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You may have heard of cryptocurrencies - online currencies (Bitcoin, dogecoin, litecoin, etc) that have recently been making headlines. As a cryptocurrency enthusiast, I would like to suggest something that might make SO a bit better - cryptocurrency tipping.

What is it?

Cryptocurrency tipping is where, as an "internet thumbs up" of sorts, people send small amounts (often cents of fractions of a cent) to a user in a comment. It is a great way to thank someone for a very well written, interesting, or cool post. For more info, check out changetip, a service widely used on twitter and reddit to do just this.

Why?

We all have our favorite posts. And for those posts, perhaps you feel an upvote doesn't do it justice. With cryptocurrency tipping, I could send the author a small amount of money, in the form of litecoin, bitcoin, dogecoin, etc. Not a huge amount - but enough to give them a huge thanks - an internet high five, if you will.

I can see people saying this goes against the spirit of SO. However, I disagree. It just adds another layer of ways to show appreciation.

First, it would not make using stack overflow about getting money. The tips are so small (on r/dogecoin, a subreddit, I generally see tips of 100 doge, or two cents) that one doesn't make much money - it is an impractical way to gain money, thus one wouldn't use SO solely to get money.

Also, some might say that it would lead to lo quality questions seeking solely tips. I disagree - I am not suggesting that we do away with badges and reputation. A user knows that bad questions will get downvoted. There still would be (if anything, more) incentive to ask good questions.

So, in conclusion, I think we should add cryptocurrency tipping to SO - it would lead to a great way to show appreciation, lead to higher quality questions, and not be detrimental to the spirit of SO.

Example

As a question:

[Well written, thought out, enjoyable question. One of the best you've seen.]

As a comment

Great question! @ExampleTipBot here's 100 dogecoin on me. Thanks!

25
  • 4
    I can see someone perhaps putting a remark like “Liked an answer I gave? Consider sending me X coins at the address 01234-ABC.” in their ‘about me’, but I’m not sure that it’s something Stack Exchange should integrate.
    – icktoofay
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 0:06
  • 15
    Just saying "I disagree" is in no way an argument against each of those things.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 0:06
  • 3
    @animuson Is there a way you feel I could make my arguments more robust? I feel "I disagree - I am not suggesting that we do away with badges and reputation. A user knows that bad questions will get downvoted. There still would be (if anything, more) incentive to ask good questions." contains argument, in bold.
    – rocket101
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 0:09
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    That makes no sense though. "This won't happen because we already have other things" is certainly not a good reason to assume something won't happen. And your "argument" for it not violating the spirit of the site is "it's too small"? It's still monetary gain, however small it is, which is a violation of the spirit of this site.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 0:14
  • 9
    The way I see it, we ALREADY have some problems with the gamification of our rep, which is COMPLETELY fake internet points. How can "slightly less fake" currency make this better?
    – Patrice
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 0:25
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    @Patrice I'm an avid supporter of Bitcoin and there is nothing fake about it. However, there are much better reasons for not supporting the idea. The main premise for not gaming the current system is that there is very little to gain. This changes if Bitcoin tipping is added: now there is quite a real monetary gain and there are ways to fix it with things like "proof-of-burn". However, I simply don't see how that would add anything significant to the SO experience.
    – Kiril
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 0:49
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    @Lirik so you agree with me. I'm saying that our current fake rep points cause gamification, so using something less fake, like bitcoins, will just make it WORSE. I should've been clearer with "slightly less fake" I guess :P. The slightly less fake was in fact a way to address rocket's statement that "since it's fraction of a cent, it's not that dangerous"
    – Patrice
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 0:52
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    Please don't peddle this here. Being tipped a few cents or a fraction of a cent is insulting. I don't see how it will work as a reputation system anyway since people can tip whatever value they want. Who has more reputation, someone with a $1 tip or someone with 100 1 cent tips?
    – user13741
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 2:41
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    @user13741 not trying to peddle anything - just an idea.
    – rocket101
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 3:46
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    @ArtShayderov if you're asking why they downvote this, it's because voting is different in meta. "On posts tagged feature-request, voting indicates agreement or disagreement with the proposed change rather than just the quality or usefulness of the post itself.". If you're asking why the linked question is downvoted, then I don't have any idea.
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 10:01
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    It should be noted that this meta question was linked in large online communities supporting this idea in an attempt to have a disproportionally large portion of proponents vote on it. In my humble opinion, this is very dubious and casts a large shadow of doubt on the proposer's claims that they are "not trying to peddle anything" and that the improvement of SE is at the core of their idea.
    – us2012
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 13:32
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    @us2012 I was just trying to get their feedback - if you don't agree, down vote - no need to criticize my motives. Sorry if it seems dubious, it was just an idea.
    – rocket101
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 15:40
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    I would be for this as long as there was a strict rule against asking for money. A little integrated tipping button from ChangeTip, with the ability to add real money bounties seems good and harmless. People would beg though and that's trashy, so I would hope for strictly enforced rules against it.
    – geoff
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 15:53
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    I'm already annoyed enough to see these stupid pseudo-currencies popup on reddit threads, I don't want to see them here as well. Since when is "a fraction of a cent" considered "a huge thanks"? Monetary rewards have no place here for so often pointed out reasons. Just because you're suggesting a currency with the volatility of the Zimbabwean dollar doesn't make it a good idea suddenly. Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 16:17
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    rocket101, bitcoin folks were attempting to manipulate voting several months before you arrived at SO (@us2012 you see, it wouldn't be the first time)
    – gnat
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 20:24

9 Answers 9

37

We've historically said no, and will likely continue to say no to this for the following reasons:

  1. It goes against the grain of our community. While rep is fun, and can have some value if you're looking for a job or something, most people participate on the site just because they love doing it. Money dilutes that, even just knowing that others are making some.

  2. It's extraordinarily difficult to get right. As we're working on systems that adjust how much visibility certain questions (and their answers) receive based on calculated quality heuristics and human input, such as system could never be entirely 'fair'. While we'd of course make sure that a +20 answer saw plenty of daylight even if it was on a -10 scored question, it's a difficult balance. There's no way to give everyone 'equal time' on a site at our scale, we'd inadvertently 'bias' the system no matter what we did.

  3. It's not invented here - plenty of people link to their Github or other sites where there's ample opportunity to say 'thanks' with a monetary gift if you wish to do so. Heck, some folks put links to their Amazon wishlist right in their profile, and we're fine with that. There's no reason for us to codify that which already exists without us lifting a finger.

  4. It introduces additional support overhead which we're in no way equipped to handle. We're barely keeping our heads above water when it comes to user support incidents being processed and resolved timely as it is.

I am not saying that we'll never implement something for those times when an up-vote just isn't enough to express your gratitude for someone's contribution. I'm just saying we're not going to do it with currency, crypto or otherwise. But really, take any concept and then run it past this test:

How would we prevent 'badgering'? How easy can it be gamed?

.. it's not exactly the easiest thing to come up with in a manner that doesn't create more work for a bunch of people :)

In the meantime, use bounties and think about stuff like really rare badges that take things like anonymous feedback / bounties earned / etc into account. If you've got an answer that has 10,000 anonymous Googlers saying "this was great" plus 20 up-votes and two people have put a bounty on it to say thanks, you probably deserve something special for it.

79

People get stupidly obsessed and angry over tiny perceived slights to their reputation, and it's a useless arbitrary points system. They'll also leave comments like "If my answer helped you, please accept it!" below the question or hound people who they think downvoted them.

The very last thing we need is to introduce real financial incentive to this site. If you want to help here, it should be because you want to help. Adding financial reward will attract the wrong sort of person.

If you want to make money helping (or pay to receive help) then there are sites for that.

5
  • I'm here to help and to look for help, but I wouldn't mind a tip. It's not incentive as it's not mandatory. I say do it.
    – Gubatron
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 14:19
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    @Gubatron As soon as you add the ability for people to make money here, it doesn't matter if it's mandatory, it will have a drastically negative impact on the site.
    – user229044 Mod
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 15:39
  • However, if you ask a question, and someone goes to great length to supply a well written and helpful answer, I see no issue with accepting and giving a tip, I'd rather save 30 minutes of my time and give someone a $1 tip than wait for answers to a problem I had last week. Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 16:05
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    @DanielMorritt So what you're saying is you want to pay for faster answers. As I said, there is a site for that, and it is not StackOverflow
    – user229044 Mod
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 16:07
  • @meagar No that's not what I'm saying, please don't put words in my mouth or twist what I wrote. I'm just saying I see nothing wrong with giving someone a discretionary/voluntary monetary reward if they have given you some assistance. A simple upvote is enough to warrant the responses you get anyway from this site. I am not saying payments should be encouraged, or discouraged, I am not saying it should be mandatory or expected. I am simply saying that I don't see why a voluntary tip is a problem when someone has gone out their way to help you. Commented Jan 12, 2015 at 9:58
24

In 2011 I had exactly the same idea and ask them to accept bitcoin as bounty. I was convinced that it was not a good idea. Please see this discussion: Offering actual money as a bounty?

17

Many developers come On SO when at work. And their contract, be it implicit or explicit, would usually forbid such financial gains.

I'm sure such a system would come with an option to prevent those tips but even with such an option this would cast a severe doubt on the motivations of people answering and it would totally change the reputation of Stack Overflow among employers.

I don't think it would be possible for most developers to connect while at work any more. I know I would probably stop answering. There are other sites where I could monetize my abilities, that's not what SO is about for me.

9

This is a very dangerous idea! There are scientific experiments showing that monetary incentives in many cases directly competes with more personal motivations, and they even put people into MRI's and could see that we use different areas of the brain for different incentives and that we actually can't use the different areas at the same time.

Personal motivation + $.01 is basically not slightly more then personal motivation, but rather slightly more then $.01 since most of the former gets lost.

I'm on my phone so gathering sources isn't easy, but google When and why incentives (don't) work to modify behavior for something to start with.

2

In theory Changetip itself could just use the events API to parse new comments and implement tipping themselves, however there is one HUGE problem with this. Notifying someone when they have a tip. Unlike Reddit et. al. StackExchange doesn't have user-to-user private messaging, and I don't think anyone is going to agree with an arrangement where comments get spammed up with these sorts of things.

Now if you really want to tip people who will actually appreciate the tip rather than running around trying to spam coins, it would be easy enough to come up with some sort of agreeable convention, for instance suggesting interested parties put a tip.me URL in the 'about me' section of their profile.

Once a few people agreed on a convention a userscript could theoretically be developed easily enough to make it easier to find eager tip recipients while browsing posts.

Edit: TL; DR: If you want this, there are ways to agree with other interested parties on how to do this, and not bother the larger community with it.

0

I have a lot of sympathy with this idea and with cryptocurrency in general, but it's very hard to predict what the consequences of it would be. It's understandable that people would not want to move forward with this idea on SO until there's a convincing proof that the concept will work with sites of this kind.

It would be better if someone could create a successful SO type site with cryptocurrency integrated. It needn't be as successful as SO to be a convincing proof of concept, since the early mover advantage of SO is huge.

-7

I posted this as a separate question but someone pointed out that it has already been asked. Nevertheless I feel it is worth a revisit so will post it here:

Reddit recently introduced Moons. They are awarded monthly based on the contributions made by each user (with each sub-group deciding on the exact methodology for allocation).

See: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/gj96lb/introducing_rcryptocurrency_moons/

It got me thinking. Should Stackoverflow have a similar reward system so that people are more strongly rewarded for solving issues. In particular I'd like to see if it could lead to experts on topics being rewarded for offering their support in that niche area.

While you might argue that we already have points and badges, a block-chain based approach could have all sorts of other benefits esp. if it embeds knowledge of what type of question the person helped answer. It could become a evidence of a persons level of knowledge on certain topics that they could show to potential employers.

People in more obscure/niche areas would be incentivized to offer their support as they are more likely to earn more coins than popular areas.

-27

Whose line is it anyway? O come on people the points don't matter neither will the tipping.

What is important is helping people. Helping someone to send a tip is a good idea. Helping someone to receive a tip is good idea.

Yes it might mean SO has another level of complexity to negotiated. It might just freshen and brighten up things.

1
  • 18
    Yes, helping people is important, which is why people are answering questions and asking interesting questions on SE. Why exactly is helping someone send a tip on SE a good idea? "It might just freshen up things" is an argument that could equally be applied to a proposal that would replace all SE icons with cute pictures of cats.
    – us2012
    Commented Dec 28, 2014 at 18:03

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