92

Just curious, I cannot help but notice the political implications of the timely color change of the Stack Overflow logo and the Supreme Court decision in Obergefell v. Hodges. Is there any policy that governs the posting of politically motivated content on Stack Overflow. I have no problem with it, but I would like to know if there is some guideline on what is permissible.

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    Also, related (but not a dupe as this concerns the policy while the link concerns just the why of it being changed): meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/297859/…
    – Kendra
    Commented Jun 26, 2015 at 20:54
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    The policy is if the SO staffs has a stance on that matter then it is permitted otherwise it is not. Commented Jun 26, 2015 at 21:40
  • 3
    @William Ouch, that makes me so much more reluctant to post on here. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 11:21
  • 4
    @Jonathan: it's also not even close to true, but I don't want that to spoil William's party :-). You should continue to post on Stack Overflow as often as you were a week ago.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:04
  • 5
    There was a similar controversy when they paid tribute to Steve Jobs on the event of his death. I believe the idea was initially popular with staff and the community, but it set a difficult precedent as other important tech figures' lives couldn't be/weren't similarly honoured, and many felt Jobs was not an appropriate choice. It seems the conclusion was "Hmm, well we don't regret doing it, but let's not do things like this again". I imagine they'll reach a similar conclusion with this: no regrets, but let's not do things like this again. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:47
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    @user568458 In my mind that was enough of a precedent not to repeat this, but at least not to repeat with such a politically charged issue :S Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 17:52
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    @halfer I have a strong suspicion that if the Supreme Court decision were somehow thrown out tomorrow there wouldn't be a celebration in the StackOverflow icon. The truth is this was tied to the founders political views. And it is woefully saddening that it has turned against a minority who may disagree with the decision on any grounds: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/298004/2642059 And I hate to see any political agenda overshadow the community of this site :( Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 17:59
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    Ah, gotcha - that's where we disagree, then @Jonathan. In my view, overturning old discriminations, and making people equal before the law, isn't as political as setting them up in the first place. Thanks for your thoughts on the matter.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 18:33
  • 5
    @halfer I think your comment perfectly makes my point. You agree with the political position of the site owners, and thus feel at liberty to share your position without fear. Others like Ben Voigt who disagree must make a defense of their position. The community is thereby damaged and it's the community, not the owners that I'm committed to, so I am disheartened. I will not post my opinion of the ruling here because it is not the right venue. My wish is that the owners of the site had the same commitment to the entire community. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 23:18
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    @Jonathan: it sounds like you believe that people opposed to gay marriage are a newly oppressed minority. If so, it is possible that you are not aware of precisely how bold that claim really is.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 23:32
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    (Side note: I can cheerfully inform you that my view about marriage equality would not change, and I would not be in the slightest bit afraid of sharing it, if Stack Exchange took the opposite view).
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 23:34
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    @halfer I'm a little scared to open this can of worms, so I won't post it as a question. But now seems like the right time to use the rainbow icon to show love for the victims of the Orlando shootings which were primarily homosexual. I can't imagine anyone having a problem with that, but perhaps there is hesitance because the icon was used divisively in the past :( Commented Jun 16, 2016 at 15:22

5 Answers 5

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Stack Exchange is a private company. So they ultimately have final say in any design decisions they make. However, they quite frequently want community input and use that to drive design and feature decisions.

Stack Exchange usually goes mostly off community input, but if they feel an issue is big enough or important enough, either overall or to them as a company, then they have every right to change any part of the site design to acknowledge that.

To that end, I believe the policy boils down to "We'll take community input, but if we really feel the matter should be acknowledged on the site, we as a private company have the right to acknowledge it."

For the example in question, a number of the team are homosexual, Joel included, and therefore this court decision impacts a number of them directly. This gives them ample reason to change the logo to acknowledge this, whether the community likes it or not. Worth note that in this case, the community did show agreement in terms of upvotes on a post asking for the logo change and the top two answers in support of the change, the highest voted being from Joel himself.

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    You're ignoring the CC BY-SA terms which govern User Contributions to the site. They can't unilaterally change the design in a manner which violates those terms.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 26, 2015 at 21:44
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    @BenVoigt I look forward to your explanation as "All materials displayed or performed on the Network, including, but not limited to text, graphics, logos, tools, photographs, images, illustrations, software or source code, audio and video, and animations (collectively, “Content”) (other than Content posted by Subscriber (“Subscriber Content”)) are the property of Stack Exchange and/or third parties" which would include the logo, which is all they changed. So it will be an enlightening explanation I'm sure. Even if they do, as you said, get back into compliance, I would love to read it.
    – Kendra
    Commented Jun 26, 2015 at 21:56
  • 68
    In short, associating user content with the new rainbow logo is a violation of part 4(d) of the license. Because I consistently support (across the Internet and in real life) an originalist view of Constitutional interpretation, associating my work with a celebration of a ruling based on dynamic interpretation, paints me as a hypocrite. That's potentially harmful to my reputation and not appreciated.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 26, 2015 at 21:57
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    @BenVoigt Ah, I see. At the same time, had they chosen to change the logo to anything else, i.e. make it purple instead of orange, it would not be a violation, correct? Or in theory, since I'm sure purple is used as a color to represent some movement or such, it would associate you with that movement. Then again, the orange color could be associated with some cause you disagree with and could potentially be harmful to your reputation.
    – Kendra
    Commented Jun 26, 2015 at 22:00
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    @Kendra: The bits and pixels associated with the image are not the problem -- Stack Exchange clearly intends a message in support of the recent Supreme Court ruling which, as I said, is contrary to originalism. And this connection is not difficult for anyone to discover -- it's all over meta and being featured in the hot list.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 26, 2015 at 22:01
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    @BenVoigt - It says, "You must not distort, mutilate, modify or take other derogatory action in relation to the Work which would be prejudicial to the Original Author's honor or reputation." You are not the "Original Author" of the Stack Overflow logo.
    – BSMP
    Commented Jun 26, 2015 at 23:02
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    @BSMP: clearly true... so try thinking about the content which I am author of
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 3:49
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    @Qix: With all due respect, your comment shows that either you don't have a clue about the role of reputation in political discussions, or... well I choose not to attribute to malice that which can be attributed to ignorance. Suffice it to say that in most discussions of SCOTUS rulings, regardless of which viewpoint you have, if you oppose rule by fiat, someone will look for proof that you favor judicial activism when it obtains your desired outcome. Well, I don't favor judicial activism, by either the right wing or the left wing, and I don't appreciate it being associated with my profile.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 4:51
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    One thing I think all except the biggest extremists can agree on is that forcing it on user profile pages is going too far. Particular in the location it is in, right next to the user picture and name.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 4:53
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    I disagree with this interpretation. You may have created the answer, but your content ends there (or at your question, bio, etc). Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 5:25
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    @BenVoigt So which of: "distort, mutilate, modify or take other derogatory action" are they doing to your user contributions? Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 9:50
  • 13
    Ok, while I believe that 4(d) is also being violated, as I already said, I've realized that the clearest breach of license actually comes from 4(c): "If You Distribute, or Publicly Perform the Work or any Adaptations or Collections, ... You may not implicitly or explicitly assert or imply any connection with, sponsorship or endorsement by the Original Author, Licensor and/or Attribution Parties, as appropriate, of You or Your use of the Work, without the separate, express prior written permission of the Original Author, Licensor and/or Attribution Parties."
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 14:21
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    @BillWoodger: If you know a way to stop my content from being displayed in association with the words "Marry anyone you want", even if that means temporary complete removal from the site, then please do explain. But note that while putting that next to my name is the worst, I find all combinations of that logo, that text, and my work to be objectionable. Under the license all adaptations and collections need to clearly delineate what portion represents my content and viewpoint, and what has been added ex post facto. That's all I want.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 14:31
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    @Ben Voigt You seem to be looking for spurious interpretations of CC-BY-SA because you don't like an opinion expressed by the owners of SO (a private company). I'd point out you are free to express dissent on your profile. You could post the business about "supporting an originalist interpretation of the Constitution" if you like. But remember, the users of SO are international, not just in the USA. You can make your point but it might be lost on many SO users. IOW, you have the right to express your opinion, but many may not really care.
    – paisanco
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 14:32
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    @Kendra hover over the title and see, "Marry whomever you love. Even if they're not a developer." It's more than just pixels being displayed.
    – vol7ron
    Commented Jun 27, 2015 at 17:17
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The help pages tell us not to do that anything:

... likely to offend or alienate individuals or groups based on race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. will not be tolerated. At all.

The current / recent change is a good example. Whatever your opinion, gay marriage is a divisive issue - and the change to the rainbow SO logo is clearly alienating some users.

For that reason, I feel that SO/SE sites should stay away from political issues.

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    If it's alienating people in much the same way that desegregation alienated racists... that may not be a bad thing.
    – canon
    Commented Jun 29, 2015 at 19:35
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    @canon: ...according to your personal beliefs. That's the problem here. They're your beliefs. They happen to be mine too, but, so what? Commented Jun 29, 2015 at 19:44
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit the only way to not offend anyone is to not say anything. I don't see what people hope to gain as individuals from making a fuss over a temporary change in color to a logo. Commented Jun 29, 2015 at 19:47
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    @EpicPandaForce: Writing off people who disagree with you as "making a fuss" about something perceptibly insignificant just because it aligns with your views is pretty cowardly. This whole debacle has been offensive because of its US-centric nature. My user profile looks like I frankly give a flying frak what happens in the United States. That's not cool and, as Ben said, may violate the CC agreement. Commented Jun 29, 2015 at 19:48
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    @canon, so it's okay to offend and alienate anyone with whom SO's owners disagree? Do you think the message not to offend or alienate people retains any validity whatsoever, or has it become a politician-tier empty promise? Commented Jun 29, 2015 at 20:17
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    @TigerhawkT3 I really don't think SO's owners were intending to offend anyone. People just get offended over things that don't concern them in any valid way. It happens all the time, but that's why most of us become more mature as we age instead. This whole debate is literally just people saying "I don't want people to do things that I don't think they should want to be able to do, and I'm annoyed by that they now have the right to do what I don't think they should want to do". Weird. Honestly, I'm neutral about it, and considering I'm not in any of the LBGT, not sure why I should be concerned Commented Jun 29, 2015 at 20:53
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    The intent wasn't offense, but they knew that offense would happen and they didn't care. The whole debate is that some people are surprised and concerned that a programming Q&A site with such an emphasis on code and neutrality is now endorsing political positions with no other justification than "I really want to, and I do what I want." Commented Jun 29, 2015 at 20:59
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    @canon, and the same way as recognising Palestine as an independent state alienates 'apartheid' Israelis?
    – Benjol
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 4:50
  • @Benjol: bagsy you don't get put on the peace accord committee! ;-)
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:07
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    I'm not against the logo change, but given the ruling laid out in the help pages, I feel that the logo change is a classic case of 'do as I say, not as I do'.
    – RobH
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:10
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    @Benjol, Stack Exchange is not a site about Israeli / Palestinian relations and it is not a site about LGBT rights. The logo change was inappropriate for this site as would be the flying of either a Palestinian or Israeli flag.
    – TecBrat
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 18:37
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    BUT, The site is privately owned. They can do whatever they like. We each have a decision to make. That is: Is the changing of the logo enough of a breach of etiquette (breach of TOS) to make me stop using the site? I didn't like it. It offends my Christian sensibilities. Will I stop using SE? Probably not. SO has sites dedicated to Christianity, Judaism, Islam and I don't know what else, so there's obviously room for everyone and every opinion.
    – TecBrat
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 18:52
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    @TecBrat. Yes, but if you look at the majority of the people defending this decision across the multiple questions asked here, they all start trying to defend it from an ethical/logical point of view. Then eventually most fall back on what you just said. Which is symptomatic of something.
    – Benjol
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 4:38
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    Hi TecBrat, yes, the site is privately owned, but that is NOT a complimentary ticket to violate your own etiquette and rules Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 11:12
  • Well then you might want to post on the main meta asking them to shut down Politics Commented Jun 15, 2021 at 1:12
12

I suppose this question seeks an official answer from Stack Overflow, and it's worth considering that the readership may not get one - we are not owed anything in this regard. We should remember that on Stack Overflow we're lucky to get any input at all into the site, and – as far as I know – the rainbows that adorned Twitter, Soundcloud, Lyft, Google etc. were not put to any sort of democratic committee.

Whilst I think the Meta communities are great, I am not of the view that Stack Exchange is different to the other big US tech firms, as has been suggested in recent days. Stack Overflow is just a company that gives a bigger window, and a bit more community steering, into its operations. I think it is good that it does.

Several wild claims have been made recently about "the slippery slope of political activism", which I think needs to be marked out firmly as unhelpful hyperbole. I don't know whether one speaker was serious that Nazi flags would be next - did Godwin's Law need further testing? Taking sides on Israel/Palestine got a mention, as did endorsement of ISIS flags, a symbol for each of the major religions, and Hillary for POTUS too. Oh dear, oh dear. Do these speakers really believe this stuff will go into the logo next?

There have been three issues I am aware of that have ruffled the feathers of one or more Meta posters:

  1. A note on the passing of Apple founder Steve Jobs
  2. A pilot program to help mentor new female programmers in the US
  3. A celebration of marriage equality in the US

From this list I think we can roughly circumscribe the sorts of logo changes and minor top-bar celebrations we can expect in the future. I am guessing here of course, but perhaps a list of this kind can help reduce the wild claims that Stack Overflow is soon to endorse Mr Unicorn Waffle-Toaster for President:

  • The passing or anniversary of notable computing visionaries and leaders (item 1)
  • New civic rights that impact on Stack Exchange as an employer (items 2 and 3)

Since Stack Exchange is an international and remote-friendly employer, it could have celebrated the marriage equality referendum in Ireland too, as Reddit did. However, I don't think the lack of a logo change is a problem here - we don't want to get into the opposite problem where an SE site is obligated to celebrate one thing or another! Perhaps there will always be some case-by-case examination.

With this in mind, the set of things that might be endorsed in the future are not likely to include endorsements of pony fascism: it is stuff that, whether every reader likes it or not, is related to Stack Exchange's mission. Have I missed any categories out?

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  • Er, upvote and agreement. Sorry for misunderstanding, that I don't understand. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 22:29
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    "We should remember that on Stack Overflow we're lucky to get any input at all into the site". I agree. Sometimes people lose sight of the benefits of this community.
    – ryanyuyu
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 19:30
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    The speaker who used the example of whether it could be Nazi swastikas was a Stack Exchange employee (Admittedly, I did say that the reason that a "opinion of Stack Exchange, Inc. and not individual users" disclaimer is an absolutely requirement was that the same license clause protects us against unsavory messages)
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 2:26
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    As you mention in your answer, fascist endorsements are highly unlikely - but there are so many other sensitive topics. A very good example would be something like abortion - the right to life of a foetus against the mother's right to choose etc. [please no one start discussing it now] It's examples like these where no side is (trying to be) intolerant or bigoted etc. but most people feel very strongly one way or another about the argument.
    – Michael
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 8:14
  • There's all this discussion about a logo change for a widely supported (self-included) topic. It's not impossible to imagine SE picking a less universal right one day...
    – Michael
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 8:16
  • @BenVoigt: the point of my post was to warn about spurious and frankly daft suggestions from people who apparently are seriously suggesting there is a risk of swastikas going into the logo. I can't see any indication in Jaydles' message that SO is considering that next. I think he/she is pointing out that the modification of the top bar does not create an implicit endorsement in the way that you claim.
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 9:35
  • @Mikaveli: that you cite abortion as a "great example" illustrates how silly and over-reaching this discussion has become. Yes, it is a contentious topic, and no -- I am sorry this needs saying -- Stack Overflow will not be looking to be celebrate legal rulings on this topic, with a logo change or similar, into the future.
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 9:40
  • I've tried to delineate a sensible set of rules as to how SO might pick its topics, and I think I sort of missed one: being a model tech employer. The manner in which SE supports female and gay programmers is above and beyond the minimum legal requirements, and it is just good marketing as well as creating a positive and welcoming work environment. An assistance program for people of colour would fit in just fine, for example, and is precisely the same thing as other good tech employers are doing in the United States. This stuff really isn't radical.
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 9:44
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    @halfer How do we know? Marital status, for example, has got nothing to do with an employer... Also, your assistance programs are also highly debatable - positive discrimination is still discrimination. Personally, I just hire the best person for the job equally!
    – Michael
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 10:31
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    @Mikaveli: marital status presumably has an impact on pension rights and death in service life insurance benefits - plenty to do with employment. Additionally, the celebration of marriage equality across tech firms was another way for good employers to say "you are welcome here".
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 10:35
  • As for positive discrimination, well you are welcome to your opinions on that, as is Stack Exchange. I'm not in the US, but I expect a basic level of anti-discrimination will be written into law, so there's not much you can do about it. If you are in the United States yourself, lobby your elected representative?
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 10:38
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    @halfer and dependants don't? My point is it has no relevance on someone's ability to do the work and their employability.
    – Michael
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 10:38
  • @Mikaveli: your discussion is veering rather off-topic, sorry. If you want to respond to the thrust of the post - how SE might choose its celebrations and assistance programs - that's fine.
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 10:40
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    @halfer Now you're contradicting yourself. Yes, in my country anti-discrimination is written into (employment) law. Assisting someone based on their (perceived) race or skin colour would likely fall foul of that...
    – Michael
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 10:41
  • BTW you mention "wild claims about the slippery slope", but your answer then goes on to prove evidence that political activism in Stack Overflow banners concerns ever more contentious topics.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jul 2, 2015 at 14:37
-7

Using the phrase political issues is nebulous. Is any issue that is discussed by any government at any time suddenly a "political issue"? If so then programming itself is a "political issue"...lots of questions here could be used theoretically (if not explicitly framed as such--which is also tolerated) to crack passwords or DRM or whatever.

If the question might be targeted more formally it would be about "non-software-engineering-related-issues". In particular... ones that metrically might be unusually divisive--and hence "distracting". The argument is thus perhaps framed about distracting issues.

Many are certainly tired of me beating a dead horse (and probably tired of me in general). But I've already pointed out there are already "distractions", like the hats and the Tamagochi/StackEgg. And I personally do like that sort of thing... but I just feel a lot of feature requests haven't even been tried. In my mind they'd be easier to write and maybe solve some of the problem dynamics. (cough) except it's always easier said than done, and implementation is only part of it...you have design metric studies too to see how it worked and tweak it, but stackoverflow isn't open source so I can't submit a PR to offer how they might be done, etc.(cough)

So here we are left with a needed definition of what the "clear and present mission" is, and what distracts from it... plus how much "distraction" is implicitly tolerated because it is fun and doesn't make enough users angry.

If I had to distill the inciting issue to "distraction" with a rainbow icon and who's most responsible, I'd say it's the people having a fit about it. They claim to be programmers and claim to care about solid code, but they somehow aren't at all worried about who put the bug in their own brain to where they're digging up creative commons licenses and having an aneurysm to figure out why a slightly more colorful StackOverflow icon too close to their name or picture is wrong. Even if your sexual identity and what you approve or disapprove of is sacrosanct, if what people think you believe can be derailed by a juxtaposition like that...I'd be more worried about that vulnerability much more.

Still I mentioned I have been in opposition to distracting issues, or ones with clear bias. I have spoken out against that meta post for the "girls only can write this email address" mentorship idea promoted on Meta by SE. But that's different...I think it represents the opposite of why Joel thought it was ok to have a little icon to support the neutral position becoming law. And a one-off icon that took a few minutes can't irritate me in the "distraction" sense on its own merit, vs. the hats or the eggs in a sense...because it took a few seconds to draw.

If anyone calls themselves a technologist, you've gotta be ready for AI rights. So you think it's weird when something has nearly identical DNA and feelings, yet has the same genitalia as you but wants to live in your world and be accepted? "Oh please. Tell me more."

(For me personally, I won't be truly vindicated until un-marryable single heterosexuals can tax-deduct their cats.)

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    (I agree that some things on SE sites can be distracting. For example lots of bold, super, italic styles in the same post! If you emphasise everything, nothing gets emphasised).
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 29, 2015 at 23:15
  • 5
    As to your topic, it kind of sounds a bit hostile and dismissive to me, a feeling rather confirmed by your calling downvoters "cowards". The discussion about anonymous downvoting has rather been done to death, and the outcome of that was that it's perfectly OK. I vote that everyone - on both sides - has a rational and civil argument, and that where appropriate we agree to disagree.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 29, 2015 at 23:18
  • @halfer Thanks for putting your downvote in my recordbooks. The rest are on SE's. Nite. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 2:44
  • Hmm, odd. I thought I had downvoted here, and replied in that vein, but it appears that I have not. I don't know what you mean by "the rest are on SEs". You are most welcome to respond to the topic of my comments, and I earnestly would like to understand your position. As it stands you are opposing the logo change so loudly, I cannot see that a "no politics" personal rule could possibly be the cause of the volume.
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 8:07
  • @halfer Opposing the logo change? Uhhhh, er, what? Perhaps you misread. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 9:35
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    Heh, is it my misreading, or your post? ;-) OK, I've re-read it again and now concede I am not sure what you are saying (though I suspect it would be clearer if compressed into half the length). My points about tone do stand though. Perhaps it is just a complex joke, with your fork being hostile 'n all!
    – halfer
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 9:45
  • Life itself might be a complex joke, but I think the post isn't that opaque. I challenge the question of what it means to be "political" and if we really have a clear definition => turn it to say the question is about "distraction" => if "distraction" is the metric then I've picked some beefs about that in the past, but => the people turning a simple logo change representing a civil rights advancement into a firestorm seem more like the "distraction" to me. I ask for more future, please; because I hold software engineers to a higher standard. Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:00
  • 1
    I don't know what this post is trying to say either.
    – Cypher
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 4:05
  • @Cypher TL;IL (too long, illiterate): A: "Political issues" isn't a well-defined term, so that must be defined well before talking about it B: People are looking for any excuse to talk about why "a temporary logo change isn't what the site is for", but then you need to define precisely what the site is for & there are more relevant challenges than grotesque raging homophobes having a conniption fit. C: The legal answer "it is what it is" e.g. it's StackOverflow.com registered to people operating under laws and you can't do much if they don't break them except protest and that's your right. Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 4:37
-9

I would like to have an election where the user community is allowed to vote on whether stack exchange should be used to promote/support political or social causes in the future.

There seems to be a hardcore group of Stack Exchange users which slam anyone who goes against the CEO and the other co-owners of this site. They stifle anyone who goes against their view of Stack Exchange by locking their posts, and even deleting them before a full debate can flourish. What is the CEO afraid of? just give us an election so we can see what the community feels/thinks about this issue. that is fair and square and democratic.

Remember we, the users, made this site a success.


The popularity and usefulness of the Stack Exchange sites has arguably been mostly as a result of the hard work and effort by the software engineers who have posted questions and answers. Without them Stack Exhange would have been a flop. Therefore I argue that the CEO of stack exchange and the board should not have unilateral sway on whether they should be able to promote social and political causes. The site is just as much the engineers who have contributed than the CEO and his board. There needs to be a referendum on whether stack exchange should be used to promote social and political causes.

I only realised there was voting on whether this should go ahead or not after the event. For people who are saying that this was done democratically give me a break. Elections are announced to everyone in good time so that people can prepare to make their vote.

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    "Therefore I argue that the CEO of stack exchange and the board should not have unilateral sway on whether they should be able to promote social and political causes" As I pointed out on your earlier question, as a private company, Stack Exchange has every right to completely disregard you and the outcome of any community-initiated vote. They are completely within their rights, as a company, to have ignored the original request's outcome had it have gone far in the negative instead. It was not an election, but a feature request that they were already planning to do. (cont.)
    – Kendra
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:04
  • 2
    (cont.) For this reason, they featured the post rather than make their own to announce why they made the change. They did not feature it to try to get the community's feel for things, they did so only to pin the explanation for the course of the logo change. In the end, no matter what you do or say, the CEO of Stack Exchange and the team that run the sites will always have unilateral sway, as they are the ones who pay time and money to run these sites. Until you start paying for all of that, you don't really get a whole lot of say in the end, aside from what they give you on certain matters.
    – Kendra
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:05
  • 3
    @Kendra and as I have said before this privately owned company would be nothing without the community effort over the years. It's the community which makes this site what it is. Therefore they should have more say in these matters.
    – user3248346
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:12
  • 3
    It doesn't matter if they would be nothing without us. If they make a change the user base disagrees with entirely, then they are the ones who risk their business going down if all the users decide to leave. It's a case of they should listen to their users, but they are in absolutely zero ways required to. Good business sense does not a hard fast rule make.
    – Kendra
    Commented Jun 30, 2015 at 16:14
  • 2
    @I.K. This should be a site dedicated to technical matters related software engineering only. - Which it already is. SE decides to change the logo for the first time in seven years in celebration of an event (== not to promote a cause; it was a done deal already) and now everybody loses their minds and thinks they have to speak up or otherwise SE is going to start to decorate everything in nazi flags or otherwise become political tomorrow. Pro tip: they won't (it would lose them a metric crapton of users), and all this agitation is just making you and everybody else look stupid.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 9:47
  • 5
    Ah, alright, removing restrictions on a state-sanctioned form of personal union is potentially just as offensive as gassing people based on their race or the shape of their nose, gotcha. Sadly you've completely missed the point that this happend for the first time in the seven years of SEs existence and you can bet it won't happen again anytime soon. But feel free to be agitated some more, I bet if you just capslock hard enough then SE is going to listen to you.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 10:04
  • 4
    Everything is offensive to somebody. If we remove everything that's offensive, the PHP and Java tags would be pretty empty. In my case, I'm rather offended that you're still missing my point.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 10:08
  • 5
    Ah, this isn't just opposed to the logo change, is it? It's quite openly homophobic. The purpose of the logo change in the first place is to assert that gay people have a right to an equal place in society, and that these rights remain even if some people do not like it. The Nazi comparison really does your stance no favours at all - and I dread to think what countries you might be appealing to when you suggest that LGBT rights are "offensive somewhere". Saudi Arabia?
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 10:26
  • 2
    @I.K.: well, you'll do very well not to make comparisons with fascism. It does not matter if someone else mentioned it first, you said "for some LGBT issues are just as offensive as Nazi issues". That is hyperbole of the first order, and it does not help your case.
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 11:25
  • 4
    @I.K.: it is not healthy for you to advance someone else's repellent argument - you either agree with it or you do not. My view is that you do, but are unwilling to say it. As I said in my prior comment, which crossed with yours, if you are in favour of reducing someone else's civic rights, you should be willing to say so quite explicitly. Don't just advance regressive environments like Saudi Arabia (or wherever else) as evidence that we must not scare the horses.
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 11:42
  • 4
    @I.K.: I don't agree with that, but that's by the by. You have thus far avoided answering all the points put to you, and in particular that you have used other people's homophobic opinions (comparison between marriage equality with fascism, for example) but you don't seem to be willing to own up to those opinions. Your willingness to stand by whilst "other people" condemn the LGBT community as "offensive and disgusting" is not healing the rift at all, since you ask.
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 13:16
  • 3
    You seem to still be ignoring the points I made previously. Even if it's a good idea, even if it could cost them their business, Stack Exchange is in no way required by anything to honor the outcome of the election you call for. You cannot force them to obey the outcome of that election. I'm sorry, but you can't do that.
    – Kendra
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 13:29
  • 2
    @I.K.: it is indeed possible to oppose a logo change for a variety of reasons, and that opposition may be constructive. I furthermore agree that not all opposition to marriage equality is homophobic. But yes, I suspect you personally hold homophobic and intolerant views, I have explained why I think that, and I have given you plenty of chances to explain otherwise. You refuse to do so.
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 18:23
  • 2
    (I am quite forthright with my opinions, undoubtedly, but I'd point out to you IK, as I've said to Oleg, that abuse isn't helpful in this conversation. You'll note I've not insulted you at all in this or any discussion, and your position will be infinitely strengthened if you can stick to rational argumentation.)
    – halfer
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 18:29
  • 2
    @halfer In some cultures, it's not considered "homophobic" to be against those relationships- It's just considered being a good citizen. And I.K. is correct- The thought of LGBT is offensive to some people. I did not see a spot where I.K. said that it was offensive to them personally, just where they said it could be conceived by some (some Christians for example) as something as offensive as Nazism is to a lot of us. I think you took that comment out of context from them.
    – Kendra
    Commented Jul 1, 2015 at 18:53

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