172

I have noticed that many low-quality questions begin with the asker explicity emphasizing that they have just started programming or learning a new technology. Or put another way, a very large percentage of questions that begin with these words are total crap.

It might help if the system could react to these keywords, and related misspellings, and make it clear that

  • being a beginner is not an excuse for not reading the FAQ and how to ask guidelines
  • nobody really cares or should care, that the rules will not be relaxed on that account
  • beginners can write perfectly good questions if they want to
  • putting such terms in their question just increases noise

It also might help if some kind of bubble popped up and provided an in-your-face link to the better version of the how-to-ask page, while providing strongs visual hints that not paying attention will have consequences.

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  • 77
    Also, the question should never be about the asker, it's about the question, so if they're a beginner or not is of zero importance. =)
    – J. Steen
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 15:01
  • 50
    Add "please don´t downvote me" etc., or the word downvote in general (outside of meta)
    – deviantfan
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 15:23
  • 76
    Just block questions that contain i or more than one uncapitalized sentence.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 15:35
  • 12
    And questions with all caps Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 16:13
  • 113
    @RobertHarvey: I like to use i as a loop control variable, you insensitive clod!
    – Wooble
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 17:59
  • 82
    FWIW, sometimes people are scared of the backlash at 'easy questions' and feel the need to apologize/excuse their ignorance. If everyone were kind to beginners, it would be less of an issue. Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 19:32
  • 13
    And any question that starts "i wanna"
    – DNA
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 19:32
  • 19
    @thumbtackthief If everyone were to do a bit of research effort before asking a question, (people would be more kind and) it would be less of an issue. Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 19:33
  • 37
    Advanced users forget the degree of difficulty of 'a bit of research effort' for a new user. Either way, there's no excuse for being rude. Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 19:35
  • 30
    @thumbtackthief There's also no excuse for doing absolutely no research effort, which appears to be the case with a massive amount of questions. I, for one, try to avoid being rude, but its really hard when I read some of these questions. Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 19:38
  • 10
    Also block questions that have the PHP tag (just kidding).
    – Geeky Guy
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 19:40
  • 19
    The ability to do your own research and self teaching isn't really related to your level of proficiency. It's a separate skill, and one that is absolutely essential to be a productive participant in this site.
    – Jason
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 19:41
  • 10
    "Plz go easy on me im new. so I was lerngin php how to add to strngis pls" - "This question appears to be off-topic because it is not a question a professional or enthusiast programmer would ask."
    – bjb568
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 19:51
  • 5
    @bjb568 That's not an off-topic reason. Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 19:56
  • 23
    @thumbtackthief - "If everyone was kind to the experts who answered questions and followed some BASIC and EASY rules, there would be no need to be rude". Fixed that for you.
    – DVK
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 20:00

6 Answers 6

69

Providing helpful hints in response to trigger words or phrases seems proportionate and useful (and I would dearly love an automated response to any question beginning with "i wanna" and similar abominations - but that's probably better used as a quality metric to flag for review).

Update: "help at the point of use" is a valuable UI concept - give someone a FAQ and they often won't read it. Pop up the relevant section at a relevant time, and it's much more digestible (provided you get the relevance right!)

However, there is at least one benefit of stating "I am a beginner", particularly for difficult topics, in that it enables the answerer to tune the level of their explanation so that the OP has some chance of 'getting it'.

I have a reasonable rep, but if I were asking a question on , for example, then I would be tempted to mention that I am a n00b, because I am concerned that I'll get an answer along the lines of the infamous:

A monad is just a monoid in the category of endofunctors, what's the problem?

...or maybe something about Zygohistomorphic prepromorphisms, along with a link to a research paper on cutting-edge abstract algebra.

Perhaps the rep of the OP should also be taken into account when deciding whether to auto-nag them?

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  • 31
    "There is at least one benefit of stating 'I am a beginner'" - except that, for the most part, it's just noise, and we edit it out for that reason, not to mention that the exact classification of "beginner" varies between people. The question you ask, the way you ask it, and the research you've done should indicate your proficiency. Not to mention that we should try to accommodate most levels of understanding with our answers - it shouldn't matter if OP is a beginner - someone who reads the answer in future might be - ideally they should also understand. Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 19:49
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    Ideally, it shouldn't matter. But in reality it often does - some topics involve abstractions that take months or years to absorb. An answer that a beginner can understand cannot use any of these abstractions. Nor can it explain them, since many of them have entire book chapters devoted to them. So the answerer is faced with a choice: answer concisely and correctly using advanced concepts - or answer (perhaps less fully) by analogy, code recipe, or by reference to more detailed material, etc.
    – DNA
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 20:01
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    There is often some ambiguity between "I have never written any kind of program before and I am trying to use technology X" versus "I have some experience as a programmer but this is the first time I've touched technology X" - I've certainly seen both situations with the text "I am new in X". There often has to be one question first to establish the asker's overall experience level. Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 20:25
  • 3
    @DNA Welcome to the new SO where it seems Idealism > Practicality
    – AaronLS
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 20:25
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    If you're getting answers that are over your head, you should use comments and edits to clarify what you do and don't understand. "I'm a noob" is void for vagueness -- what, specifically, is the relevant knowledge you already have?
    – jscs
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 20:30
  • 4
    @SList - they most certainly are words in the English language. But if you have a particular dislike for those words (or others) then please feel free to edit the question. Be careful there, you're starting to sound like a snob. Lighten up dude :)
    – CramerTV
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 20:44
  • "Perhaps the rep of the OP should also be taken into account when deciding whether to auto-nag them?" — surely "I wanna do X, plz help me" is worse from a high rep user though? :) Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 21:37
  • 1
    @anotherdave Good point, we clearly need a more complex heuristic that penalises those who should know better, whilst being gently helpful to genuine beginners ;-)
    – DNA
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 22:35
  • 1
    @DNA My experience is that in most cases you can easily determine the level of expertise of the OP from reading the question, and adjust the technical level of your answer accordingly.
    – assylias
    Commented Jun 13, 2014 at 17:29
33

I put together a Data Explorer query that ranks the quality of recent questions that have 'catch' phrases in them. (remember, closed questions get deleted, and are not in SEDE after a while, which skews these results badly). The following two are in the subject line:

Phrase          Matching Closed DownVoted DownvoteTotal DownvotedScore NoVotes UpVoted UpvoteTotal UpvotedScore 

--------------- -------- ------ --------- ------------- -------------- ------- ------- ----------- ------------ 

I am a beginner 375      76     126       -241          -1.912698      186     107     62          0.579439
Phrase      Matching Closed DownVoted DownvoteTotal DownvotedScore NoVotes UpVoted UpvoteTotal UpvotedScore 

----------- -------- ------ --------- ------------- -------------- ------- ------- ----------- ------------ 

I am new to 3192     339    747       -1162         -1.555555      1940    741     602         0.812415

What does this all mean?

  • It means that people have learned not to use "beginner" and instead, 10-times as many say "I am new to"
  • About 1 in 5 "beginner" questions get closed
  • About 1 in 10 "new to" questions get closed
  • about half of all questions never get any votes
  • about a quarter get upvoted
  • about a quarter get downvoted
  • when people downvote, they hit it hard... and there's normally more-than-one.
  • when people upvote, there's also normally a downvote in there too.

Now, what does that mean, well, it probably means people don't vote enough, and people don't edit enough.

In the context of this meta question, it means about 1-in-5 questions with these 'triggers' could possibly benefit from a popup.

How does this compare to other questions? Well, what about questions asked by users with > 2K rep?

MinRep Matching Closed DownVoted DownvoteTotal DownvotedScore NoVotes UpVoted UpvoteTotal UpvotedScore 

------ -------- ------ --------- ------------- -------------- ------- ------- ----------- ------------ 

2000   16186    736    1702      2543          1.494124       8788    6782    15954       2.352403

Here we see that:

  • 1 in 20 get closed (compare 1 in 10)
  • 1 in 10 get downvoted (compare 1 in 4)
  • 1 in 2 get no votes at all (compare 1 in 2 - interesting!)
  • 1 in 2 get upvoted (compare 1 in 4)
  • when questions are upvoted, they get 3 times the votes as beginners....
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    there seems to be a correlation between the reputation and the community response Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 5:45
  • 13
    A question by a n00b you don't understand must be bad; downvote. A question by a l33t you don't understand must be good; upvote.
    – Jongware
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 12:02
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    @FélixGagnon-Grenier It's not because of the reputation of the asker we upvote a post. It's because of the quality of the question. Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 15:11
  • 2
    My pet theory is that it is a simple case of numbers... many of the people who ask bad questions the first-time-round get so pissed at SE for closing/downvoting them, that they never come back. It is natural then that the quality of questions by people who post more than one question is increased... because most crappy posters only post once.
    – rolfl
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 15:19
  • 1
    "About 1 in 5 "beginner" questions get closed" In other words, 80% of beginner questions are not closed, or 90% if you use the 1 in 10 figure. Clearly, some beginner questions are low-quality (what do you expect?), but that is by no means the rule. Commented Jun 13, 2014 at 2:18
  • 2
    @MatthewFlaschen - I made mention of the fact that many (most) closed questions are automatically deleted after 5 days or so. Deleted questions are not populated in the Data Explorer, so what you see as closed questions is really only the closed-questions-in-the-last-of-the-six-week dataset. There are probably 6X as many closed questions (for beginner, new-to, and experienced askers)
    – rolfl
    Commented Jun 13, 2014 at 3:18
23

These are some low-quality questions that contain the phrase "I am a beginner" or the like:

Now, these are some questions that people apparently found useful and upvoted:

My point? You can't reliably determine the quality of a question just by searching for phrases like "i'm newbie", "i'm beginner" etc.

I don't think adding a separate notification pop-up for these kind of questions is worth it. It's not like people are going to read it anyway. They will just continue doing the same thing over and over again, until it reaches a point where they can't ask any more questions.

If you encounter a question that is otherwise good and salvagable, edit it to remove the noise. Those who want to learn will get it from the edit. If you're feeling extra helpful, you can go ahead and (try to) educate the OP in the comments section under the question.

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  • SE has also branched out into more sites. There's well, these.
    – bjb568
    Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 21:26
  • 1
    My personal favorite: Stack Exchange Gardening and Landscaping Commented Jun 11, 2014 at 22:48
  • Either way the phrases are just noise, lets all agree with that ;)
    – Braiam
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 2:02
  • rolfl's answer below has great numbers to look at, rather than selective sampling. You may want to take a look!
    – jmac
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 2:17
  • I just edited the "I am a beginner/noob" noise out of those upvoted examples you give. Because it is just noise. Apologies for sabotaging your examples!! Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 6:47
  • @Jean-FrançoisCorbett: No worries. Here's more of them, if you're interested. Edit away! Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 6:50
  • Pointing at some good questions that contains the phrase proves only that sometimes the question is good. But so what, if the vast majority of questions with the phrase are bad?
    – Raedwald
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 7:04
  • @Raedwald: Yes. As evidenced by the data shown in rolfl's answer below, about 1 in 5 of "i'm beginner" questions get closed. With all such phrases combined together, the ratio will be even higher. Most of the times, these questions will be of low-quality. Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 7:07
  • @Braiam I would agree that calling them noise is a bit rude to the user reading these comments, isn't it?
    – user3717756
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 7:21
  • 3
    @abdellahmansur: Not really, because they are noise. Posts on Stack Exchange sites do not need "Hi/hello" addressing or "Thanks in advance" etc. in it. Stack Overflow is not a forum. Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 7:23
  • 1
    @AmalMurali I know it's not a forum and we don't begin,end questions/answers with "hi"/"hello".. but there's no need to be rude either addressing users mistakes as noise. You'd be surprised how many users change their attitude/habits of writing if you don't address their "things" in a rude way.
    – user3717756
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 7:25
  • 1
    @abdellahmansur: Personally, I don't feel calling things that are noise, noise is insulting. Also, you're not directly addressing the user saying "HEY YOU. YER STUFF NOISE." or something, so I don't see why it is a problem. Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 7:27
  • @AmalMurali It's not a problem. Noise isn't insulting; it's a technical term, 100% correct in this context.
    – user146043
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 23:06
  • @Poldie: Yes, indeed; that's the point I was trying to make. abdellah mansur was the one saying it is insulting, not me. Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 23:21
12

I certainly hope that the quality filter is built using some sort of machine learning approach and not via a list of words and phrases. If that's true, then this question is moot. If you train a classifier on a sufficient body of crap questions, it will learn the clues for itself.

0

My story and thinking of a problem


I joined Stack Overflow two years back, and when I looked back at my old questions and answers, I read many mistakes I made, and I corrected them. I believe that when someone starts asking a question here (even for the first time), he/she may make mistakes, but which should not bother others if the problem is real and clear.

Sometime I couldn't understand the reality of a question


I've seen many questions for iOS (Objective-C), which needs really good experience to work, still they had written, "I am new to iOS...High Resolution Question...Any idea/suggestion?"

I was wonder how a person who is new to the technology and still he's asking such a question which isn't acceptable work for a fresher. Anyway, still I'm not against this, as I thought he may be concerned with that topic and not for the iOS.

Needs improvements everywhere


What the site needs to improve for the users is to teach them how to make crystal clear representation of questions/answers,

  • How to ask - make it like a new user or even an existing user would love to read.
  • Let, tell them with real examples of how to ask, what to ask, and what to not ask.
  • Show them the value of reputation points which they will earn here.

Need of an improved / rich way of asking a question or giving an answer,

  • Autocorrection - while typing a question or giving an answer, look for grammer grammar and spellings mistakes. Allow the user to correct them by hover over it.
  • Give more features when asking a question - highlight tools, colour/font/font size selection.
  • Table drawing to show data tabulated form (see @rolfl answer).
  • Force the user to correct any grammar / spell mistakes before posting a question / an answer.

Make "cron jobs" for the site, which runs periodically, would select questions/answers which marked with "Need corrections flag" - introduced just now!. Will learn the pattern there, and next time will use that wrong pattern for newly questions or answers to check for grammar/spells/pattern of asking. I am not sure how tough / easy it is this to implement, but nothing is impossible to implement. Today or tomorrow we'll need it.

1
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    "Give more features when asking a question - highlight tools, colour/font/font size selection". That's a joke, right? Must everyone's question jump out of the crowd? There are more than enough 24 pt bold questions as it is now.
    – Jongware
    Commented Jun 12, 2014 at 12:06
0

I am noticing a recent(?) trend of putting ‘I am a beginner’ in the question title. Just a couple examples:

While some here have pointed possible benefits of mentioning that in the question body, putting it in the title just adds noise. I think those phrases should be blocked from titles just like ‘plz halp meh’, ‘i have problem’ and similar phrases. Maybe direct askers to mention this at the bottom of the question body, if at all.

1
  • IIRC the title filters only kick in with less than 40 characters, so none of those would have failed it anyway. Commented Jul 27, 2021 at 17:38

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