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This appears to be a frequent occurrence.

Some user is frustrated by his/her experience on SO. They come to Meta. They may use words such as "those arrogant SO vigilantes who closed my question."

Despite all this, there is a well-meaning in-scope Meta question at the bottom of it all. Nobody is voting to close. You just don't agree with their tone or proposal.

What do you do?

  1. Downvote, as you disagree.
  2. Flag as Rude.
  3. Edit out the 2 impertinent words in their post.
  4. Make a quip based on the user's actions or choice of words.
  5. Vent your disagreement in comments.
  6. Answer the question, given it is in scope, if you have an answer.

The general response is a combination of 1 + 4 + 5.

I suggest 3 + 6 is a better response, with a preference for a constructive answer. "You're wrong for X, Y & Z reasons" is a valid answer, but qualify it with what can be done, if possible.


Now to the specific question:

What to do about good questions (ie. documentation-related) being closed too quickly

The questioner is clearly frustrated. He originally used scathing words such as "arrogant" and "vigilante" - but, in my opinion, pretty decent language versus what usually comes up in Meta.

The typical, upvoted answer, as in this case, answers his question and nothing more. Basically, he's wrong. For reasons W, X, Y & Z.

Well, who benefits from all this? We have another disgruntled user who gets told he's wrong. Great. Meta fraternity is happy to have dealt with another misguided user. Excellent, job well done.

We could kindly advise him that there's a dedicated section on SO (tag wikis) for collecting links to official documentation. Short and simple.

The purpose of this post is to promote discussion.

Should we look to help users who come to Meta as well as point out where they are wrong, or are we better off just chastising them.

Disclaimer: This is not an attack on any individuals who commented or posted an answer to this question. Their feedback is welcome as always.

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  • 3
    I resent that. I only read down to "I suggest 3 + 6 is a better response" before downvoting. I didn't even know who had posted it. Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 3:25
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    Generally, people who use such scathing words already have their minds made up about what the community is like, and efforts to help them tend to go unappreciated. Might as well not waste your time and focus on those who will actually appreciate it.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 3:37
  • We could kindly advise him that there's a dedicated section on SO (tag wikis) for collecting links to official documentation. Am all for it if these users actually take the advise and respond politely in kind. But sadly I have yet to witness that.
    – Suraj Rao
    Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 5:33
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    @BoltClock I disagree. Sometimes, people are so upset at the moment they use injudicious language. But a useful answer - put it in a wiki - can help. And if not help that individual, someone else. You can't judge in this venue who "will actually appreciate it". Remaining objective and providing information is seldom a "waste of time". Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 5:45
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    @Cindy Meister: If your goal is to set an example for others to follow, irrespective of the OP's agenda, that's fine, and certainly not a waste of time. I've posted objective answers that serve primarily to inform, or even fact-check if the OP has gone so far as to fabricate tall tales to disparage others in the first place, and don't make a heroic attempt at serving the OP's interests or placating them when it's clear that neither having an open mind nor a constructive discussion without name-calling are among their interests. (I'm not sure why a wiki would be necessary in most situations.)
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 6:07
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    @Cindy Meister: As for people who are upset at the moment, it's equally seldom that I get positive responses or 180s out of people who are still upset at the time. This is why giving yourself and others time is so emphasized as a soft skill, and why "does not appear to seek input" is a close reason. Trying to placate someone while name-calling is in their mind still a totally acceptable way to communicate is futile. But maybe I've just dealt with too many people who maintain their negativity regardless of how much time or TLC they're given and not enough people who eventually see reason.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 6:13
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    The vast majority of such posts show no research into how Stack Overflow or Meta works or any knowledge of prior discussions. That's why they get downvoted, not (just) because they have an inconsiderate tone. If that's the only problem with the post, 3 + 6 does already happen.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 6:48
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    @BoltClock All you say is true - and I can identify with "It's happened to me too often". OTOH it's a warning sign when we (and I do mean we) have knee-jerk negative reactions. In my case, it's a sign I need a break. In the specific case which prompted this question I can feel the OP's frustration. Granted, it should have been better directed at the software manufacturer. But the language used wasn't that bad, when I compare it to other rants I've seen. The person might, indeed, have had a positive reaction to the proposal that the links could be copied to a tag wiki. Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 7:56
  • @BoltClock, Regarding "don't waste your time" - entirely valid response to this Meta. Except for 2 things. (1) My response is shorter than the others; literally 2 sentences; I suggest if we are going to "waste time" let's waste as minimal time as possible and, while we are at it, be helpful. (2) If the question is so bad people should be voting to close versus actually answering, which isn't happening either.
    – jpp
    Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 8:45
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    A little patience goes a long way. I've had a few users who calmed down and tried to do better. We should keep in mind that, for a new user, Stack Overflow is a place with a lot of crazy rules. We know the "how" and "why" of all these rules, but new users don't. Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 9:32
  • @jpp this is meta. and posts shold not be closed unless they are grossly offensive. In this case, there was a useful answer/suggestion supplied. Besides, when measured against the usual ' ego-tripping nazi bullies, preying on poor, helpless new users', yet another slap in the face for SO user-moderators is nothing. Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 9:47
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    I downvotes this too. 'Should we look to help users who come to Meta as well as point out where they are wrong, or are we better off just chastising them' is a question that implies a confrontational approach from meta users is common and is designed to put anyone who complains about getting slagged off on meta as being on the wrong side of an argument. I don't like being insulted, and I don't like political games that suggest that a submissive rolling-over is the 'right' response to it. Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 10:30
  • I disagree with the picture you paint here; where some users "vent", "downvote", and "quip"; and others "edit" and "answer". I don't think your choice of words reflect the truth (users reply in comments, not necessarily "venting" or "quipping"); and I do not think this two camps actually exist. A lot of the users that are replying in comments, no matter how, are also answering and editing. Your question starts off from a false premise, and I personally believe that the example you chosen is not a good one, as putting your answer as representing one camp doesn't work as your answer is poor.
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 10:31
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    By grouping "venting", "quipping" and "downvoting" you seem to be saying that that there is something objectionable in downvoting. (The preferable behavior of "group 36" includes "editing" and "answering", but not "downvoting"). There is nothing wrong with votes (up or down). It's the main way to express opinions about content in the network.
    – yivi
    Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 10:38
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    A little late to this party, but I think my poem in my profile is quite related. You can also find the original here.
    – Kendra
    Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 21:12

1 Answer 1

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Edit out the 2 impertinent words in their post.

The problem with this specific post and these kinds of posts in general isn't just the most obvious, direct insults. It's also:

  • ranty noise
  • sarcasm
  • the accusations that other users don't read/think/etc.
  • the accusations that other users only want to down vote/close/delete
  • describing the position of other users in the worst possible way despite it being untruthful
  • the overall assumption of malicious intent
  • not addressing the actual reasons behind the rules in place

An edit can't fix the last point but fixing the rest means deleting and re-wording a lot more than just a couple of words. Normally users making these posts don't want you editing them and attempts to do so result in edit wars and accusations of censorship.

It's not worth it to try to fix it (or flag it as "does not appear to seek input") until the OP starts responding to comments. Then you can tell whether they just wanted to yell at someone or were actually trying to have a discussion.

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  • There is a dichotomy in this argument. The question is awful, you shouldn't fix it unless OP is responsive. I can agree with this. But surely this means an answer is also unwarranted? Or is it OK to answer ridiculous, ranty questions? I can hardly see OP is encouraged to come back with the upvoted answer. When I was a new user - no, wait, I am a new user - this would make me run away. Eureka! That's exactly what everyone wants.
    – jpp
    Commented Apr 16, 2018 at 14:50

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