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I'm sick and tired of people repeatedly spamming the edit queue with minor edits. I want to punish the editors and robo-reviewers and prevent some of them from entering the queue in the first place.

The audits are too easy

It covers the vandalism reject reason, but what about the other ones? A too minor audit could be:

  • Find a question with negative score, fake original version has a random tag removed, edit adds it in
  • Find a post with at least 3 lowercase is, make two uppercase
  • Find a post with at least 2 instances of thanks, remove one

An invalid edit audit could be:

  • Replace all instances of "Javascript" or "JS" with "Java script"
  • Insert markov-chain code of similar tags randomly
  • Add random markdown where it does not belong (vandalism)

Just do something more than gen that you give A fputcsv fileds withing two size is using waitdequeuenotification only. (I don't want my bullets above to be law. I want to get a consensus on what it should be that can then be acted apon, my bullets are just an example)

People aren't getting banned ;(

See:

Too much reputation gain from doing little to nothing

There are some users who have gained 200 rep in one day just from suggesting minor edits. Can we put a daily rep cap on it? I also think the 1k rep all-time cap should be removed, as there is nothing wrong with suggesting lots of great edits and a daily cap would prevent most abuse.

I think a daily cap of 20 reputation (10 edits) is about right, beyond that only good editors remain - the ones that will do it for more than rep.

Just don't allow bad edits to get in the queue

If the edit would work as a too-minor audit, it probably isn't that good of an edit. I think these are too minor:

  • Less than 8 characters in only title
  • Less than 4 tag changes (adding/removing a tag) with no other changes
  • Don't count whitespace or punctuation toward the 6 characters

If the post is know to be bad (-1 score), then more edits are too minor:

  • Only modified title or tags
  • Less than 16 characters (total)
  • Don't count *`-^ or html tags toward the 16 characters

If the post is modifying code more than just whitespace, warn (but not reject) that a comment may be better.

So…

Can something happen? I reject about a quarter of edits as too minor, a sixth as invalid. Most of this can be prevented by the system.


Please note that I don't want these exact ideas ideas to be blindly implemented (I removed the feature-request tag). I want my ideas to be discussed, then implemented. As @mehow pointed out, we need to figure out what the definitions of "too minor" and "invalid" are before making a system from it.

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    possible duplicate of "too minor" edits - better to leave poor quality on the site? Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:18
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    @Manu How is this a duplicate?
    – bjb568
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:19
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    "Find a post with exactly 2 instances of thanks, remove them" - what if this is the only sin of that post? Or did you mean "remove one of them"? Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:27
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    "Less than 16 characters in only title - too minor" - wat? Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:30
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    "Less than 4 tag changes (adding/removing a tag) with no other changes" - hell no. If a post is missing a tag, I will add it even if there's nothing else to fix. Even if there is, I might do it separately. Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:31
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    @Jan Tags aren't important enough to waste 90s of total review time. There must be other things to change.
    – bjb568
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:33
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    @bjb568 but what if the post is good enough already in every respect, except that it lacks a tag, or that it has a tag that is being burninated? Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:34
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    "*`-^" - what if the only bad thing is indentation? Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:35
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    @bjb568 so, yeah, we need to downvote a post before we can fix it??? Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:37
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    @bjb568 as in, "not worth fixing"? What if the downvoters merely thought the post was nonsensical due to some code lost in formatting? Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:39
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    I'm afraid I can't agree with the restrictions you are suggesting. Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:43
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    I guess that most of the new users are not experts, they are beginners. It's difficult for them to get any reputation by answering ( as they are discouraged by veterans to answer if they don't know what they are talking about ). They can ask, but most of the questions they ask have been asked before. By taking away the +2 they can get for each helpful edit you are restricting them from barely gaining any reputation at all. I don't any longer consider a suggested edits queue a problem. I realized at some point that all those approved bad edits are not really THAT bad in the end .
    – user2140173
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 7:58
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    @bjb568 if you don't think answering is very hard why have you only answered 190 (3K+ rep). I have been here just a bit longer than you and have answered 721 questions (15K+ - bounties given). I disagree with you, answering good questions and not the same ones over and over is very difficult.
    – user2140173
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 8:05
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    @bjb568 this, same as audits by paying more attention
    – user2140173
    Commented May 20, 2014 at 8:31
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    You are doing a lot of reviews. I see 8 times as many reviews as posts in your profile. No wonder that this is starting to wear on you, this kind of janitorial work just isn't very stimulating. Maybe it is time that you take a break for a while. Commented May 20, 2014 at 9:21

1 Answer 1

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How about we leave the system as it is and apply a yet-to-be-determined amount of negative reputation for each rejected edit?

From what I understand, there is a ban in place for editors who get rejected too much. Could we have some stats to know the Approved/Rejected ratio? Depending on this, we might want to make the ban perequisites harder on the editors (or not). I also wonder the proportion of skipped reviews, that might indicate the amount of edits perceived as borderline.

Too minor is quite subjective and there are many edits that are borderline. Wherever you put the border there will always be borderline cases. Even if it means larger review queues (and yes, I know I am not a reviewer as of today), I feel somewhat satisfied with the idea that a human is going to review my edits and not some robot executing a set of not-necessarily-well-thought rules.

I think the restrictions you suggest are more likely to make helpful editors a hard time rather than really improve the situation.

And to get back on the subject of tags, which I find very important, it doesn't matter if that's a one tag change. If the question needs retagging, I feel it should and will be retagged. It is a matter of doing things the right way.

For me there is no automated way to detect a bad edit except for obvious ones. Trying to detect the others will only increase the number of false positives.

Plus I think my proposition adds value to the work of the reviewers because they would know that their review carries more weight. On the other hand, the editors would be more careful and those only striving after easy reputation would think twice (and I'm not sure there that many of the latter).

EDIT:

Now about bad reviewers:

Isn't it why multiple people are required to approve an edit?

Maybe, then, increase the number of 'Approve' votes before actually approving edits?

Or, punish reviewers who voted 'Approve' on edits where all other reviewers voted 'Reject'?

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    "How about we leave the system as it is and apply a yet-to-be-determined amount of negative reputation for each rejected edit?" Robo-editing will not stop until robo-reviewing does.
    – bjb568
    Commented Jul 29, 2014 at 12:51
  • I'm sorry, I am not exactly sure what you mean by that.
    – Tonio
    Commented Jul 29, 2014 at 13:00
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    You're focused on editor punishments, and don't think reviewers should be punished for "subjective" (you say you like human reviewing, a defined set of rules would "dehumanized" them - I think you haven't seen enough crap reviewers, a computer is better than an irrational human at almost everything) calls. But the bad editors (which make up a third of total edits) will not stop if their edits keep getting approved. You need to punish everybody properly, if you want anybody do do anything useful.
    – bjb568
    Commented Jul 29, 2014 at 13:27
  • @bjb568 Well, I partially agree with you. A computer is more stable, or steady, than humans are, that doesn't make them better. We use machines in the industry not because they do better than people, they don't, but because it lets you guarantee a minimum quality when humans perform sometimes much better and sometimes much worse. That being said, you have a point about bad reviewers, I edited my answer taking this into account.
    – Tonio
    Commented Jul 29, 2014 at 13:40
  • Increasing the number of required reviews just doesn't help. When 80% of the reviewers will approve an edit that should be rejected then more required reviews makes it less likely that the review will be rejected. This proposal is fundamentally based on the assumption that most reviewers know what they're doing and a small fraction don't. The reality is the case, the majority don't know what they're doing and a small fraction do.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 29, 2014 at 13:55
  • @Servy That might be, SO is community-driven, you can't possibly do it all with robots and rules, you need to rely on good faith and constructive will from time to time...
    – Tonio
    Commented Jul 29, 2014 at 14:17
  • On a side note, the down-vote arrow caption says "answer is not useful". This is a discussion, and I do believe my proposals while not perfect are not useless. Especially so in a thread tagged "discussion", but I might be wrong at least provide some feedback.
    – Tonio
    Commented Jul 29, 2014 at 14:20
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    Applying a small (no more than 2 points, IMO) reputation penalty for each rejected edit is an awesome idea in my opinion. That would be an instantaneous form of feedback, unlike the automatic bans that happen occasionally.
    – kviiri
    Commented Jul 31, 2014 at 11:50

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