days, but I'm mildly disturbed by the tendencies, and I think biased information sources can partly be blamed. Commented Nov 15, 2016 at 12:39
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    @AndrasDeak I'm wondering whether my suggestion is coming across the wrong way - by "hide the comments" I mean "hide them behind the 'see comments' link, reachable with 1 click". Whether the policy of hiding them completely during the primaries is a good idea, is a different question. I suppose it might make sense to at least provide a "switch to the other tab to see community discussion" link
    – Pekka
    Commented Nov 15, 2016 at 12:48

3 Answers 3

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Your example is very convincing, and while I came to this question expecting to downvote the FR with prejudice, I upvoted instead. Showing only an arbitrary window onto the comments really isn't a good way to do things, and, as pointed out in question comments, comment voting has been thoroughly disabled, so the usual mechanic that in principle makes comment collapsing functional on main site posts simply doesn't exist here.

That said, I don't think collapsing all comments is quite the solution; instead, that just means potential problems are hidden more effectively from semi-casual voters who aren't quite diligent enough to seek out all possible info. So I'd like to propose the opposite: show all comments on page load. This way, information is presented more fairly and thoroughly, as though someone were reading a voter's guide. (Albeit one without a page limit on the pro and con arguments.)

This does, of course, make navigation a bit more challenging, but There's A Stack App For That (which I did not write, but do use).

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  • I think this would certainly make it fairer. However, I'm not sure that's the core of the problem. I think the main problem is getting people to vote based on more than just a cursory glance. As such, this could actually have the opposite effect and put people off as they're faced with a lot more scrolling and reading.
    – sr28
    Commented Nov 9, 2016 at 9:58
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I think my main concern with this feature request is that people are effectively being encouraged to make a decision based solely on the nominees summaries. These are likely to be polished pieces of work and aimed to highlight only the good things they've done. It seems like you would agree with this based on your comment:

it's is likely to be only comment they read for a lot of users who just glance at the nominations...

This suggests that in your view not many people take the time to read much about the candidates and basically only read the summaries and 1 or 2 comments. Unfortunately, I think you're probably right.

I'm not sure the problem here lies in the displaying of comments as such however, but more in getting people to vote based on more than a cursory glance. I'd much rather people vote based off a candidates profile AND a handful of comments rather than the profile / summary alone.

How we get people to take more of an interest in the candidates is another question, and something I don't have a good answer for, maybe I'll post it. However, as it stands I'm not sure this feature request is the right way to handle 'fairness'. As I say, this will therefore push more in favour towards a candidates summary and score and less towards the follow on questions people ask. The comments IMO are more useful and help us find out more about each candidate above and beyond what they want you to know. If the majority of people only vote based on a glance then it would start to ask the question "Why have comments at all?" if ultimately we're going to hide them and therefore the majority of votes are cast without looking at them.

I agree with the sentiment of the request, as well as a couple of the reasons behind it, but if I think it's ultimately aimed at trying to make it 'fairer' I'm not sure this is the way to go about it.

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    "I'd much rather people vote based off a candidates profile AND a handful of comments rather than the profile / summary alone." I agree, but since people are inherently lazy, how do we make it as fair as we can? To me, collapsing all comments by default for all candidates seems fairer than showing an arbitrary comments that could be based on nothing at all.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Nov 9, 2016 at 10:53
  • @Cerbrus - I don't think this is making it fairer. If you think people are inherently lazy then surely you will see that this will make people vote based off a nominee's summary alone. This in itself is unfair, as a lot of what is said is a bit of waffle and some statistics. This would therefore put much more prominence on the statistics, which as highlighted in another question includes pre-requisites to be allowed to be a nominee. As such, the stats that aren't pre-requisites would make the difference and ultimately have a very skewed priority.
    – sr28
    Commented Nov 9, 2016 at 11:02
  • I'd argue that a candidate's statistics are a better basis to vote from, than an arbitrary comment about said candidate.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Nov 9, 2016 at 11:04
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    @Cerbrus - 1 comment yes, several comments I'd say no. Someone's stats only relate to their badges, which in turn don't really indicate fairness, patience, leading by example, how they handle difficult users / discussions etc. These are highlighted as the main criteria for a mod and something we can really only get a feel for through the comments and questions people ask. As such, I'd argue that the comments are more useful if all pre-requisites are met. Maybe that's the answer, include more pre-requisites so the stats are no longer needed?
    – sr28
    Commented Nov 9, 2016 at 11:12
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    In hindsight, the scores in the primary elections (where comments are entirely gone, and only self-serving sales pitches are left) clearly show that your fears were well-founded. Some of the most questionable candidates are nowhere near the bottom of the board. Very sad. Commented Nov 15, 2016 at 12:31
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While I understand the motivation behind your feature request, I don't agree with it.

That makes the page very long, and it makes it harder to discover at a glance who is running. Talk about a wall of text.

Comments are very important, having them displayed makes life easier for me. Sometimes I even go through the comments before I read the post itself, so hiding them doesn't seem like a good idea for me. I'd prefer to scroll a bit more while viewing the comments rather than having to click on each post to reveal the comments.

If it really annoys you, you can search for "candidate score" text in the page, and each occurrence will lead you to the next candidate :)

Also, the current system of hiding comments after a certain breakoff point is unfair. At the moment, for example, there's one candidate for whom the last displayed comment is a very negative outlier.

It's our responsibility to not judge users by only looking at the expanded comment. The "show X more comments" message is very clear and it should be very obvious to users that this comment is not necessarily representative.

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