20

There is always a confusion of the questions related to digital design, because the definition on the help center mostly covers "software".

  • a specific programming problem, or
  • a software algorithm, or
  • software tools commonly used by programmers; and is
  • a practical, answerable problem that is unique to software development

If a question is directly related to a Hardware Description Language like SystemVerilog, VHDL and so on, the question is on-topic by consensus. On the other hand, many questions don't include any code snippet in HDLs.

Let's have a look at some examples.

  • The first question is about a simulation/synthesis tool. If this kind of tools are treated like software tools, it's fine. If not, we will need to flag too many questions as off-topic. Actually we already have tags for some tools like ModelSim and Vivado.

  • The second question is about timing analysis on digital circuits. It's related to my profession (that doesn't mean I have a good answer for the question), but I don't know whether it is on-topic on Stack Overflow.

  • The third question is about flip-flops. A user has a comment that claims the question is off-topic, because Electronics SE is the best fit for the question.

  • The fourth question is about ASIC and FPGA design. It questions physical performance of the two hardware implementations.

We can extend the number of examples, but these four should be sufficient. I also think that Electronics SE is the best fit for most of the digital design questions, but that doesn't make them off-topic on Stack Overflow. More arguments must be provided for that.

So, here is the question: Is digital design on-topic without HDL code?

10
  • 1
    Forget the whole thing and answer this question: the question is unique to software development? You need no one but a programmer to solve the issue?
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 28, 2017 at 20:10
  • 8
    Before you get into the finer points of "Is it on-topic" and "Is it off-topic", look to the charter of the site. Stack Overflow's mission is to "... build a library of detailed answers to every question about programming". The question to ask first is, "Does this question concern itself with programming or development?" If the answer is No, then stop your classification attempts because its off-topic. The site's mission is not to answer every question a developer has; or answer every question because a tag is present.
    – jww
    Commented Jul 28, 2017 at 20:45
  • By the way, if you think digital-design is bad, then have a look at the docker, ssh, scp or gnuplot tags. Nearly all of them concern how to configure and use commands. According to the site's charter, nearly all of them are off-topic because they don't align with "... a question about programming".
    – jww
    Commented Jul 28, 2017 at 20:55
  • @Braiam My examples probably get NOs for your questions. Only the first example may get a weak YES, because it's related to a development tool (not software, but hardware).
    – user3885596
    Commented Jul 28, 2017 at 21:45
  • 1
    @jww SO is not the best fit for most of the questions tagged with those as well, but a final conclusion may bring a bulk operation (e.g. flagging or migration). It would be nice if the community and/or moderators made a concrete decision for that.
    – user3885596
    Commented Jul 28, 2017 at 22:00
  • 4
    Questions about FPGA, ASIC, HDL, Verilog, VHDL, etc, all belong on electronics.stackechange.com
    – user9993
    Commented Jul 29, 2017 at 13:57
  • 1
    @user9993 If your claim means that they are off-topic on SO, I don't agree about Verilog and VHDL. I don't even question any HDL as I mentioned in the title.
    – user3885596
    Commented Jul 29, 2017 at 21:07
  • 2
    @ahmedus That isn't to say they don't belong on SO -- a single question can be on-topic for multiple sites! But they're all definitely OK on Electrical Engineering.
    – user149341
    Commented Jul 31, 2017 at 18:57
  • Related (about protocols, without any code whatsoever): Are questions about [at-command]s on-topic on Stack Overflow? and Burninate [electronics] Commented Jul 5, 2021 at 21:09
  • For example, "Please note that VHDL is still on-topic here though. Even though asking on the EE site will likely give better answers." Commented Jul 5, 2021 at 21:14

2 Answers 2

20

The first book I ever read about programming video games had not a single line of code in it; all logic was expressed via circuit designs. A soldering iron was the standard editor.

I've also heard that early computers were programmed via patch cables.

I'm glad those are in the past, and that we can use software to tell computers what to do now, up to and including telling them what sorts of hardware we need to build for our programs.

My preference for making these calls always starts with intent: am I an EE focused on designing circuitry, or am I constructing a program that happens to involve hardware? There is a community for each. Let's not be quick to kick stuff off the site based on keywords, but rather seek out the communities that will benefit and benefit from the question. If these are not well-served on SO but can be on EE, direct the asker there - else, leave them where they were asked.

16
  • 8
    Unless they're questions older than 60 days. Then, please don't consider which community they would be better suited for. Consider simply whether they are acceptably on-topic for the site where they're asked. Also, some time ago, I read some good advice about being a bit jealous of your site, and not blithely turning askers away simply because there's another community where their question might also be well received. :-)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 16:29
  • 3
    Good link ;-) There's no time limit about just... Going and asking on another site of course. After 60 days if you haven't gotten an answer, probably good time to just delete and ask someone else!
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 16:31
  • 3
    Yes, fair. The asker might reasonably employ a different decision calculus. Most of the time, though, these Meta Q&A are referenced by curators seeking to ascertain consensus on which types of questions they should vote to close. Thinking that a question asked on SO reeks of EE is not a sufficient reason to close it. The amount of overlap between electrical and software engineering is often underestimated by today's web-going generation.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 16:35
  • 3
    TBF, also underestimated by some EEs. There's a good argument for more sharing of knowledge all around here!
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 16:38
  • 4
    It's unclear what you are attempting to prove by linking your own answer, @Shashank. There's little to disagree with there, other than the implications of the final paragraph. Code is indeed a sequence of instructions, and hardware is not. Unless that hardware is a programmable set of logic blocks, i.e., an FPGA. Based on the statement "Hardware control cannot be reprogrammed, software control can be reprogrammed", we must assume that FPGAs are under software control. Either that, or the dichotomy you're trying to draw is a false one.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 16:48
  • 3
    I'm afraid this was 30 years ago and I've long ago lost track of it. The book was archaic even then - it referred to microprocessors as something of an extravagance. I'm sure it has not been reprinted, but if I ever do find a copy I'll post photos.
    – Shog9
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 16:49
  • 2
    @ShashankVM Programming of computer without text. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENIAC#Programming
    – Chindraba
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 17:02
  • 1
    ENIAC was programmed with wires and plug boards. "After the program was figured out on paper, the process of getting the program into ENIAC by manipulating its switches and cables could take days"
    – Chindraba
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 17:07
  • 9
    Yes, I know quite well how FPGAs work. I lead a team that develops and supports a vast array of data-acquisition systems that utilize FPGAs. The article you linked seems to do nothing but support the point that FPGA programming is... programming. For example, these sentences (and the ones following): "it can be configured to be just about any digital circuit you want. The magic here is that nothing physically changes. You simply load a configuration into the FPGA and it starts behaving like the circuit you wanted." Sounds more like programming than circuit design to me, @ShashankVM.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 17:12
  • 2
    @ShashankVM Perhaps not the exact book user shog read, yet one in the same subject and level. Try reading the Textbook of Video Game Logic vol I.
    – Chindraba
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 18:06
  • This answer is now outdated @Shog9. No one programs using patch cables and soldering irons anymore. We use text editors and IDEs like Visual Studio.
    – user12311164
    Commented Mar 30, 2021 at 11:09
  • 3
    "No one"? That's definitely false. Plenty of people do. Some as a hobby, others as part of their job. You use text editors and IDEs, and so do many programmers. That's fine; we each use what works for us, or what we have to use in order to get the job done. But just because you use something, or everyone in your immediate circle uses something, doesn't mean that no one out there uses anything else. There's a whole bunch of programming still done today that doesn't involve HTML or JavaScript or Visual Studio. @ShashankVM
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 5, 2021 at 5:08
  • @CodyGray are you trying to say I can ask my patch cable programming questions on Stack Overflow, just because it is programming?
    – user12311164
    Commented Jul 5, 2021 at 5:09
  • @CodyGray can you please point to one programming question on Stack Overflow in which the code is not written using IDEs / text editors, but written using a "soldering iron" or "patch cable" or "machine language"? Please don't argue for the sake of arguing. When you are arguing with me, I expect meaningful points or else just shut up. It's gone too far already with the nonsensical arguments such as "patch cables" and what not.
    – user12311164
    Commented Jul 5, 2021 at 5:15
  • 1
    @ShashankVM Perhaps it's because I know Cody somewhat, but when I see him say "reeks", I just read that to mean "smells strongly of" aka "strongly indicates". I don't think Cody has any personal antipathy toward the field of Electrical Engineering whatsoever. The typical negative connotation was either unknown or at least unintended by him, if I had to guess.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 5, 2021 at 16:29
-14

No, even with HDL it is off topic. HDL is not a programming language. It is a description language.

As @user9993 pointed out, electronics.stackechange.com is where all HDL and FPGA questions belong.
Writing software for use on FPGA's (such as petalinux applications and the like) do belong here however, because they are generally written in C, which is a programming language.

Just as @jww stated, Stack Overflow's mission is to "... build a library of detailed answers to every question about programming." The keyword there is programming.

9
  • 3
    I wish you are not correct. Otherwise 9306 questions or more will become off-topic.
    – user3885596
    Commented Jul 31, 2017 at 22:34
  • 2
    While I can understand your sentiment, it ultimately comes down to the fact HDL mean hardware description language. It isn't programming, and by definition disagrees with SO's mission. SO plays loose with this though, and it ultimately confuses some people, in my belief, and makes them think it's alright to post waveforms or FPGA questions with no "code". Sure, it's semantics, but isn't that what's important on this website? Commented Aug 1, 2017 at 0:29
  • 2
    Actually I agree about the "no-code" questions. On the other hand, I think testbenches in HDLs are software.
    – user3885596
    Commented Aug 1, 2017 at 8:05
  • 10
    HDL is still a programming language by any definition. This answer is ridiculous. Do you also believe that we should declare HTML and Bash off-topic?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 15:45
  • 2
    @CodyGray by which defintion is Verilog, VHDL, SystemVerilog or SystemC a programming language? Please quote.
    – user12311164
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 15:51
  • 3
    Virtually any definition of "programming language". Can you note any definition of "programming language" that excludes these?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 16:01
  • 2
    @CodyGray Let me catch you up real quick: one, two, three, four, five Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 16:05
  • 4
    We don't create tags unless there are questions to apply them to. In fact, we can't create tags without a question to apply them to. So, if you think a tag should be created, please include a list of questions along with your proposal. I recommend doing this in a new Meta question, not in a comment. @ShashankVM
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 16:26
  • 4
    Consistency is indeed a virtue, @Zoe. Although it is distinct from correctness. :-)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Feb 20, 2021 at 16:37

You must log in to answer this question.