78

As a person's commitment to the community increases, I think we should make it possible for high-reputation users to fast-track the closure of certain questions. See here for some of my rationale.

Here's what I propose (subject to tweaking). To qualify:

  1. User must have 20K of reputation.
  2. User must have a tag badge in one of the tags on the question.
  3. Question must already have one close vote and a downvote.

If all of these conditions apply, I propose that the 20K user's close vote be binding (the closure takes effect immediately).

My primary motivation
If experts are being driven away by the parade of low-quality questions in their tag communities, I'd like to give them some better tools to address that.

37
  • 5
    Very related: meta.stackexchange.com/a/230882/169611
    – Mysticial
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:22
  • 20
    I would at least want to be able to opt out of it - to give a particular close vote "normal" weight.
    – Jon Skeet
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:23
  • 29
    @JonSkeet: Some moderators requested that in the past, and it was refused. The rationale (more or less): If you don't have enough cajones to swing the mighty hammer, then you shouldn't be casting a non-binding vote either. Either a question deserves to be closed, or it doesn't. In some of my recent discussions here, I assert that we take too much time wringing our hands about whether or not to close, when we should just be swinging the hammer immediately and giving the OP time to improve their question.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:24
  • 2
    Just to be clear, when you say a tag badge, you want it to be any tag badge, meaning just a bronze badge, correct? (I want to call this out as shog called out gold badges, and I want to be clear that your proposal is different.)
    – Servy
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:27
  • 9
    "Either a question deserves to be closed, or it doesn't." I completely disagree with that assertion. That's suggesting there's no room for nuance - that every right-thinking user will agree on every single close vote. I can appreciate the "just do it anyway, it doesn't matter too much if we'd disagree" but I definitely reject the black/white nature of your statement.
    – Jon Skeet
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:28
  • 3
    @Bart: Talk to the people in the PHP chat room, or the WhiteBoard. They run out of close votes on a regular basis.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:32
  • 12
    @Bart Don't forget that a lot of high-rep users who do care have simply given up because they aren't equipped to deal with the problem.
    – Mysticial
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:33
  • 1
    Could very well be @Mysticial. I'm just not entirely convinced by the >20k users == "good knowledge about what is off-topic" match-up. Might be worth a try, could surprise me. But some of the "concerns" raised in recent days had a lot of participants with very little visible moderation activity. Anyway, I'm not necessarily against it.
    – Bart
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:35
  • 8
    I would feel more comfortable if my vote only weighed 2.5 votes rather than was completely binding. Then if another 20+ user agreed with me, their 2.5 vote would satisfy enough votes to close.
    – Kermit
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:37
  • 2
    What happens if the 20K user casts the first close vote (which is insufficient to immediately close the question) and then another sub-20K user votes to close? Will the super close vote be applied at the time of the second vote, or will the 20K user's vote continue to count as a normal 20%? Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:45
  • 1
    I feel like there's too much disagreement at the moment between high-rep users and mods as far as what is and isn't on topic for stackoverflow to give out this kind of power. There are many questions for example that I would prefer to see closed that i know many of the mods wouldn't agree with.
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:53
  • 2
    If we need more people insta-closing, why not elect more moderators? Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:43
  • 2
    @mikeTheLiar Because electing 2-3 moderators in a long while wouldn't compensate the already 2000 20k+ users that would have this priviledge. It wouldn't be such a great advantage as the OP's idea.
    – nKn
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:46
  • 6
    Throwing more moderators at the problem isn't the right solution. Greater community involvement is.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:46
  • 2
    This might be minor, but I would suggest changing the title to "Give high rep users extra weight on close votes". "Super-close" reads as "very near" to me.
    – Jasper
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 1:01

4 Answers 4

68

Though this question specifically discusses high-rep users, I would not feel comfortable having my vote be binding. Instead, I would propose a tiered close vote system since close votes can be cast beginning with 3,000 reputation. This would also remove the tag or downvote requirement.

Reputation   Close vote weight
3,000        1.0
10,000       1.5
20,000       2.5

These are completely made up and for illustrative purposes

The minimum vote "count" could still remain at 5, but a combination of these users could satisfy a close:

1 @ 3,000  (1.0)
1 @ 10,000 (1.5)
1 @ 20,000 (2.5)
           -----
            5.0

Or

2 @ 20,000 (5.0)
           -----
            5.0

Or

5 @ 3,000  (5.0)
           -----
            5.0
20
  • 1
    @MartinSmith Because it was for illustrative purposes. I'm trying to see if we can get data on close votes and user reps behind them.
    – Kermit
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:58
  • 9
    Okay, since the word illustrative means nothing, I've updated the weights.
    – Kermit
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:07
  • I think this is essentially what @RobertHarvey is suggesting anyway, it just explains what would happen behind the scenes (supported by this comment: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/253324/#comment-13003)
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:31
  • @KevinB: Yes, this would allow two 20K users to close, which would have benefited this question.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:32
  • 1
    @KevinB I should add that this moves away from the need to have specific badges or the question having a downvote
    – Kermit
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:32
  • 5
    I actually like this scheme.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:33
  • 2
    I do too. I'm not entire sold on the tag requirement, as some of the tags are very inactive and difficult to get enough upvotes to be able to take advantage of this.
    – Kevin B
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:34
  • @Kermit, how do you see this reflected in the UI? Would we be comfortable with seeing things like close(1.5)? Should we translate into "relative" votes, something like close(1.5->4) for a 20K user who sees a question vtced by a 10K user? Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:46
  • @FrédéricHamidi That's kind of what I had in mind. The value displayed would be the "weight count" as you described: close(3.5)
    – Kermit
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:46
  • 3
    You don't need to display weights in the closing banner at all, just the close voters.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:48
  • 2
    @Robert, yes, the banner can remain unchanged. I was thinking about the vote to close link. What do you think about displaying both values (before, after), so voters are reminded how much their vote will weigh? Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:50
  • 5
    It doesn't matter how much your vote will weigh. Either you think the question should be closed, or you don't. There will always be some degree of community consensus; even with this scheme it still requires two community members to close.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:51
  • 6
    @FrédéricHamidi: Honestly, if this is implemented, I don't want people to opt out of it. The folks who are thinking "I want my vote to count for 1/5 of the total" are splitting hairs.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:56
  • 4
    I'm not sold on removing the tag requirement. The users who are best able to determine about whether or not a question about a particular tag should be closed are the ones who have the most experience with that tag (e.g. gold badge users). Those users will know a lot about what questions have already been asked in that tag, and should be able to have better judgement than another 20k user without a gold badge. I avoid voting on c and c++ questions, because I have little experience with those domains.
    – user456814
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 0:52
  • 4
    I really like this schema. Since nobody's mentioned it I'll add that reopen votes should be equally weighted - it should be as easy (or easier) to reopen a question as it is to close it.
    – roippi
    Commented May 7, 2014 at 19:18
14

I can see this being a significant tool to help some communities keep their little (or big) corner of SE clean.

However, a binding vote is a significant privilege, even with the limitations described.

There are only 17 moderators on SO and their actions are always extremely visible, so it is easy to notice and identify a moderator run amok (not that it would actually happen - just a hypothetical).

However, there are over 2000 (~2300 as of the time of this writing) users with >20K rep that could potentially earn this power. It is much more difficult to keep tabs on a group that large, and much more difficult to get them to agree to a standard set of guidelines on what constitutes an on-topic question. As such, it will be much easier for one of them to abuse the power.

So if this, or a similar power were to be granted, appropriate moderation tools need to be created to:

  1. Enable 10K or 20K users to see a list of questions closed or reopened with a binding vote, so they react accordingly if someone is abusing this power
  2. Enable diamond moderators to revoke this privilege from users who have abused this power. The ban can simply be a timed ban like those given to users who fail too many review audits or have too many rejected suggested edits, or it can be "permanent" ban that is only restored when a moderator manually restores the privilege.
5
  • You raise valid points. I believe special-casing binding votes like you suggest in (1) won't work properly with the weighing concept discussed in another answer, but we could keep relying on reopen votes anyway. I'm afraid (2) will be necessary, as two 20K users may very well be wrong at the same time, abuse or not. Commented May 2, 2014 at 20:00
  • @FrédéricHamidi the purpose of (1) was mostly to ensure that usage of the binding vote was specifically highlighted and easily visible. I'm not proposing a review queue, more than I am just a list in the 10K tools. 2 20K users can easily be wrong, but the more users that see it, the more the law of averages should balance it out. Commented May 2, 2014 at 20:08
  • But with the weighing system, that would basically become a list of recently closed questions, wouldn't it? Commented May 2, 2014 at 20:10
  • @FrédéricHamidi sorry, misread your comment, I thought you werre referencing the binding vote. Yes, you are right, if the vote was just weighted and not binding, then I agree that (1) wouldn't be nearly as useful. Commented May 2, 2014 at 20:12
  • Oddly, I have never seen a close vote abused by 5. I have seen several abused by moderators in the last month. So I'm definitely opposed to giving diamond moderators any more power, and would love to see a "report abuse" button for them. Commented May 19, 2014 at 16:03
5

My primary motivation
If experts are being driven away by the parade of low-quality questions in their tag communities, I'd like to give them some better tools to address that.

Getting the questions closed is not the problem. The fact that so many have to be closed is the problem. This change would not address that.

15
  • 3
    I agree thoroughly. Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:32
  • 7
    @RobertHarvey: Because questions are posted before they are closed, not the other way around. Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:32
  • 4
    Um, this isn't about keeping questions off the front page, it's about moving the bad ones off the front page. People are going to ask bad questions; you can't avoid that unless you have a sentient computer that can screen them first.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:33
  • 1
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit Not if you implement this: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/252443/… :)
    – Mysticial
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:34
  • 1
    As far as sources of bad questions, that's being attacked from at least one direction: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/230857/… . I think those changes to the question ban (both on the early warning side and for the repeat offenders) will be a significant help.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:39
  • 4
    One big thing that this does is it makes it a lot easier for low quality questions to be closed before someone can stick in a low quality answer. When people stop getting answers for their very low quality questions they'll learn to stop posting them. Currently, in many tags, questions get closed, but too many of them have time for an answer to barely slip in first.
    – Servy
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:40
  • 7
    Low quality questions are already closed very quickly: reducing that time by 10s isn't going to make a dent. Besides, although I appreciate the sentiment and I certainly appreciate you searching for solutions, can you imagine a certain high rep user who famously fared poorly in the last mod elections wielding this sort of power? High rep isn't a good indicator for responsible behaviour. Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:44
  • The binding vote is the answer. Until mods say they can't cast their binding vote fast enough, I don't see why there should be a change.
    – James King
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 18:44
  • 1
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit I see a significant percentage of questions that get 1-2 close votes, then several answers, then get closed. Usually it does take a bit more than 10 seconds, and even when it doesn't, sometimes those few seconds is fast enough to beat out the first answers. I do agree though that there are potential concerns of abuse, which is why I'm still on the fence here. I disagree that this couldn't be potentially beneficial, if used well, but I do agree that it could be very harmful, if not used well.
    – Servy
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:01
  • @Servy Well ok that's fair. Still, I can't help but feel like there must be a better solution than trying to give unelected people enough power to nuke questions in as short a time as possible, where by that we mean 10-15 seconds. Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:22
  • Maybe questions shouldn't be answerable until they have ---5 upvotes--- +5 score, and upvoting questions should require 2k rep :p Still prone to idiots being "helpful" and pity upvoting but it would be less abuseable and a very clear signal as to what is and is not welcome here. Y'know, something objective and concrete that we could link to in the FAQ. Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:27
  • 1
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit For the bikeshed questions, they'll get to 5 upvotes really fast; often faster than they can be closed. For any question that's not a bikeshed question, it'll really struggle to get 5 upvotes. You're basically killing straight out all but the most popular concepts. catch 22.
    – Servy
    Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:31
  • @Servy At least in the C++ tag, real questions hit 5 quickly and crap questions so not. The problem here I guess is one of setting a threshold, and that's problematic because on SO we effectively now have separate communities. Heck, maybe they need splitting up. Commented May 2, 2014 at 19:36
  • 1
    If you really want to stop those quick-and-dirty answers to noxious questions, maybe prevent answers for the first minute and 1 minute longer for each close-voter? Commented May 3, 2014 at 20:16
  • @Deduplicator: That's not a bad idea. I'd start with 5 minutes, though. Commented May 3, 2014 at 20:42
4

I don’t think rep is the correct way to drive this.

We know from the close review queue the users that tend to act in a way that is consistent with how other users review the same item.

Using some simple stats it would be possible to work out the set of users that if they were given a “binding close/leave open” vote, then the outcome would not change in 99% of the time. I don’t know how large this set would be. Assuming it is greater than 0, these uses could be given double “power” on their review actions.

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .