107

How was this edit ever accepted? Am I going crazy? (Don't answer that)

In what world was this an appropriate edit? I know it includes code from the codepen that the OP posted, but what the OP did was only add the relevant code to the question, as they should. The edit more than quadruples the code included.

Down with this sort of thing

How do we stop this kind of thing?

16
  • 18
    haha, at least it's on record that I agree with you! Glad I was one who voted to reject this edit. Irony is... I failed an audit just a minute later because I wanted to flag something for migration to Code Review. Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 1:15
  • 110
    Some ideas. 1. Stop giving shiny badges for revisions or stop giving shiny hats for those badges. 2. When a suggested edit is rollbacked, punish the suggester and the robo approvers.
    – Oriol
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 2:16
  • 1
    Well, I checked the Codepen link; the code checks alright. The problem was that the editor removed the "tl;dr" part of the code.
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 4:31
  • 3
    @Braiam but there was no need for all that code to be in the question in any case. The OP actually had a decent MCVE
    – worldofjr
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 4:33
  • 3
    That can not be... I couldn't easily even make it work the behavior without copying some mater from the complete code... and even after copying the relevant snippets, I didn't see the issue. That or my lack of knowledge about anjularjs is showing...
    – Braiam
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 5:05
  • 17
    Another thing: Whether or not it is ok to include all that code in the question, the edit summary should at least have mentioned where the code comes from...
    – honk
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 8:06
  • 3
    And the leading "Im" in the question text should be fixed, probably to just "I" or perhaps "I'm" with other changes ('-ing' instead of '-ed' verb endings, etc). Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 14:39
  • 1
    I agree. The user seems to be doing some strange things with edits recently. Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 20:35
  • Questions seeking debugging help ("why isn't this code working?") must include the desired behavior, a specific problem or error and the shortest code necessary to reproduce it in the question itself. - It feels like this is the flag I use most, so it's not exactly crazy that someone felt that all the code from a site in a link should be added to the question. (Bolding noise instead of removing it is odd though.)
    – BSMP
    Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 4:52
  • 1
    I always thought the banning from editing/flagging/whatever-else-ing is a quite successful disciplinary action until I read this...
    – Ian
    Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 12:52
  • @Oriol yes, maybe i'm not on meta enough, but it seems since winter bash started there have been more questions than normal about how to handle large numbers of bad edits (and singling out individual users)
    – br3w5
    Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 17:35
  • Possibly relevant: it appears OP then went back and deleted all the added code. Commented Dec 30, 2015 at 1:03
  • 1
    @KyleStrand I reverted the edit back to what the OP had originally, yes.
    – worldofjr
    Commented Dec 30, 2015 at 1:05
  • @worldofjr Oh, I misread the edit history; I thought the OP had done that. Commented Dec 30, 2015 at 1:37
  • This is a particularly relevant issue in light of the proposed changes to code licensing differences. (Of course, it absolutely applies even with the current licensing, too. The change only introduces some new complexities.) OP may well have posted some code elsewhere in order to avoid CC-BY-SA, and posted only the minimal amount on SO, with supporting code posted elsewhere. If an OP posts a question like this pre-2016-02-01 and approves this kind of edit (not the case here, this went through the review queue) with the mindset "I guess community standards say it needs more to be ... Commented Dec 30, 2015 at 14:07

5 Answers 5

14

The currently most upvoted answer says:

On site snippets are a good thing to have. We probably shouldn't reject these edits outright, just take a second to improve the edit by clicking the check box in the bottom on the snippet editor [to make them hidden by default.]

I posted a comment on the answer, too, but I think it merits an answer. I think that we have to reject these edits, as they can't be correctly approved by anyone except the original poster. I think that's especially the case when a poster has used a third party paste site as in this example. Editors don't have a way to know why the poster posted part of the code in the question and part in a third-party site. Maybe they were only comfortable with licensing a little bit of the code for Stack Overflow, and left the rest offsite to avoid licensing issues. (If that means the question doesn't include a MVE, then it can be downvoted, closed, etc.)

What this edit is doing is presuming that because OP asked a question on Stack Overflow that concerns some code that OP wrote, and includes some of that code, that OP presumed to license all of that code for Stack Overflow. Suppose you're working on a library licensed under terms not compatible with SO's licensing. You decide to ask a question about a snippet from it. Then someone realizes that that snippet is from your project on GitHub. Certainly that whole project doesn't become licensed under CC-BY-SA.

(The issue here doesn't relate to the upcoming licensing changes, but the upcoming changes do add some complexities. If we do accept these kinds of edits, then since OP's code was written pre-2016-02-01 and the question was posted pre-2016-02-01, what license would this code be under?)

That said, I think that this kind of edit is an improvement, but it's one that only OP can approve because of the licensing issues. Maybe we need a button for "suggest edit to OP" that skips the review queue. Unfortunately, that seems like a way to spam OPs.

2
  • 2
    Codepens are MIT licensed. Yes, in technicality licensing is an issue... but the OP has the ability to rollback such an edit. Of course, IANAL.
    – hichris123
    Commented Dec 31, 2015 at 0:09
  • I spent a few moments on the codependency site and didn't find the licensing information, but that does make this case a bit easier. That said, nor all paste sites are mit licensed, and this still needs to be OP's call IMO. Commented Dec 31, 2015 at 0:38
46

Here's the long and the short of it...

Having the complete example in a snippet can be helpful. Third party sites go down etc. etc...

In cases where there's a lot of extraneous code or filler content you can, and sometimes should, include a collapsed snippet like this:

Example js:

console.log('made you look'); // be sure to show the relevant stuff just hide the rest 

console.log('made you look');
p {
  color: red;
}
<p>Just filler, nothing to see here... move along...</p>


To more directly address your question...

On site snippets are a good thing to have. We probably shouldn't reject these edits outright, just take a second to improve the edit by clicking the check box in the bottom on the snippet editor:

enter image description here


Edit to address edited question...

It does look like a lot of the other suggested edits are pretty terrible, but I would caution you to avoid singling out a specific user here on Meta.

In cases where you see a specific user suggesting a lot of bad edits:

  1. Do your part and reject or improve the edits where possible.
  2. Drop a custom Moderator attention flag on one of the user's posts asking them to take a look. Something like:

    This user seems to be suggesting an awful lot of bad edits, they may need some guidance or a temporary edit suspension. See: https://stackoverflow.com/users/1947286/apaul34208?tab=activity&sort=suggestions

8
  • 6
    I agree especially because CodePen doesn't maintain history (unlike JS Fiddle). Having the full code in question is not bad but the person should have followed this approach.
    – Harry
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 14:29
  • +1. This is basically the position espoused by blog.stackoverflow.com/2014/09/… Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 16:42
  • " I would caution you to avoid singling out a specific user here on Meta" - why? That's what meta is for. Don't pollute an unrelated post with flags. As a moderator, that is very hard to parse. Until they add a flag button to the review screen, bringing it up on meta is the right thing to do.
    – corsiKa
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 16:47
  • 7
    @corsiKa Publicly naming and shaming on Meta happens, but it certainly isn't encouraged: meta.stackexchange.com/a/159210/217863
    – apaul
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 16:53
  • 2
    @corsiKa I do agree that a flag option in the review queue would be useful though...
    – apaul
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 16:59
  • 2
    @corsiKa Not to belabor the point but here's another one: meta.stackexchange.com/a/170119/217863
    – apaul
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 17:02
  • I stand corrected, although still disagree with the decision.
    – corsiKa
    Commented Dec 28, 2015 at 17:17
  • 3
    "We probably shouldn't reject these edits outright" Of course we should! OP licensed a little bit of code for sharing on the site by posting it. OP might not have wanted to license all of that other code in the same way. It seems like a terrible precedent to say "someone wrote this code and posted a little bit of it on Stack Overflow, so they must have licensed the whole work under CC-BY-SA." By all means, we can suggest these edits to the OP who can make that decision, but we can't go and re-license other portions of their code! Commented Dec 30, 2015 at 14:11
5

I believe I have a solution that will in some way go to help out this situation without changing the current set up on Stack Overflow (although that doesn't mean I don't think changes could be made) - although it is more of a method of preventing crazy edits in the first place, rather than stopping others accepting them.

If you come across a suggested edit which you believe to be crazy enough that it should never be accepted, then always Reject and Edit (and fix any problems with the post), and leave the editor, and anyone else who comes back to the edit review, in no doubt the edit was crazy. The next time the user edits they get a message saying they should view their previous rejected edit, and this also goes towards any edit bans.

(H/T to Shog9♦ for pointing out this proceedure in this answer to another question!)

0
-2

To punish robo-reviewing (as suggested by Oriol) how's about this:

After a review that a user approved gets rolled back:

  • Remove 20* edits from their total review count.
  • Bench them from the review queue for a few days.

*This actually seems too low to me.


Edit: Note this shouldn't be the affect of an OP rolling-back a post (which is too frequent) but from a moderator (3ker) doing so...

13
  • 2
    hmmmm... some OPs just don't want ANYONE to edit their post and rollback anything. Doesn't that leave some people open to issues when someone blindly rollbacks like that? (I don't have specifics as for numbers, so it's possible that this is a non-issue)
    – Patrice
    Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 17:49
  • 2
    @Patrice: I've had my own edits rolled back at least two times on different sites when the poster clearly just didn't get how SE editing works. That doesn't count edits that were rolled back in a less blatant fashion, which I can't easily track. I can only suppose that the edits I've approved, of a similar order of magnitude, would end up with a similar or worse rate of rollbacks, although I have no way of knowing for sure. And I really don't think I deserve to get stuck with 10+ days of review banning accordingly. Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 17:52
  • @NathanTuggy definitely with you on that. I just don't edit THAT much (or my experience has been different enough that the number doesn't seem SUPER high), so I wasn't sure how present that was. No one deserves to be banned like that for a user who just doesn't understand, or want to understand
    – Patrice
    Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 17:54
  • @Patrice: Yeah, I've got somewhere over 3k edits network-wide and about 2.4k edit reviews on SO, so at that scale some crazy stuff starts happening. Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 17:58
  • @NathanTUggy then maybe you have the numbers I've been hinting at. How frequent is "I will rollback ANYTHING on my post, BECAUSE" in your opinion?
    – Patrice
    Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 18:00
  • @Patrice: At least two incidents I can remember because the poster got huffy. Some unknown but significantly higher incidence where they just quietly fumed and rolled back, so probably anywhere from 0.1 to 1% of reasonable edits. Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 18:01
  • @NathanTuggy then yeah, at 1%, I consider this way too high for such a feature
    – Patrice
    Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 18:15
  • @Patrice You're right having the OP roll-back count against you like this is not a good idea - it should only be from moderators who roll-back. Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 20:04
  • @NathanTuggy yea, I've had that happen several times too. Mostly OPs feel like they own their question and dislike it being touched. Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 20:08
  • @AndyHayden hmmmm what do you mean here by moderators? Diamonds, or higher rep?
    – Patrice
    Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 20:16
  • @Patrice as edited above, 3kers. They've been given power to make edits without entering the queue, right? That's not to say some people may misuse roll-back but that's DEFINITELY the exception. Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 20:35
  • @AndyHayden Fair enough (you mean 2Kers though).
    – Patrice
    Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 21:31
  • @Patrice I think if you're a native English speaker then it's certainly acceptable to not want anyone editing your question...especially since half the editors AND reviewers actually aren't native English speakers..
    – Hasen
    Commented Mar 16, 2022 at 1:28
-5

Although this doesn't address OP's concern in all cases, I'd say we can reduce things like this by having relevant tag-rep be required for users (and/or intelligent robots) who are reviewing suggested edits that alter code. *

I think there are already a few things in place along these lines (e.g. reviewers get to pick what tags they watch and I'd hope that's mostly for areas they're knowledgeable in), but perhaps a way to exact greater scrutiny on code-related edits — such as (tougher) audits for said — is in order. I don't think saying that is unreasonable given this particular site is indeed supposed to be all about code.

I considered the code-edits-are-more-special first when on the other side of the same coin that OP brings up; I've had a few suggested edits turned down by users with *zero* apparent experience in the relevant language for the edited question/answer, despite the suggestions being for fairly tame changes akin to explicitly including public or private in order to make examples more compatible across language-versions and/or more explicit.

In OP's case, it looks like 1 of the 3 approvers of the edit only has a single point of frontend cred, which in this or similar cases might've made the difference.

* I considered qualifying this with edits that "significantly alter code" but I decided against this, considering the nature of the vast majority of programming languages being sensitive to changes of even just a few characters.

1
  • Reputation in the tags was completely irrelevant in that case. Commented Dec 29, 2015 at 20:30

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