43

I'm thinking that I have this down pat, but just in case...

Right now (behold, another temporal event), Bitbucket is having a bit of maintenance. Someone asked a question to figure out why their push was failing, and the net result of the answer is that it's on Atlassian's end.

What I'm thinking is appropriate:

  • Vote to close as "cannot be reproduced", considering in a few hours, this won't be reproducible
  • Downvote any "me too" answers
  • (Potentially) flag a moderator?

Is there anything else that I need to do? I'm looking in broad strokes here and not necessarily isolating this to a single event.

17
  • Oh, also, interestingly enough, that error message leaked two database tables that I'm sure Atlassian didn't intend to.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 2:14
  • 17
    Temporary, not temporal. Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 2:48
  • 24
    No; temporal is fine to use for this scenario.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 2:56
  • 12
    because it isn't eternal? Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 2:59
  • 2
    Why does this need closed as "cannot be reprodced". What about the next time Bitbucket has maintenance. Do we need a duplicate target? Or do we to have new questions asked? Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 3:07
  • 21
    @psubsee2003 I don't like where are you going. If twitter, apple et all fails temporally for some reason, you want a new question asked on SO? That will be relevant when? And how that help anybody anyways? Since the only answer is sit tight, they may fix it...
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 3:12
  • 6
    One of the only two questions I've ever asked was one I assumed to be a "temporal event". Feeling a bit guilty about it, I asked it anyway because I saw other users struggle with it and it wasn't getting diagnosed. Got all sorted out. Whaddayaknow, never saw that coming, the exact same problem is back right now it is failing again the exact same way. Never trust your time machine. Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 12:31
  • 3
    How do you know something is a temporal event before asking ? What if the sites hoster just got blown up/burned down and will never be able to fix the problem. Or will take several weeks/months to fix it ? I think that is something that concerns programmers and is a pratical problem with a clearcut solution. If the problem is no longer reproducable then close it. If you know it will no longer be reproducable in the future close it in the future unless it's a recurring problem. Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 18:38
  • 3
    "Temporal" is basically the time equivalent to "Spatial" as far as I'm concerned. If you want to be understood I suggest you use the word "temporary" rather than relying on some obscure definition most other dictionaries don't even list. Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 19:31
  • 1
    @HopefullyHelpful: How would we be able to help them if the service provider suffered some catastrophic event that took them out of the loop? All we could do is likely echo an (eventual) news post about it, which is the point when we cease giving an expert answer to becoming mirrors of information. Third party provider outages aren't our domain of problem.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 18, 2016 at 0:29
  • @HansPassant: While I see your point, I feel like there's a distinction to be made between a potential bug with a library and an issue with a service.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 18, 2016 at 0:31
  • I can see it now... a month from now... "External service was broken and now I've failed this review audit because I voted to close"
    – jdphenix
    Commented Jun 18, 2016 at 15:45
  • The term temporal can be easily found here Commented Jun 18, 2016 at 16:24
  • 1
    @ArneBurmeister nobody's claiming that the word doesn't exist. Just that is not a good fit here. All events are temporal. They all occur in the dimension of time. The distinguishing feature of the events the OP wants to discuss here is clearly that they are particularly transient and temporary. Commented Jun 18, 2016 at 17:28
  • 3
    I think we misunderstood, my link was meant a little sarcastic as I am on your side and felt the usage is uncommon here but more common in other areas like Star Trek Commented Jun 18, 2016 at 17:38

3 Answers 3

23

We've closed and deleted quite a few of these over the years. Sometimes that's worked out ok; freak events conspire to cause a problem that never returns again...

...And sometimes it just means we gotta do it again in another month. Thus, I've come to be somewhat sympathetic to two other options:

  1. Close it as a duplicate.

    This only works if the duplicate-target is recognizably the same problem. Unfortunately in the case you cite, the only duplicates folks have been able to identify are clearly intended for folks using self-hosted repositories, and the answers don't appear to make a whole lot of sense to readers who are just trying to use Bitbucket.

  2. Edit it such that it can be useful again in the future, should the transient event that gave rise to it this time happen again. (and then, next time, #1)

    Obviously, that means adding enough information such that it makes sense to those folks from the future who might stumble upon it. I've tried to do this for the example you referenced.

At least we aren't getting quite so many of these for Facebook anymore.

7
  • This gives some peace of mind about the whole matter. It would make sense to have this as a canonical for this specific question, but I suppose to play Devil's Advocate, there is the "slippery slope" in which, all of a sudden, we have the same third-party service failing in unrelated ways, with the common answer being, "Go check their status page." How specific do we need to get? If say, for instance, Bitbucket was indeed DDoSed and errors similar to (but not the same as) this instance came up, would it make sense to close it as the dupe then? I'm thinking "yes", but want to be sure.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 21:43
  • Probably, yeah. In this case, I'm pretty sure the only thing that can cause this error is massive fail on Bitbucket's part; a misconfigured client might produce superficially similar errors but without the critical detail (which, for once, was actually in the title to begin with!) What, specifically, happened over in Bitbucket land becomes irrelevant then, since everyone who cares about the answer is stuck in the same boat of waiting for a status update regardless.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 21:46
  • We get one monthly about Apple's store. But, on the other hand, these questions normally tend to be a waste of moderators time (moderators here being any user capable of deleting answers) because the "me too" and all other yadda that those attracts. Are we seriously going to allow this mess here each time a service goes under?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 22:14
  • 1
    I would've expected that to be auto-protected long before it got up to 20? answers. I guess none of them were deleted before you stepped in.
    – Mysticial
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 22:37
  • @Mysticial not only it wasn't autoprotected, if Shog didn't step in there would be +20 answers on the LQRQ waiting for people to review them. And if the consensus were "recommend deletion" they would have to wait for moderators to handle the flags one by one, since there were several answers with score >0.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 22:53
  • Only thing I can figure is that folks were earning enough rep from them before I deleted them that they didn't qualify as new users, @Mysticial - so that kept the newer auto-protect from kicking in. Then of course by the time I started deleting them the question got closed, which prevented auto-protect for another little while. Anyway... You can probably understand why I'd really prefer to have a dup-sink here if this comes up again.
    – Shog9
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 22:55
  • @Braiam I flagged many of those answers for deletion. Commented Jun 17, 2016 at 7:27
23

A question about BitBucket is about software tools commonly used by programmers, and is "a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development" to quote the Help Center (as opposed to a question on how to use Microsoft Word).

Based on the information in this meta question, I couldn't conclude the error is something that could only happen with bitbucket, as opposed to git in general. So I can't categorise it as irreproducible.

The way to deal with this is to post an answer that the error message means that there's an error on the server side, not on the client side.

Use protection to prevent useless answers and comments by low-rep users.

6
  • 2
    Protection doesn't prevent comments. BTW, there's already a general question about the git hook that fails.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 3:08
  • Good call on the protection - I don't think I had noticed it while the thing was going on but I'll seek it in the future - but I respectfully disagree that this isn't exclusive to Bitbucket. The user had specifically mentioned that they were using the service and had specifically called out their attempt to push with that service. Had this been a private Git repo, I could see this being an acceptable question (and I believe a dupe exists somewhere of it), but considering that it's third party and will ultimately be resolved, there's not much we can really do except echo their uptime page.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 3:26
  • 2
    Also, I'm looking for general advice on what to do in these kinds of scenarios. The fact that two high-rep users have conflicting advice in this instance is indicative that we need something authoritative to describe what to do when this happens. Actually, I may look at archives around last March to see if there was anything when GitHub suffered a DDoS attack on a Sunday.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 3:28
  • 5
    The fact that the error message is probably unique to BitBucket and a particular configuration problem of theirs which we hope will never recur makes this suitable for closing IMHO. But the fact that it looks like a Git problem makes me - somewhat unhappily - conclude that without 20/20 hindsight, there was no way for the OP to know that this was not a Git question. I voted to reopen when it was closed, so I'm feeling I should not vote to close again, although that's how I have been swayed in the light of the emerging information here.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 7:26
  • 3
    @tripleee Questions closed as typos are pretty much always closed after the real cause, which was not known to the OP, is uncovered. Dupes are closed even if they are very hard to search for, due to weird terminology or a non-obvious hidden link. So it's not really all that unusual to close a question that the OP sincerely and reasonably thought could be asked, but that turns out to have a close reason that's applicable. Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 10:17
  • @NathanTuggy You convinced me. Voting to close.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 10:24
16

Close them. Fast. Downvote them. Harshly. Users need to understand that

WE ARE NOT CUSTOMER SUPPORT OF ANY SERVICE, NOR A STATUS PAGE

In this specific case it isn't a problem you need a programmer for. The average Joe user that needs to push/pull from the repository isn't even "a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development". This question is the equivalent to a bug report, something only the service provider can really fix.

7
  • 15
    The question in question has nothing to do with a service. It's a question about git. In this case it's because bitbucket is down - but does an answer dictate whether or not a question should be closed? It's an error thrown by git, which can be caused by many reasons, and is not something related to bitbucket itself.
    – Rob Mod
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 2:42
  • 4
    @Rob "DETAIL: User was holding a relation lock for too long." Is not a git message but some internal database message. How is that not a bitbucket issue?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 2:47
  • 9
    Because it's displaying an error based on a post-hook script. That message can come from anywhere. What if it was a self hosted site? The mere fact that bitbucket caused the issue this time doesn't mean no other repository will exhibit the same behavior, even if the messages don't match exactly.
    – Rob Mod
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 2:50
  • 4
    @Rob the whole title was not about the git hook... it was about the database message. And even if it were, the cause is not something users can help about, they need to contact the repository owner anyways, which is in this case BitBucket.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 2:57
  • I don't understand the sentence "In this specific case it isn't a problem you need a programmer. ". Is it missing a word? Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 21:43
  • 1
    @AndrewGrimm Yes, you could read it as "[...] a problem for which you need a programmer" or "[...] a problem you need a programmer for".
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 21:48
  • @AndrewGrimm are you deliberately ignoring the "and is" immediately after the sentence you are quoting? The whole point of the sentence is to differentiate between stuff only programmers will ever see and what everyone else can see. There are stuff that are commonly used by programmers, like vim, notepad, internet explorer, yet they are not specific to programming. That's why that line is there.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 22:50

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