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I have been accused of defacing another user's answer.

The answer provided two potential solutions. The second I personally find very good. However the first, as far as I currently understand it, does not work.

For some reason the author cannot or does not seem to want to offer instructions on how to to make his first suggestion work.

He has since added this line to his answer:

It is a little tricky to get that to compile, but it can be done.

I inquired about whether and how to make his first suggestion work. After deleting his other comments, the author told me:

If you will delete all your comments that are defacing my answer, and contact me by email offline, and if you will promise not to tell the OP how to do it, I will show you how to do it privately.

Is that an appropriate remark to make on Stack Overflow?
Are my comments really defacing the authors answer?

Additional Comments, the author has deleted

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  • 55
    Defacing? No. The admonition to not tell the OP is also a bit... disturbing. That said, posting compiling code when you are simply discussing it is not a requirement either, and its very annoying when someone (usually the OP) points out a non-declared variable or other trivial compilation error that was clearly just an example (not what happened here, but very common) Commented Jun 16, 2015 at 23:08
  • 1
    What exactly are you specifically asking here? If it is inappropriate to use a variation of the word "defacement" ?
    – Gimby
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 13:14
  • 26
    "and if you will promise not to tell the OP how to do it" WAT.
    – AdamMc331
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 19:50
  • 27
    "and if you will promise not to tell the OP how to do it" - sounds like he does not want to lead the OP astray by learning some hack. It was a weird way to phrase it, but I think his intentions are honorable.
    – KJ Price
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 19:51
  • 6
    That's more than just a weird way to say it. What's so hard about saying "I don't believe that's a reasonable solution so I have decided not to post it here."? And then offer to have the discussion off-line.
    – AdamMc331
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 19:53
  • 33
    Not appropriate at all. How in the world can you contact him "by email offline"???
    – codeMagic
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 19:53
  • 15
    I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt online and in real life. We're not all wordsmiths. You could even say we're not all... super good with words.
    – user201891
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 19:54
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    I don't even use Swift, but now I want to know how to get it to compile
    – Dave
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 20:17
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    I think you were unwise to declare "It's not going to work" unless you're entirely certain of that, and other comments in this posting seem to suggest you may have been wrong there, ultimately. Then the bolded all-caps doesn't help your case either. (Are you angry about this? Nobody is obligated to respond to your questions.) From my perspective, you didn't ask for enlightenment, you attacked. I wouldn't ever suggest you use that tone. Instead, just ask "can the first approach be made to work? It seems to me it cannot." Then you'd very likely short-circuit the whole sequence. Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 20:23
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    There are far too many of us david/daves.
    – Dave S
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 20:27
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    @DavidS +1 for Reginald's eloquence. (Although the admonition not to tell the OP still disturbs me.) Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 1:35
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    @KJPrice Honorable, in some subjective sense, but inappropriate. This is a site where knowledge is embraced, not feared. What if Einstein had withheld his theories based on his fear that someone might use them in a way that was disagreeable to him? Not posting a solution because it's of poor quality is one thing; demanding a promise not to share knowledge with others is just bizarre.
    – user164226
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 14:17
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    IMO it is kind of derailing his answer and you should have taken your questions into a chat
    – wim
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 14:35
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    @RobertCrovella Very good point. It getting out of hand, essentially got down to this + a misunderstanding. The previous version of his answer didn't mention a hack. That it doesn't work by adding a single respondsToSelector call (which I thought he meant at the time), I am entirely certain of. I was sort of angry about the comment by matt that is missing in-between as I have felt that it hadn't really addressed the concerns that I raised in my first comment. I should have raised them in a more friendly way and most of all, confirmed that we were talking about the same thing way earlier.
    – Tim Bodeit
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 19:14
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    @codeMagic D'oh! Yet again I am foiled by the lack of tone in text conversation :P Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 20:59

2 Answers 2

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You're not defacing anything. Comments are for discussion and clarification, and that's exactly what you're after. I think it would've been better for him to just say, "The solution is bad, so I'm not going to post how to do it here and mislead anyone."

Other thoughts:

I'd consider him an authority on the subject (gold tags in the Objective-C and Swift tags, author of related books), so the question becomes, why doesn't he want to elaborate on that part?

However, this sort of dynamic messaging is discouraged in Swift.

I don't know Objective-C, but I see this kind of behavior in questions about WPF quite frequently.

WPF's predecessor, Windows Forms, relied heavily on code that was tightly-coupled to each Form. It was difficult to maintain and near-impossible to test. You can do that in WPF as well, but it is in no way recommended. Almost anyone would suggest using MVVM and data-binding.

That's what Matt seems to be saying. Yes, there's a way and with enough effort you'll get it to work, but it's not recommended, so he's not going to waste time showing anyone how and send them down the wrong path.

He's willing to tell you how, but he doesn't want to muck up his answer with a poor solution and feels so strongly against it that he's asking you not to share it either.

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  • 1
    Agreed, I will only include the "code-behind" version of WPF answers if I have a really good reason to. Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 1:46
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    You gotta admit the way he's expressing it makes it sound really sinister...
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 3:24
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    Yeah the original comment thread reads like a bit of an ego trip. "I'm the king of this castle!" Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 19:46
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit Image being king of castle with square moat - you gave 2 planks to contenders for princes' heart to cross the moat... and helpful person suggest to simply put them across the moat with weight on first one... first 20 contenders eaten by crocodiles are fun... maybe even 50... but at some point it gets sad and you'd like to ask that "helpful" person to stop and let contenders to try other solutions. At this point "please don't @@***@ tell that solution to OP" seems quite fair to me. Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 22:11
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    @AlexeiLevenkov: The difference is that in that scenario you are actually causing people to drown, whereas in this scenario you are merely giving them the opportunity to drown. They are still free to try an entirely different approach that does not involve drowning. Commented Jun 17, 2015 at 23:30
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    @LightnessRacesinOrbit (I'm clearly not a good writer) King does not cause people to drown - that "helpful person" is not associated with king at all - just acting on it own, helping people to build what they just started... People frequently get attached to own solutions and happily follow any hacks that seemingly would help to prove their own - putting weight on a board or just getting code to compile in any convoluted way would be frequently preferred over other (even known to be superior, but "not my own") solution. Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 0:30
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    @AlexeiLevenkov - People tend to take shortcuts. And normally others are the ones that wind up paying the price, for example the poor soul that has to later maintain all the code full of hacks.
    – Dzyann
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 3:07
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From my point of view, you went on and on, adding comment after comment, after I had done everything I could think of to be friendly and to meet you halfway. For example:

  • I invited you to submit your own answer and told you I would upvote it and encourage the OP to accept it rather than mine - that was the first thing I said.

  • I offered to tell you what I didn't want to tell the OP, namely how to inject setEnabled: completely artificially into the compiler's sphere of knowledge so that his sender.setEnabled?(false) would compile (and work). If you were truly interested in knowledge, rather than in trying to be the boss of me, surely that should have satisfied you.

  • I revised my answer to be more explicit about the fact that respondsToSelector: can in fact be made to work in this situation, and about what I was not saying and why.

But I also made it plain from the start that I would not be told what to say and not to say in my answer - especially since I didn't agree with you. In spite of that, as I say, you went on and on, making comment after comment.

So yes, I think my answer was defaced, and I found your tone and words throughout to be attacking, rude, peremptory, and dismissive. That I am a human being like yourself - let alone someone with some knowledge of the matter - seems not have entered into the picture. Your motivations, as things unfolded, seemed more and more to be personal and not in line with the educational purpose of Stack Overflow.

I would in fact have proceeded to delete my answer just in order to free it from the tail of your comments hanging off it, but a moderator was kind enough to agree with my request that they be deleted.

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    I agree with your position, Fair enough if you don't want to post/encourage a poor solution which hacks around the problem. I also totally get why the conversation was frustrating. Having people tell you how to suck eggs, well it sucks. But I think your replies came off as a bit angry which made the issue worse. If you feel trolled, don't feed the trolls
    – undefined
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 2:18
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    I agree with @LukeMcGregor, your answers came off a bit angry, which is understandable. I however didn't feel your comment about not telling the OP was negative, it seemed funny to me. I think Tim really wanted to know but didn't came through clear and after a while as you said the whole thing got defaced.
    – Dzyann
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 3:12
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    @Vikas OP = original poster, the person who posted the question/started a discussion Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 13:49
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    @Vikas note you can check all of these terms in Stack Exchange Glossary - Dictionary of Commonly-Used Terms.
    – fedorqui
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 16:12
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    IMO you also defaced your own answer - by referring to "that which must not be specified" as the very first thing rather than as a foot note ;) The only reason I say this is to illustrate a point; I used the term 'defacement' here in a way that is neutral to anyone's character, just like you used it in the deleted comments. So its a perfectly fine word to use on SO, in my opinion. It does not imply offense.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 16:16
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    @matt To be honest: Both of us got the feeling of the other one trying to boss us. I should have been a lot friendlier from the first comment on. my point of view
    – Tim Bodeit
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 18:50
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    My current understanding: You are saying, that selector based calling is possible in Swift, but requires compiler injection in some form. I misunderstood your initial answer. I thought you were saying, that calling respondsToSelector would make the Swift compiler realize that the method must exist and dispatch it through the ObjC runtime. I was the one that started off a series of not very nice comments from both sides. Both of us got the feeling that the other had a problem with us personally, instead of being interested in the most value for the stackoverflow community. Would you agree?
    – Tim Bodeit
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 18:50
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    I feel, that you have since changed your answer for the better. It is now much clearer, that actually getting it to work requires a hack and simply doing the same thing as in Objective-C doesn’t work. Your good intentions are clear. And in case it got drowned in everything else, let me repeat my first sentence: I really like your Swift approach!
    – Tim Bodeit
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 18:50
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    Why even post a solution if you don't want to include the hack that makes it actually work? Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 21:22
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    I have to agree with @TigerhawkT3. If you think that your solution is hackish or that anything that would clarify it is not the "right way" of doing things and should be kept out of public eye... well, then why would you even bring it up?
    – B.K.
    Commented Jun 18, 2015 at 21:39
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    @B.K. because the question itself was on the wrong path; to make an answer that steers it to the right path you can't ignore the bad entirely, you have to reference it and debunk it.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jun 19, 2015 at 11:47
  • @Gimby Fair enough; but then why not be as clear as possible?
    – B.K.
    Commented Jun 19, 2015 at 16:23
  • @B.K. my earlier comment about "defacing your own post" was actually half serious, I half-agree with you. But I also see it from the other perspective: it IS a very clear answer. If you take the time to properly read and understand it, which is basically the minimal effort to be expected from anyone reading answers.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jun 22, 2015 at 7:42

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