50

This question got me thinking...three users were able to approve edits to a tag wiki that they don't have any sort of showing in.

enter image description hereenter image description hereenter image description here

(I'm sure that third user had a momentary blip, and that his C++ tag score is so innumerable that it can't appear in sorted order.)

The concern that I have with this is that it leads to very poor reviews of the tag blurb and content, and could lead to misleading or damaging information being spread through those.

What I'm proposing here is hopefully a simple system to prevent bad edits to tag wikis.

Any user that is reviewing any given tag must meet this criteria:

  • If there is at least one gold badge user in it:
    • One must have a bronze badge in the tag - this is enough to establish familiarity with the content material to know what's good, bad, and/or ugly.

  • Otherwise, the user must meet one of these two criteria:
    • Be a trusted user (been around the system long enough that the system and community likely trust you to not mess things up too badly), or
    • Be one of the top 20 users in the tag.

Suggesting edits to the tag wiki and excerpt will remain the same.

A cursory glance at the bronze badges page suggests that there's less than 3K users in any one tag; this reduces the surface area of potentially poor edits. This may also introduce the scenario in which there aren't enough people reviewing the less boisterous tags, but the total amount of trusted users in the system (ballpark about 1.8-2K) should cover that.

Of course, this is open to suggestion. Hopefully this curbs bad edits to tag wikis.

13
  • really good idea .. and trusted user with bronze badge and other user with silver badge will also work Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 6:10
  • Both demographics are so small though; I would imagine that only a bronze badge would suffice. There are few enough people with the bronze badge in a tag, that I'd wager trying it with those people alone would be a good idea.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 6:23
  • 27
    What about new tags? Since people stint have a bronze badge in that goes would that wiki be updated?
    – Howli
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 7:28
  • +1. I have been talking about this for a while, but some people seemed objective to it. I am happy to see you bringing this up. Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 11:08
  • 9
    That could be a problem for low-usage tags. For example, I've had the gold badge for ssl for a while, yet I only got the (only) tls bronze tag a couple of days ago. (It's a particular case I suppose, because they were made synonyms about a year ago anyway.)
    – Bruno
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 11:16
  • 1
    @Howlin.Good Point.So to remove those problem why dont we have some thing called Friendly tag.For example when it comes to php in most cases it is tagged with mysql or laravel etc.So why cant we create something like that and allow edit approvals for those whose have scored on tag and friendly tags ?
    – krishna
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 12:07
  • 1
    Who decides what these "friendly tags" are, @krishna? And who maintains that list?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 13:19
  • 2
    @CodyGray For existing tag we can do same like tag synonyms. we will ask users using those tag to propose friendly tags and for new tags let moderators or others with bronze badge of the proposed tag can propose and peoples using those tags can vote for approval
    – krishna
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 13:22
  • I don't have time to read all the comments, so I apologize if this has been mentioned already. I think we should consider extending the idea that only badge holders (say silver or gold) should take certain kinds of actions on questions with those tags should be extended to other actions, such as closing questions. I've seen users with little or no score in git close a perfectly legitimate Git question as "belonging on Super User". Of course, we'd have to make special rules for tags without a lot of gold-badge users.
    – user456814
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 17:46
  • @Cupcake: The special rule that Ben Voigt proposed was recently incorporated into the suggestion. Would that appease/suffice as a "special rule"? The only real case I didn't consider was a tag without many gold badge users, which is far more common than I had believed when I wrote this at quarter-til-1AM.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 6, 2014 at 18:35
  • Wouldn't it be sufficient to simplify these rules and remove gold badge condition. Just allowing trusted users, users with bronze badge, and top 20 users on specific tag to accept edits.
    – mip
    Commented Jan 22, 2015 at 15:18
  • @doc: Not so sure about that; the gold badge restriction was there to likely prevent bogus reviews by those who weren't familiar. Ben Voight's suggestion below isn't that bad; it's workable and offers a happy medium in my mind.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jan 22, 2015 at 15:47
  • @Makoto it would be best if edit was visible for users familiar with a tag (bronze badge+) for let's say first 48 hours. Only if there's no reaction make it visible to high rep users. This guarantees that edits won't be pending forever.
    – mip
    Commented Jan 24, 2015 at 10:36

2 Answers 2

18

I propose a simple additional rule so that it doesn't adversely affect low-volume tags:

  • If any gold badge has been issued in the tag, all edits must originate from or be approved by at least one user with either
    • bronze badge in the tag, or
    • listed in all-time top 20 (?) users in the tag

There might be a need for suggested wiki edits to actually trigger notifications to gold badge holders in the tag (maybe only for tags where the number of gold badge holders is not more than a dozen), in case they don't frequently check the review tools.

19
  • 5
    Unfortunately, I suspect that wouldn't be enough, because you often have a single gold badge in small tags. sas for example, I have a gold badge - and there aren't even enough other users with remotely high rep to close questions most of the time. While there are several bronze badge users, they're really not on often enough nor do I suspect they review all that often.
    – Joe
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 15:34
  • @Joe: We're talking about wiki edits... you don't need a large number of users, at all, for those.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 15:38
  • 3
    You need people reviewing. Small tags may not have people reviewing even if they have badges ...
    – Joe
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 15:40
  • +1 In small tags badges are acquired mostly by perseverance because both votes and questions are rare, for example in sparql I am the only one with a bronze/silver badge (there are no golds) yet the top sparql users includes people I would consider world leaders in the tag such as the authors of the W3C specification and of the leading reference implementations
    – RobV
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 15:55
  • 1
    So perhaps the modification should be "If any gold badge has been issued in the tag, no edits or reviews by users who don't hold a bronze badge or are in the all time top users"
    – RobV
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 15:57
  • 1
    Ok, top users in the tag I can agree with. I don't like the question's proposal to allow "trusted users", which sounds purely rep-based, to make edits.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 16:41
  • @Joe: Also, if you're the gold badge holder, and no one else has even a bronze badge, you're clearly pretty active and willing to contribute; I think SO should lean heavily toward giving you (effective) ownership of the tag wiki.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 16:50
  • One person can't approve a tag or wiki edit (unless they're a mod I guess). And I don't necessarily review all that much either... it is easy enough for me to identify spurious edits and fix them.
    – Joe
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 17:12
  • 2
    Without trusted users being able to approve, there's zero chance this would fly - I'd certainly heavily oppose it. You've got to trust people at some point to review things; no other review task requires tag familiarity, for good reason. I've reviewed dozens of tag/wiki edits, almost never in tags i'm familiar with, and I'm almost always able to reasonably adjudicate them. The ones I don't feel comfortable with I skip - same as everyone should.
    – Joe
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 17:13
  • Adding in "top 20 users" or whatever isn't helpful either - in many small tags the top users have a few hundred rep. They can't access review tools.
    – Joe
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 17:18
  • @Joe: That's why tags with no gold badge are exempted.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 17:20
  • 1
    Sure, except again, in my tag I do have a gold badge. There are 12 users with bronze or above badge in sas, 7 of which have some reasonable activity level lately. Other than me, one of them has completed even a single review task in the last three months, and that was on a single day performing a few dozen reviews (and was all of his reviews, ever). In your example, no sas wiki edit would ever be approved.
    – Joe
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 17:29
  • @Joe: I think Ben is trying to write about common tags, not corner cases. Let us fix the majority first, and then we can think about the corner cases. I personally support this, +1, not that it matters much as the decisions are not taken democratically anyway. Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 18:48
  • 2
    @Joe: So let high-rep uses count for 2 of the 3 required accept votes. But don't allow an accept that no user active on that tag has looked at. Use notifications to get the attention of one of those users, if necessary.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 18:56
  • @Joe: The second thing is that I'm not convinced that sas wiki suggested edits never being approved is really a problem. The 20 most involved users in the tag would all have the ability to edit the wiki, no approval required.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 18:58
6

Wiki/tag excerpt reviews serve two major purposes:

  • Making sure the edit is not against policy (mostly, making sure it's not a copy/paste of copyrighted material)
  • Making sure the edit is consistent with the purpose of the tag.

The former can be done by anyone, tag specific knowledge is irrelevant. The latter can be done better by tag readers.

If all tags had large readerships, I think I'd support this wholeheartedly. However, there are many tags with very few readers - newer tags, or just smaller tags. While your suggestion does include Trusted Users, I think that the downside is pretty close to equal to the upside here.

The upside is that you avoid type 2 mistakes - wiki/tag edits that don't actually improve the wiki/tag. However, those are easy to correct, particularly in the larger tags: tag readers will see the tag wiki is not correct and roll back the changes.

However, the downside is much slower approval of wiki/tag edits on smaller tags. This isn't necessarily a huge downside, but given how easy to correct the mistakes the upside is fixing, I'm not convinced this isn't enough to justify not doing it.

1
  • Perhaps there need to be two types of review on wiki and excerpt edits? One for each of your bullets. The first needs reviews with high audit pass rates, and is skipped if the original editor qualifies to review. The second needs reviewers with bronze badge or top-25 user in the tag, and is skipped if the original editor qualifies. Requiring even one review of each type could be far more effective than today's 3 approvals by high-rep users today who may know nothing about the tag usage.
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jun 4, 2014 at 16:48

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .