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Meta Stack Overflow doesn't have a dedicated chat room just for any type of meta discussion, so I've created a basic chat room for meta discussion that can be used as a go-to chat room for the site:

The Meta Room

The name is open to change, as is the option for room owners.

  1. What shall we name it?

  2. Should we have room owners?

    • Yes, If so, how do we choose them?

This chatroom is well under way and developing its culture. It's active. As we have no featured posts at the moment, I figured I'd feature it to help make people aware that it's there.

Our current Room owners.

Interestingly, these room owners are a diverse cross-section of the community and have all had some type of experience in moderation or room ownership either on or off the site.

Culture

The room kinda runs itself. The moderators are exercising a hands-off policy to allow the community a place with a degree of autonomy and open discussion.

  • We have plenty of experienced users, moderators and community managers frequenting the room. So it's a good start for people to get to know other people, have some fun and also discuss issues relevant (and sometimes not so relevant) to the site. We've remained pretty relaxed about scope.

  • We do ask that people do not ping moderators about issues that can be handled by a flag.

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    Possible duplicate: SO Tavern
    – rene
    Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 10:36
  • 4
    Not that it wasn't tried before: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/348373/578411
    – rene
    Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 10:43
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    I took back my previous comment about people constantly butting heads in the chat room as it grossly misrepresented the actual truth. It seemed like I was right the first day - day and a half of it's existence, but since then it's only been proving me wrong.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 8:52
  • @Gimby and since that time, you've not only had a name change, but become a judge and made us all stand there waiting for you to return! Hard time :-}
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 15, 2019 at 13:41
  • @YvetteColomb could we get a list of the room owners in the OP?
    – Script47
    Commented Sep 16, 2019 at 8:23
  • @Script47 see the edit
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 16, 2019 at 8:44
  • @YvetteColomb what's the minimum rep bar?
    – Script47
    Commented Sep 16, 2019 at 8:48
  • @Script47 it was just a thing in my head - there was a regular user in chat who had only 139 rep so in my brain I just went naahhhh that was the only limit. It was very informal and I did it myself to push things along. It seemed to work well. It was purely to jump start the room, not intention of taking it over. At least with ROs on the ground it kinda has structure.. meh
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 16, 2019 at 8:52
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    @Script47 - It's where new users go to get drinks, similar to the high rep bar but more raucous. Picture drinking with Jack Dawson vs drinking with Caledon Hockley. Both fun but it different ways. Commented Sep 17, 2019 at 8:42
  • @RyanfaeScotland oh yeh! I didn't think of it like that - yes we want a sophisticated drinking bar! lol
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 17, 2019 at 9:34
  • You need 20 rep to participate in chat. stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/chat
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 17, 2019 at 10:45
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    And the room should be named Stack Canary Twitter :)
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 17, 2019 at 10:51
  • @Lundin that's actually quite a clever and apt name
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 17, 2019 at 10:54
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    @YvetteColomb Alas, one has to be quite nerdy to get the joke :)
    – Lundin
    Commented Sep 17, 2019 at 10:55
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    @Lundin meta has been hell the past two days, please don't post a meta post asking "is it ok for a mod to abuse their mod superping to get me into a chat room just because ..fun" Please don't do that :)
    – user3956566
    Commented Sep 17, 2019 at 11:00

5 Answers 5

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A name and having room owners (RO's) is not the most important thing. Names can change if needed, RO's will emerge naturally. Keeping such room alive with reasonable/interesting stuff will be the challenge.

We need to work out what is on-topic in that room and then moderate it accordingly.

The room topic could be described as:

General Chat & Hangout for Meta Stack Overflow.

These broaden into covering these topics:

The Meta chatroom is for chatter about:

  • active Meta questions
  • guiding new meta contributors
  • advice on preparing meta posts
  • clarification on moderation policies
  • cooperation between community, meta regulars, RO's, mod & CM team and SE staff.
  • interesting finds from Meta sites around the network

The room is explicitly NOT for any moderation requests. Suggestions that have that smell will be binned.

For all interactions the Code of Conduct is in full force, as is the former be-nice policy. Please flag any message that doesn't adhere to that. When such flags are raised in that room, mark them as valid. It is better to take a short break and carefully reword what you wanted to say, instead of trying to convince someone to accept your snark.

The exact working of the room is codified on Meta and its operational conditions can and should be scrutinized by anyone on Meta. It is not a requirement to have participated in said room.

Occasional cat gifs are allowed. Don't feed the moderators.

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  • rene would you accept being made RO of this chatroom while we sort these issues out?
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 5, 2019 at 14:25
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    @YvetteColomb No, I rather stay out of this Meta sizzle. Better recruit outside of the usual suspects to prevent being accused of favoritism.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 5, 2019 at 14:38
  • but we're all the usual suspects :)
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 5, 2019 at 14:39
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    I'm sure there must be a reasonable RO among that 0,015% that visits from main?
    – rene
    Commented Aug 5, 2019 at 14:40
  • @rene yeh - I think it's that -.00015 that is the usual suspects :p
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 5, 2019 at 15:58
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    @YvetteColomb ".015%" would make an interesting room name
    – gnat
    Commented Aug 6, 2019 at 13:15
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    D̶o̸e̸s̶ ̶t̸h̴i̶s̸ ̵r̷o̸o̷m̸ ̴a̸l̸l̴o̵w̵ ̵Z̷a̴l̷g̸o̴?
    – Luuklag
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 6:58
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    @Luuklag the standard "don't unduely disrupt discussion" applies. So probably yes in non excessive amounts.
    – Magisch
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 8:32
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    Suggested name: "0.015%`. Suggested added topic: "Miscellaneous gardening banter".
    – S.S. Anne
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 11:12
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    What is the issue with moderation requests? Just wondering. Is it to avoid a vote mob situation or something?
    – jrh
    Commented Aug 14, 2019 at 22:10
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    @jrh yeah, it is to give all topics a chance to be discussed with a fresh and open mind. Organizing a mob in a chat room first and then pile onto the post will be a lost and unfair battle. Those kind of groups tend to be biased from the start and it is hard if not impossible to contain or control. Speaking mostly from my experience as RO from SOCVR. But I'm not an RO in the meta room so feel free to bring it up there and have that guidance removed. Maybe my view is biased. You're basically the first user to challenge it.
    – rene
    Commented Aug 15, 2019 at 6:23
  • Sounds like a good reason to me, I'm ok with that.
    – jrh
    Commented Aug 15, 2019 at 11:58
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As I understand things, a long time ago, the Tavern on the Meta used to be for Meta.SO, because, well, Meta.SO and Meta.SE were one and the same. After the MSO/MSE split, though, the Tavern moved to MSE and MSO never got a replacement. This seems like it'd be a rough duplicate of what the Tavern is - a general meta chat.

In that vein, skipping over the name for now, the process for appointing room owners should be much the same - it should be reasonable people who can be trusted to moderate the room. Room owners of a large room have a moderator-like responsibility in that room - they're the "first line of defense" before the diamond moderators, and are generally responsible for what happens in the room. Appoint people who you can trust. (Sure, they appointed me over at the Tavern, but I'll chalk that up to a temporary bout of insanity.)

To find those people, you basically have two options: 1.) hand-pick them; or 2.) ask for nominations and then pick from that pool.

If you have someone in mind who you think would make a great RO - they're responsible, they know the system, they have a sense of humor, they know how to make themselves listened to, whatever - reach out to them. Ask if they'd be willing to take on that responsibility. Don't be surprised if they say no - the people most suited to power are wise enough to know they don't want it.

Otherwise, you can create a meta post and ask for nominations. People can self-nominate or nominate people they think would be suitable, and then you have a pool to choose from.

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    yep and you're right, it's a tavern replacement. I'm trying to give the meta community control, as they've had a lot of autonomy ripped away of late.
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 8:43
  • 5
    @Yvette I'm unsure how a general chat room gives us any control. Could you elaborate? Is the intent here that it's an easy line to the moderators to discuss meta moderation and featuring or something?
    – Erik A
    Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 9:44
  • I'm meaning the naming and possible election of room owners @ErikA It's another avenue for community discussion.
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 9:47
  • Ah, step 1 would be to track down people that actually want to spend time in such a chat room then. I believe that MSO never had such a chat room because nobody wanted one. If someone did, they could've created one at any time
    – Erik A
    Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 10:04
  • @ErikA we have an rapidly increasing number of chat rooms that have popped up under meta posts, so creating a goto seems like a good idea.
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 10:11
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    Not to me. Reading back a discussion under a post will be nigh-impossible if it's in a general chat room. With per-post chat rooms being suggested instead of comments, it already becomes substantially harder for me to keep track of a discussion, if we use one general chat room I probably won't be able to follow specific discussions at all. And the tavern on MSE is rarely used for post-specific discussions
    – Erik A
    Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 10:19
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    Right now there is no general place to say, “hey, I’m frazzled about x” and having a conversation about it. We have posts, and as we’ve seen comments aren’t great for fleshing out minor points of debate. Chat has always been that third place, we just haven’t used it lately for that.
    – George Stocker Mod
    Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 19:29
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    TavernOverflow ?
    – TaW
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 9:58
  • 1
    @TaW or... TavernoverfloW
    – VLAZ
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 10:25
  • TavernoVerflow? Or maybe TavernOVerflow?
    – S.S. Anne
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 11:15
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The chatroom seems to be invisible when looking at "active" rooms on the chatroom list. You have to filter for the room's name or sort by "events" (which nobody does) to find it. Is this on purpose, or at least a known bug?

I find it surprising that some rooms (especially this room) are not shown in the active list. There should be no (intentional or accidental) special-casing. What we could tell based on a quick investigation:

  • there are other untagged rooms that are shown in the active tab (so it's not about number of tags)
  • the room didn't start as a mod-only room, and even if it did it would probably still show in the list (so it's not about room prehistory)
  • there seem to be newer rooms in the active tab (so it's not about the age of the room)
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Name suggestion: The Drawing Board

A place on meta to sketch out SO, drawing pictures of where we stand and where we'll go.

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    Only hand drawn horses, though. Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 10:08
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    I can live with hand drawn horses!
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 4, 2019 at 10:09
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    I love it! My question wasn't well received when I posted on Meta? Guess it's back to the Drawing Board to see if I can get some help cleaning the next one up :p
    – scohe001
    Commented Aug 12, 2019 at 18:48
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    It is hand-drawn circles all the way down
    – TaW
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 9:58
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    Surely it should be hand-drawn unicorns?!
    – Nick
    Commented Aug 13, 2019 at 22:54
  • Hand drawn horse, with hand drawn unicorns which are circled (in hand drawn circles) in case their distinction between the horses isn't quite clear enough (due to their hand drawn nature). Commented Sep 17, 2019 at 12:00
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Super-nice idea!

What shall we name it?

The name is not important, Meta Chat is okay, but the witty constructs of the other answerers are welcomed.

The important thing: Please move the heated debates, off-topic chats there! Don't delete comments, it is so... cruel. It is a lot of work to construct the best possible argumentation in a heated context, and then you come and... delete everything in a glance. It is very painful and demoralizing. Beside the sometimes... really flame style, constructing the consecutive pro and contra arguments is also a try to find something closer to an "objective truth" behind our contradicting personal viewpoints. It is a value.

Currently, as I can see, sometimes you move these comment-chats to the chat. Could you please move them to this "meta chat" chatroom in the future?

On this way, everybody would see all the moved debates in the chatroom, and we all could be happy to see, how rich life is going here on.

The meta would become free from the flamewars, but we still would be able to talk about important matters in the more open context of the chat site.

(It does not mean that everything would be allowed here. I only wrote that more would be allowed than in meta comments, simply because the general tendency of the strictness of the topics is: main site < meta site < chatrooms.)

Should we have room owners?

Yes, the mods. Only the mods.

Yes, If so, how do we choose them?

If you have other room owners than the mods, they will expel everybody with a different opinion as theirs. You mods are on the "short leash", and tend to behave roughly balanced even in opposing views, but as you can see, most of the avid meta users are not so nice guys.

If you give the room ownership to other people, the result will be a yet more toxic and lesser free place for debates, than the current MSO. Please don't do it.

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