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Following the plethora of posts on the "be extra nice" initiative, I started wondering. If the goal is

Create a repository of high quality Q&A to cover programming issues

It seems like the only thing that would be important is that knowledge contained with the users grows at the same rate as new programming technologies.

The sheer amount of users seems irrelevant - even today, in almost all programming issues (barring some of the more esoteric ones, I agree), some sort of response should appear in minutes, if not seconds, which seems fast enough. At some point a question asker cannot react to the responses fast enough.

When a new technology arrives, it is important to get some new users proficient in it, but I don't think that's nearly as much as the "be extra nice" initiative is going for. In addition, some of the experienced programmers on the site (of which I am not) are likely to be some of the first experts anyway, even lessening the need for new users.

The amount of new programmers per year grows much more than the new languages/technologies/common questions, what is so important about decreasing user attrition?

At some point I would expect SO to be saturated, with new good questions being quickly addressed by an existing/slowly growing database. Maybe that point is now?

What about the $$$?

as @Dukeling gently alludes, it is all about the money. So, what are the metrics SO needs to consider? (under construction)

  1. New user growth attrition
  2. Question growth attrition
  3. Veteran user attrition
  4. Good question % of total
  5. New language/technology/API/CS PhD/whatever you want to call it growth rate

If SO focuses heavily on (1) and (2) to account for (5) (and over-doing it), at the expense of 3 and 4, will it really be worth it in the long run?

Or maybe, the most controversial questions, what is the average worth of a new user, after, say a year; Or, how should corporate rank new users by $$$ as a function of time? I wonder if this has actually been done, it does not seem far-fetched.

I want to address the conference analogy made by NicolBolas

The drive home point of the analogy is that a growing user base is crucial to maintain a fast response in the technological evolving world. Especially, in the more esoteric, less followed tags, acquiring a user base is important.

I would like to point out that really is just the gut of my question - In the long run, is amassing the general population of posters to the user base conducive to the betterment of SO (a-la saving the site)? Even for the least visited tags, will it really make them better? The reason I asked is because it did not seem so to me, and offered other metrics that seem relevant, but I may be wrong.

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    You mean apart from $$$? Commented Aug 26, 2018 at 17:02
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    @Dukeling Isn't the business centered around job advertising? Seems like keeping a select group of "snobby elites" would be be better than a huge amount of generic "I learned C today!" users (I know I am generalizing, but that's what you do in business, no?). Otherwise a business owner can just use some other resource locating quality for hire. I think I might even add that to the question.
    – kabanus
    Commented Aug 26, 2018 at 17:05
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    I'm not sure we can make the assumption they want a fast growth rate. We can make the assumption they don't want a permanent negative growth. It's important to run with the facts as closely as possible.
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 26, 2018 at 17:13
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    @YvetteColomb Referring to tim's post, "I'm not going to post the exact rates, and I'm not going to post the exact metrics that we use to consider someone 'lost' as far as likely to re-engage", so there are no facts to run with. My points stands though. I'll even go as far as to ask, even if 0 users join from now until August next year, do you feel the quality/usefulness of SO will plummet?
    – kabanus
    Commented Aug 26, 2018 at 17:21
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    @Dukeling where are the snobby elites today? All I see are deadbeats with homework-dumps:( Commented Aug 26, 2018 at 17:29
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    @MartinJames They're the ones getting reprimanded for asking "what have you tried?" and saying "you can get the answer by typing this question as is into Google". Commented Aug 26, 2018 at 17:29
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    @Dukeling IIRC, 'what have you tried?' is no longer accepted as a comment. In fact, it's actively rejected:) Commented Aug 26, 2018 at 17:31
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    @YvetteColomb A fast growth rate is really the only rational explanation for the nonsense that's been pushed lately.
    – Andy
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 0:20
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    @YvetteColomb That's fair to say I may have misunderstood something fundamental in business, but as I replied to NicolBolas, that is my exact question. Does SO think just amassing users will better the site, and if so why? Will it help the more esoteric tags? Help maintain the prolific ones? That is the entire the point of my question - do we want to add every programmer that is born to the site (exaggerating, I know)? My main point is that technologies are born much slower than programmers, so perhaps relying on some saturation is possible?
    – kabanus
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 5:49
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    @kabanus I didn't think you were being critical at all. I know we're discussing. Increasing the new-user base without discernment is what got us into this problem in the first place (my thoughts). We need to retain quality users who are going to help curate the site and stick around. Currently there's so much discontent, we also need to focus on improving morale for our existing community. I've gone into it in more depth in other posts. I honestly don't know what the answers are. I just have ideas. Not very helpful sorry :/
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 6:10
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    This is just my unsubstantiated pet theory: maybe SE/SO are preparing for a buyout like GitHub. Why else suddenly focus so much on growth and "toxicity"?
    – ohmu
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 16:53
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    We're not preparing for a buyout, not even a long shot. Source: I work here in senior management and have fully-vested options. If you see me tweeting about problems like not being able to decide on what Rolex to buy, worry.
    – user50049
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 17:36
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    I would expect most of SO's revenue (from questions on SO) actually comes from anonymous users, not any authenticated users, whether new or old. (Given that they make up the vast majority of page views, and because most users have the privilege to see much fewer ads.) So what's important is that SO has quality questions that people are searching for and are satisfied with the answers to.
    – Servy
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 18:43
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    It's almost like we didn't learn from history. The WWW mantra of old ("everyone's a publisher!") hasn't made the internet a more reliable source of information, any more than the welcome wagon is going to make Stack Overflow a more valuable resource. SO is an exclusive community, geared towards professional software developers. Being more inclusive is inevitably going to deviate from the paramount objective: Providing quality answers to quality questions. The day my mom decides to ask for help with her computer on SO while browsing Seasoned Advice is the day I'm leaving for good. Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 9:34
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    fyi, the number of "active experts" decreases steadily since 2014. We are currently at 2011 level: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/341448/…
    – jfs
    Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 16:57

4 Answers 4

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This is long, even after I tried to shorten it. You can skip to the bottom bullets for some key take-aways, but if this really interests you, I suggest reading the whole thing. Sorry about the book.

The new user growth rate doesn't have to be fast, it has to be commensurate. And by that, I mean on any random 90-day sampling, you see more users staying and climbing over 250 rep than leaving in aggregate.

Those that leave fall into two major buckets:

  • Got to at least 500 rep with every sign that they could continue to contribute positively. In there, you've got:
    • Made it to 3k+
    • Made it to 10k+
    • Became a trusted user
  • Didn't get to at least 500 rep, in there you've got:
    • Didn't do anything but create an account, favorite and subscribe to a few tags, shared a few posts, etc. Positive but read-only existence, and then vanished.
    • Didn't unlock even basic creature comforts. Maybe 1 or 2 posts.
    • Got to between 50 and 250 rep and just vanished, no signs of contributions not being welcome (by votes / flags / etc).
    • Got between 1 - 50 rep, but obviously struggled (we can usually pinpoint how / why).

So, if you get past 250 rep, you at least (statistically) stand a chance of having another shot at leaving when you hit 500 rep, and then again at regular intervals as you climb the ladder. The bucket between 0 - 250 becomes pretty important because it feeds every other bucket.

People leave for many reasons. Trying to explain everything is foolish.

But, you should always try and figure out what you can learn.

Those that left past getting 500 rep are actually the easiest to explain. We've looked at it over a dozen (literally) ways and no matter how we scope the phenomenon, we can pretty clearly see that:

  • It wasn't us. Maybe they lost interest, changed jobs, passed away (morbid, but common), lost the ability to post publicly about work, etc. In essence, stuff we maybe could capture better and account for? But, if we're honest with ourselves, we probably can't intervene much here, life happens.

  • It was us, and we can clearly see why. A false positive on voting reversal scripts, folks losing rep because someone else removed their account, folks losing rep because something got deleted, or a thousand other little ways where if we look hard enough, one or several events stand out as a probable culprit or at least catalyst. DAG works on mining and running tests around this stuff to try and take advantage of what our own data is telling us.

This is an interesting journey because you often don't realize that you were looking at things completely wrong until you've... well, you've been there, ever had to confront an early decision that proved fatal near the end of a project? That's why we now have a full time data team and UX researchers (I had no idea that was a thing until we hired them) and increasingly better models.

We have historically sucked at parsing outside feedback.

Even considering how much criticism is in the air right now, we open ourselves to more criticism than any mature company that I've ever encountered in the technology sector. In fact for every single site we have, there's an accompanying place where people are encouraged to speak what's on their mind. We call this inside feedback because:

  1. It's a dynamic where we hold all of the power because it's our platform (which is why we try our best to be as liberal as possible and allow as much room as we can for passion as long as an attempt at respect is maintained).

  2. It tends to come mostly from people that know how things work, which is why they can make great arguments for changing things, even if we don't agree with them. The small rep barrier for child meta sites alone pretty much says if you want to talk about how we do stuff, you need some prior participation. Meta means murder and at our scale, the barrier to entry does need to be slightly higher than "I think I might have an opinion about [thing]".

That means, outside feedback generally comes from e-mail, Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, Hacker News, Blogs, Conferences, etc. The only commonality in these sources are that they are extremely difficult to quantify and parse in aggregate. Going back to the people that leave - we can use the same software that monitors our network connectivity to alert us of a sudden change in users we have.

We failed to capture the entirety of users we just weren't getting (which suddenly makes that 0-250 rep bucket a lot bigger), and why, and how much of that was related to the perceived hostility of the site. We knew it was a problem (I've personally lost sleep over it for the last 4 years as I saw trends but had only anecdotal evidence). Until we finally hired and on-boarded people that dream in data, we didn't know how bad it was.

The good news is, it's not that bad yet.

At around 30 - 35% attrition rate on average (that's all I'm going to share, and it's only for discussion), we're not doing too bad. In fact, right now, we're doing pretty darn good. And we absolutely, positively, most decidedly do not want that number to reach anywhere near 50%, because that's the point where stuff gets real and Joel takes away our standing desks.

It's difficult to speculate on prospects for a community of this size because frankly, we're writing the history academics are using to make models. But I (and lots of other folks much smarter than I am) believe that we have crossed an event horizon of sorts, and while new users should never be commoditized as "a dime a dozen", I don't think we'll ever reach a point where we've burned through the market faster than it grows.

But this isn't about $$$. It's about everything.

I guess money is a part of everything, and we're not going to pretend that we're not a business, but stopping there is short-sighted.

Until a few years ago, Stack Overflow was kind of elusive when it came to community metrics. The thinking we established based on what we learned from hundreds of other sites just broke horribly when we applied it to SO. What we knew from the network made what we were seeing on SO make even less sense in many cases; we just didn't have the tools and people we needed to really study it, and we didn't know we lacked those. We just attributed it to 'scale'.

Yes, more users sometimes eventually translates into more revenue for us. In some cases we can charge a little more for ads, in other cases it might inspire more creative partnerships with companies using new technologies as new sub-communities form around those tags. But broadly, more users will not translate into more revenue unless we can find ways to provide enough value to those users that they positively engage.

But had we been able to understand and better parse the different kinds of signals we were getting two years ago or even sooner, you'd have seen us prioritize this then. This is the kind of thing you want to nip in the early stages, so to say, and it's not just Stack Overflow that we're trying to help.

So putting that all together:

  • Our success depends on finding innovative ways of delighting people that tend to come from a very technical audience. Sheer numbers just occupy a database unless we can inspire those folks to do something.

  • We absolutely must course-correct on outright ignoring and failing to act on outside feedback. That doesn't make innovating and delighting folks that stick around less important, it's just a different part of the machine that happens to need urgent attention (largely, because we ignored it, because we didn't see the forest for the trees). All feedback needs sunlight to disinfect and we have to find a way to embrace perspectives of non-participants. We're getting better.

  • We're still a growing and relatively small company with limited resources. While we don't struggle and thrash around in the name of profitability, we're still going to struggle and thrash around as we encounter even scarier problems that come with becoming more established. We're way more public and open than anyone else and as you can see, it has been a heck of a ride. We wish we could do everything, right now, and make everyone happy. We'll get there.

  • We can't say money isn't part of it, we're a business, that's like saying oxygen isn't a part of being alive. And I think it's perfectly normal to connect knee-jerk-ish behavior to the worst possible cause, but we really wish you wouldn't do that, we can't always react to stuff and get sufficiently ahead of it in discussions here in the amount of time we feel that we need to act. We act on strategy, your input is a big part of that strategy, but there are other components.

Speaking of strategy ...

I've pushed my comfort level in the volume of what I've shared, and I'm not going to dive further into strategy with discussions about methodology, how I get my numbers, what we look at, how we plot certain things, etc. This is meta, you're welcome to accept our narrative or create your own, as long as you do it respectfully.

But there's really not much room for anything to hide, there's no boogeymen. It's not greed, it's us being stewards of what we've built.

We will (hopefully, very very soon) return focus to more tangible things that say "We <3 our core users!" instead of offering promises that we're working on it. This will probably resume after we finish annoying the heck out of a bunch more sites getting the unified theme so we can finally have one codebase where new features can just flow without 10 years of code smell.

And, frankly, paying down debt is the focus - everything else (including the sudden need to devote resources to new user experiences and preconceptions) are things that we wish could put off until we finish what we're doing. But when you realize OH CRAP EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE, ignoring or (worse) acquiescing to those circumstances is what leads to failure.

I'm happy to take questions but please understand that I've already over-shared to an extent. After almost 10 years of most of my time sinking into this beast we've built every single day, you can bet I'd be outta here if it was just about the money.

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    The question is: can you differentiate users losing interest, or making this a much lower priority, due to them simply being over the whole idea of helping build a Q&A, versus because they consider too much of the content to be low quality and that it's honestly just too draining to push past to find something actually worth reading, never mind answering. Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 17:35
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    I do not think I could have asked for a better answer. I appreciate your candor and forthrightness. I guess I was under the assumption most programmers (say 99.99%) were familiar with SO only when searching for a question (and not through reddit etc.), so they were not lost in the sense they wanted to join but were put off. It's cool you guys can check that. Do you mind commenting on whether you do compare growth rates to market growth rates? Please do not divulge any secrets, I'm must wondering if it's on the data dream team's mind.
    – kabanus
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 17:39
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    And do you define "leaving" as abandoning their account completely, or do you look at people whose contributions simply dropped down to a near-negligible point? Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 17:39
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    @PaulWhite If we go by the size of debt in terms of touches to effectiveness of helping the sites thrive, mod tools are probably at the top of the list of things we need to overhaul. That's kinda serendipitous, as in order to give mods better tools to handle comments in general, we kinda need to fix all of that. I hope to have some more news on that in the coming weeks.
    – user50049
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 17:52
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    That's a fair reply. I think this post, maybe with the q&a in the comments, should have come way earlier in this new process. Perhaps instead of another blog post... But no use crying over spilled milk, at least for me this post was helpful and even comforting.
    – kabanus
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 18:05
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    I appreciate this explanation, and your recent one on MSE (that Yvette linked from yesterday's question here. I need to study that one a bit more.). You folks, and you especially, are insanely awesome at being open. Thank you for taking the time to write this.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 18:07
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    "At around 30 - 35% attrition rate on average..." I'm unclear what this means. Are you saying the user base is shrinking by 30% to 35% over... some unspecified time period? Or is this a decrease in the growth rate? Or what?
    – jpmc26
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 21:23
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    @TylerH We go more by just rep, and we do make light use of cookies, but we don't use 'sessions' in any sense one might see as conventional (perf and privacy reasons). This limits what we track even when folks are logged-in. We track a visit, but beyond that, you kind a need to do something in order to show as engaged (registration is one of those somethings). So we won't count you as missing if all you did was vote for 90 days, but if that keeps up, you might be 3/4ths missing at 180 days out, based on prior activity, depending on the model used [1/3]
    – user50049
    Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 13:22
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    There are also more absolute models, e.g. "Did they do anything this period? They were present! else, no!" but those paint a very jagged picture. [2/3]
    – user50049
    Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 13:22
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    While we measure this stuff in a variety of ways and we're still making lots of mistakes, we do not go by IP addresses because they simply aren't reliable. We've got offices where thousands of people use the same IP (Hello Samsung! Hello Microsoft! IBM! etc) so it's just noise for the most part. I don't think we'll implement any more advanced tracking metrics post-GDPR even though we could justify a business case for it just out of the potential pain in the butt factor. [3/3]
    – user50049
    Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 13:22
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    @jpmc26 Aggregate (and I hope you understand that I can't be much more specific). It's a combination of "veteran" users that go dark, along with the sum of non-veteran users that essentially just bounce off of us like hitting a wall. I will say there are two reasons why I don't elaborate more. (1) I'm sure the number isn't entirely off-base, but we're still refining how we derive it, which makes explaining it suboptimal at the moment and [1/2]
    – user50049
    Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 13:28
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    @TimPost I don't understand why you would combine users not assimilating with active users leaving. As far as I can tell, doing so mixes separate concerns and doesn't represent any sort of meaningful quantity. The more immediately meaningful quantities are the total user base growth/shrink rate and new user retention, and perhaps some analysis of how they interact. Statistics can be extremely useful, but it is incredibly easy to paint a false picture by focusing on the wrong numbers. You get a more accurate picture by considering a range of them, rather than focusing on one kind.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 15:42
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    @jpmc26: It does represent something meaningful: the flow of users away from the site. Those who were on it who decided not to be anymore, even if they were on it for mere minutes. But don't assume that the number by itself is all they know; that's merely the number Tim is presenting. The aggregate number is one they want to shrink, but from Tim's post (heh), it's clear that they're not ignoring the distinctions of why some users stop using the site. Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 15:49
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    It is rather interesting that you categorize these buckets by rep, when in reality rep is quite a poor classification since how much you get depends vastly on the tag you're in and the time you've joined, so the real measure of participation is constantly shifting.
    – Magisch
    Commented Aug 29, 2018 at 8:09
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    It's interesting this post doesn't mention the quality of users, by this I mean do they all count under "professional or enthusiast"; would a survey be able to discern anything? This point is the most upvoted comment on a related post.
    – jpp
    Commented Aug 29, 2018 at 18:21
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It seems like the only thing that would be important is that knowledge contained with the users grows at the same rate as new programming technologies.

Imagine a week-long conference, where a group of experts are going to present some knowledge. Let's say there are 300 topics that need to be covered. Now, 10 experts could each make 30 presentations, at 4+ presentations a day. Or you could have 100 experts that each make 3 presentations.

Which one is better for the experts? I'm fairly sure they'd prefer to only have to make 3 presentations rather than 30. I'm also fairly sure that they'd prefer to have time to visit the presentations of others.

Having more people around to spread the work out is a good thing. It makes the system more functional. Each user doesn't have to do as much work, and therefore can enjoy the process more.

Furthermore, having more people around ensures that the system remains functional in the event of loss. Consider the conference example. If you have 10 people each scheduled to give 30 presentations, and one of them has to call in sick, you just lost 10% of your presentations. But if it's 100 people, you only lose 1%.

More people creates a more robust system.

The amount of new programmers per year grows much more than the new languages/technologies/common questions, what is so important about decreasing user attrition?

Because user attrition is how sites die.

Every user, no matter how long they spend on the site, eventually moves on. That is the way of things. Whether through simply not having enough time to keep up, deciding to spend their time on something else, or through actual death, current users will eventually become former users.

A site has a healthy ecosystem if it creates more long-time users than it loses. And that process requires having a regular influx of new users. For every 100 new one-and-done new users, you might get 1 to stick around for the long haul. And it is those users who become long-time users that are responsible for keeping the site around, for becoming part of the site's ecosystem.

A site that experiences a net-loss of long-time users is a site that is dying. Once the site gets below a critical mass of skilled participants, there simply won't be sufficient expertise to make the site functional and useful for people.

Which brings us to:

even if 0 users join from now until August next year, do you feel the quality/usefulness of SO will plummet?

That all depends on where you look, doesn't it?

From a quick look at your profile, you spend most of your SO time in the Python tag, one of the more popular tags on the site. A year's worth of no new users (and therefore significant negative user growth) probably won't change much for that tag.

What about less rich tags? In some cases, there are maybe 3-4 people who keep those tags functional. If they go away, those tags stop being functional until someone else shows up to pick up the slack. And of course, with no new users ever becoming long-term users, there will be far fewer chances for replacements (only from existing users who pick up that technology).

Your statement is the equivalent of "well, we've got lots of money now. Why not quit our jobs and live off of our savings?" I hope you can see why that's not a fiscally sustainable long-term strategy. Nor is living paycheck-to-paycheck: only keeping around the bare minimum to keep the site running effectively. That is a terribly fragile existence, financially and for the site.

SO is where it is because it gained a wealth of skilled users. If there has been a determination that we're losing that wealth, then that's a problem that is best fixed ASAP.

If you're flying a plane that starts losing altitude, it's better to do something about it when you still at 30,000 feet than when you're at 300.

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    A sane and patient answer.
    – user3956566
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 4:44
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    It really comes down to numbers then doesn't it? I made the argument, which you may have missed, that people are responded to in minutes, often seconds. In your analogy, that would be someone coming off the street to the conference, throwing a topic, and within seconds gets another lecture (whether good or bad). So it is not enough to throw around we "are living off savings". That same comment you quoted points out we have no facts to work with - are we in a deficit? And the entire premise of the question asks, what deficit should SO care about? How many people of the street? Lecturers?topics?
    – kabanus
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 4:52
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    @kabanus: "I made the argument, which you may have missed, that people are responded to in minutes, often seconds." And I made the argument that this "all depends on where you look". You post in one of the most prolific tags on the site. Not all tags are so blessed. Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 4:56
  • By the way, it's nice (pun intended) to see a long time veteran user stand up for etiquette and good behaviour. Some of us are plain rude, regardless of quality, but we have tools for that as well. I did not see this discussed, but veteran and new user rude are really different things. I do not think they need to be handled the same way. (Off topic)
    – kabanus
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 4:57
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    @kabanus: "That same comment you quoted points out we have no facts to work with - are we in a deficit?" Do you expect SO the company to lay out whatever data they have to us before making decisions for the betterment of their own company? If they're willing to have one of their employees come out and say "we have a user attrition problem", the way I see it, you can either choose to believe them or not. But if you're willing to disbelieve them without foundation, then that means you don't trust them. So why would you trust any evidence they would have presented? Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 5:00
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    Your answer is the reason I am not answering. It is a real gem. I like the analogies used, especially the conference. I also do not think that money is a core factor here considering all the people who work at the company and their general mantra of making the internet a better place. Fundamentally, there were issues with new user retention, and it is getting attention.
    – Travis J
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 5:39
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    The size of the audience at the conference matters too - few will care about 100 experts chatting amongst themselves somewhere, but add an audience of 100k and people will take notice. Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 7:17
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    @kabanus «it's nice (pun intended) to see a long time veteran user stand up for etiquette and good behaviour.» The implication here is not appreciated. Where exactly do you see long time veteran users standing up for being rude?
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 18:12
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    @JoshCaswell: "Where exactly do you see long time veteran users standing up for being rude?" I can't say I know what he's talking about specifically, but there's this. The problem usually manifests itself through plausible deniability; if there's some way to interpret a comment as not being rude, then they'll defend it as being fine. Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 18:16
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    @JoshCaswell I did not single anyone out, and I do not wish to. Is it really necessary I link to something? It will be both subjective and controversial. Maybe it is better to say I think some of the type of comments some of the users are defending (not just veterans) seem to me rude.
    – kabanus
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 18:16
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    Uh, wow...I haven't read that fully yet, but yes, @NicolBolas, that's definitely a -- discouraging -- example of defending rudeness. Yikes.
    – jscs
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 19:09
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    "A site has a healthy ecosystem if it creates more long-time users than it loses. And that process requires having a regular influx of new users." Still, maybe SO should focus more on the new-user-to-long-time-user conversion rate than on a high influx.
    – Bergi
    Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 9:31
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    "it is those users who become long-time users that are responsible for keeping the site around, for becoming part of the site's ecosystem." -- And it's believed that SO will keep more of the best of them by policing of every word that comes out of their mouths for subtle indications of having the personality of a programmer. How was that assumption validated? One of the things we used to do on SO under the bad old rules was to warn folks against optimizing away any inefficiencies they hadn't measured, or without considering what the optimization may cost elsewhere. Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 18:29
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    @EdPlunkett: "subtle indications of having the personality of a programmer" Is this the "personality of a programmer"? Because I know plenty of programmers who aren't like that. Similarly, I still have the ability to warn people off of premature optimization without being a jerk. Users are not being asked to leap a particularly high bar. Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 19:08
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    @NicolBolas Those aren't subtle. Commented Aug 28, 2018 at 19:21
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  • More questions (more money)

    If you want to be the go-to resource for just about every professional programmer in the world, you need as many questions as possible to make it more likely that any given question is already on the site. More users = more questions.

  • Better users (more money)

    If people are rude to one another, that makes your experts not want to be here as much as the target of the rudeness doesn't want to be here.

    Eventually you'll just be left with the blind leading the blind, with some grumpy people trying to chase them off their lawn.

  • Public perception (more money)

    If the general public views it as a toxic place, that makes it much less valuable in just about every way (advertisers, and shareholders, wouldn't want to be associated with it, nor would they want much to do with the users who come here).

  • Money

    More users = more money.

    More money = more money.

  • Some ideal vision of what Stack Overflow should be

    You mean like a thing that generates lots of money?

Can the site survive if growth stagnates / decreases for a few years?

Probably, but the longer that goes on, the bigger the problem will be, and you'll need to deal with it at some point.

Of course none of this is to say I actually agree with how they're going about all of this.

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    Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Aug 27, 2018 at 14:41
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I was intending to make this a comment on Tim answer, but discovered that it was applicable to the actual question.

I have a problem with the concept of "new user growth rate", for a simple line of questioning: what is the main motivator for people joining the site? Since the world is awash with questions, I would say that the main reason people have to join the site is to ask a question. Even without a query I would be hard pressed to find that the first actions people do upon joining the site is not ask a question.

But that's not my problem with the concept, but the implications of such reasoning. The problem with said concept is that due the nature of the Q&A model, the natural thing to see is actually a plateau of new questions (and possibly a slow down), which would translate to a plateau of new users. If 95% of the users of the site (not accounts) are finding their answers through google, as it was claimed by Shog, then the metric to measure the health of the site is misguiding. The user growth rate is important to SO, but for measuring poor health: people are not finding the answers they need.

I would claim that if SO wanted to measure health, it should measure new answerers growth rate. Also the answerers attrition rate. If those metrics are positive and near 0, then the site is healthy and it grows its value.

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    There's a "wikipedia" like cut-off for certain; a time comes when, barring new features, the breadth of any given language or tool has been covered. At that point what you end up is getting mostly duplicates that essentially point out the dozens of ways it occurs to folks to search for essentially the same thing. But, this varies pretty significantly by tag. We do account for it, but we're pretty far from reaching that plateau in most major tags as far as we know, but we still kinda stink at identifying duplicates accurately and that's a big canary.
    – user50049
    Commented Aug 30, 2018 at 12:44

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