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I flagged an editor who keeps adding random bold/italics/quotation/code formatting to posts, most of the time out of the blue.

There seems to be a clear consensus among the community and moderators that such edits are not OK. See for example:
Are **edits** which `decorate` the post with > markdown good?
A user seems to be making a lot of unnecessary formatting edits
These threads have, by meta standards, an almost overwhelming consensus with very few people disagreeing on this moderation policy.

Yet the flag was declined:

User x is repeatedly making completely superfluous and incorrect formatting edits to posts. Seems he's been doing this a long time too - long history of similar "vandalizing" formatting edits. – Lundin

declined - While some of the edits lack a certain style, overall the edits of this user appear more useful than not.

The user is active and has 65 suggested edits since August 1st. Because of the rejected flag, I now manually checked every single suggested edit. Out of the 65 edits, I can find less than 10 that don't contain nonsense formatting and can pass as useful — mostly these were code formatting-only edits. But the vast majority of their edits is just a form of vandalism, most likely for the purpose of farming reputation.

It seem pretty clear to me that this user needs a nudge so they stop doing this. Most of those edits are in need of rollbacks. So what am I missing here?

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  • 30
    Maybe more worrying is that most accepts are caused by OP's approving them.
    – rene
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 9:54
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    Even if (somehow) you agree with adding the styling, the edits do seem very minor and give off a very reputation farming vibe
    – George
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 9:56
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    @George there are not "very minor" edits, there are not "minor" edits. Stop that. Either the edit improves the post or doesn't, focus on that.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 10:17
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    @Braiam There are indeed minor edits, they could edit a post to include a few full stops, maybe add a few apostrophes, while this may improve the post from a punctuation perspective, it doesn't really add much and could stop some lower rep users from actually adding a significant improvement on post as they'd have to wait for it to be reviewed. So although they do improve the post they could actually be detrimental.
    – George
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 10:26
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    @George again, Shog killed the "minor edits" when he removed that reject reason. Stop using it as qualifier. You shouldn't think whenever an edit is minor or not. Focus on whenever it improves the post or not.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 11:30
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    @Braiam You seem to be missing my point, I'm not saying minor edits should be rejected, they're fine as edits, but when they have to be reviewed and approved and can potentially hold up other more substantial edits, then they become pointless but not bad, but not great edits in my mind. Just to reiterate, I'm not saying minor edits should be rejected, just discouraged unless the edit doesn't have to be reviewed (which I think is 2k rep) Also I'm not talking about the edits in question, like you I'm talking about edits in general.
    – George
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 12:00
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    @George you seem to be missing my point. Continuing to qualify a edit as minor, however that should be defined, is perpetuating something that SE wants to explicitly eradicate. One should stop calling any edit as "minor" altogether. SE wants everyone to focus on whenever an edit improves the post or not, as the sole indicator of quality of an edit and don't even consider anything else.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 12:04
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    @Braiam The reject reason too minor might have been removed but some edits are still too minor, they fill up the queue and usually don't fix enough to actually make the post good. And George is just saying (as I understand it at least) is that these minor edits are fine but not if you do minor edits for rep farming by suggesting a lot of them (and thus filling up the queue).
    – EpicKip
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 12:20
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    Based on your situation I'd say this needs an explanatory response from the rejecting moderator. Have you considered adding a support tag to the question?
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 12:43
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    I told the user to stop in a comment and it seems like he understood that what he was doing was bad. Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 12:58
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    @Braiam I've had the same discussion with you before, you try to put the fault of the editor on reviewers. An edit does not become good or substantive when a review decides he can't/won't fix the mess (I will reject a very very minor edit instead of improving it if I know nothing of the topic say c++ or php)
    – EpicKip
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 13:10
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    @Braiam they have, this link is in their post and will direct you to all of the user's edits. A few specific ones stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/17216352, stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/17209281, stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/17209040
    – George
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 13:38
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    You're missing the classic Reject an already-approved suggested edit when rolling it back on MSE from your list of examples.
    – Ben
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 13:55
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    @Braiam but the issue is, it's not just something wrong with one or two of their edits, it's to do with most of their edits. So pointing to a user profile (Which they shouldn't have to do as the flag is on an action that user has done) should be fine. I'd image a mod would appreciate just that rather than 50 links. It's like saying there's snow on the mountain over there, pointing to it should suffice, you wouldn't be expected to climb the mountain and pick up some up to bring back to show.
    – George
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 14:41
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    And what's wrong with moderators (or anyone, really) disagreeing with a community manager? They aren't gods. The meta-rule is that the site is ultimately moderated by the community, so if the community is in staunch disagreement with the CMs, then it makes perfect sense for them to express that. If the CMs really want to prevent us from doing something, then they'll have to remove the option, not simply post their opinion on Meta.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 6, 2017 at 11:59

1 Answer 1

-60

Forget this specific case, here's what you should do in posterity. You shouldn't flag users for "useless formatting edits". You should flag users for:

  • vandalizing (and the reviewers for approving such edits);
  • introducing plagiarized content; or
  • hurting readability consistently

You didn't flag for any of those reasons. Unless you can demonstrate that an editor is reducing the quality of a post, you shouldn't issue a flag and instead just rollback the specific edits you believe reduced the quality of the post.

As a rule of thumb, ask yourself this: are those posts better now than before?

If yes, use that as evidence. That would give the moderator something concrete to work on, otherwise your flag would be declined.

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    @Braiam, how is this answer any different to the one you deleted a minute ago (other than some formatting differences within the last paragraph(s) and the bolded title)?
    – Rob
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 13:20
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    Why I don't mind talking about the general in the comment I think this question would be better suited to an answer that addresses these specific edits, which in this case the "useless formatting edits" would fall under "hurting readability consistently". FYI the penultimate sentence is still phrased incorrectly.
    – George
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 13:23
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    @Rob Braiam asked me to remove my comment, as they believed it was causing people to misinterpret their answer. A similiar thing has, in fact, happened to me as well. So I am sympathetic to this concern. Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 13:26
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    Because you shouldn't flag users for doing "useless formatting edits". Citation needed. At best, that seems an overly broad misinterpretation.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 13:31
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    Why the heck the commentary that explained quite clearly the difference between my previous answer and this one removed?
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 13:34
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    I'm having trouble thinking of issues that would be more pressing for a moderator than a user suggesting bad edits and people approving them. This causes damage all over the site that is very difficult and very disruptive to repair. It's a lot worse than a comment-posted-as-answer here or there. It's certainly a lot more pressing than a bunch of "no longer needed" flags on comments.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 14:22
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    Rolling back the edits doesn't solve the problem at its root. People who consistently approve bad edits should be instructed and possibly banned from reviewing for a period of time. People who consistently suggest bad edits should be similarly instructed and banned from editing for a period of time. None of these are things that a normal user can do, which is exactly when a moderator steps in. I know you think all reviewers are clueless buffoons, but I still believe that a series of erroneous reviews is an exception.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 14:33
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    I didn't look. I wasn't the moderator who processed that flag. The point is, this is the type of thing a moderator should look at, so I'm disagreeing with your claim that it is not.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 14:40
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    @user000001 Useless edits that require approval are bad edits.
    – yivi
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 15:55
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    Are you seriously defending that useless edits are not bad edits?
    – yivi
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 18:13
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    @user000001, if they are useless and require resources to deal with them, they are bad. They cost something and we get nothing, since we've already stablished that they are useless.
    – yivi
    Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 18:29
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    @user000001: There's a reject reason for edits that don't improve anything. Thus it is codified that useless edits are bad edits and should be rejected. Commented Sep 5, 2017 at 20:56
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    I didn't like how you were shouting in your post so I took the liberty of formatting it. Ironic, isn't it?
    – cs95
    Commented Sep 6, 2017 at 8:04
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    @Repmat There is no "downvote hell". Simply most of the the community that passed through disagreed with this answer's point of view. Voting is different in meta. The rational for treating minor edits that require approval differently than more significant edits (or edits that do not require approval) has been explained several times in this thread, in the question thread, and in elsewhere in meta.
    – yivi
    Commented Sep 6, 2017 at 8:44
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    Still, passing moderators have disagreed on being "bothered" with this, the consensus is, apparently, firmly against your POV, and I for one don't care for your tone and manner. There is no need for this level of vehemence and language. Please, try to be more respectful of your peers.
    – yivi
    Commented Sep 6, 2017 at 10:27

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