101

The site has evolved. Evolved a great deal, and now it's essentially different from one it was at the beginning. I hope, after promoting this post for a very long time, there is not a soul left who wouldn't agree with that.

Stack Overflow has accomplished all the quantity-oriented goals already. Now it's time to navigate towards quality-oriented goals.

Let me draw your attention to this question: How can I prevent SQL injection in PHP? All the 10k+'s can see nearly one hundred low quality posts, deleted by the community effort. Although new answers were coming at quite a constant rate, not a single quality answer appeared for years. So, as one can see, all the might of the gamification were unable to improve this page's content (let alone cosmetic fixes). To me - it's a sign. A message.

To my great relief, authorities finally managed to lock this question, with extremely proper reason:

This question's answer is a collaborative effort: if you see something that can be improved, just edit to improve it! No additional answers can be added here

In a way, it's a model of the entire of Stack Overflow: There are A TON of answers already, there are A TON of willing participants already... resulting in TONS of below-any-acceptable-quality posts. Yet all this litter content is happen to be scattered in millions ordinal questions, and there is no way to keep an eye on all of them, as opposite to one single popular topic.

Following the analogy, Stack Overflow has to be locked in a somewhat similar way. Not entirely, of course, but it certainly should have to be reoriented towards quality of the content.

But that's not enough. It is not enough to limit something. It's essentially to encourage the opposite movement, and here goes this point of gamification. All right, consider it the main feature of the site. Mature adults boast with badges like boy scouts, rep-hunting strategies are officially and shamelessly discussed on the Meta, and so on. All right, let's take it for granted. But it's time to use it for the something really useful.

Though I've got some idea on the certain measures - something like reputation points for the editing posts, something like "gold badge rule" for the reviews, something like removing "Legendary"-like badges, openly aimed at quantity, not quality - I'd like to ask the community; If you agree with the premises and like the goal - please share your thoughts on the practical measures which will encourage quality over quantity, using the same old gamification stuff with badges, reputation and unicoins.

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  • 11
    But we need as much data as possible ....... to bring about the Singularity. How else is it to learn ?
    – dilbert
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 11:47
  • 3
    I agree with your overall intent, but I have one nit to pick with one of your listed ideas. How is the Legendary badge "aimed at quantity, not quality"? It's only been awarded 169 times. If it were a simple matter of quantity, I'd think far more people would have it.
    – Bill the Lizard Mod
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 12:55
  • 1
    @dilbert great point. It seems there should be something like purgatory, an institution that will decide which questions are going to heaven and which are to burn in hell! Commented May 30, 2014 at 12:57
  • 70
    One caution about quality-only purging: Many newcomers don't have quite enough vocabulary to search for "the right thing." It can be helpful to have less-experienced folks asking questions in their own way so that even those without intimate knowledge of a topic or who aren't native speakers of the language can find answers via searching. Essentially, I am suggesting that some of these "low quality" posts leave a trail of breadcrumbs to knowledge that would otherwise be unavailable to beginners.
    – kmort
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:03
  • 2
    that question you linked to with all those deleted answers - just makes my jaw drop.
    – Ian
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:27
  • 19
    Us non 10k members feel left out :(
    – Albzi
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:51
  • 1
    I think the things I mentioned in this answer (from "We need to" onwards) would be a good start. Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:00
  • 29
    @BeatAlex Here's an idea of what it looks like: i.sstatic.net/JW3A3.jpg Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:37
  • 11
    In support of @kmort's comment above, consider the floating point rounding issue. Once understood, it is easily recognized, but its many symptoms look different to those who don't understand it. There is value in accumulating questions that show the range of symptoms, increasing the chance that someone with a problem will find a question that looks the same to them. Commented May 30, 2014 at 15:50
  • 9
    Can you explain why the large number of deleted answers on that question are a problem, rather than a sign that the system is working?
    – jwg
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 16:27
  • 3
    @jwg because deletion of the answers tends to be quite a painful and effort consuming process for those involved in it (except for drop some crap and run answerers). Time and energy spent on garbage collection could be instead "invested" into posting and editing worthy content
    – gnat
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 17:57
  • 5
    @jwg 1. I am the system. I am among the very few people who keeps an eye on this topic, and not every one can see a bad answer. 2. For such a popular topic it works [partially]. But all other questions escape any control. 3. It works only HALF-way: it guards against bad content but it doesn't encourage improvements at all Commented May 30, 2014 at 21:04
  • 1
    Something that I rarely see discussed is not just improving the quality of content, but improving the quality of decision making around maintaining the content quality (how to vote on a close, what edits to approve/reject, whether something is really a duplicate or not, etc.). Is that part of your goal? Do you have ideas about how to do it?
    – jpmc26
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 22:40
  • 1
    @YourCommonSense it seems like you are 'gardening' StackOverflow, but complaining about having to do it. You don't have to do it. Do something else if you want to. Maybe 'the system' will find a different equilibrium?
    – jwg
    Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 7:43
  • 3
    @Duncan: I've mirrored it on mattlunn.me.uk/files/mso_256742_ss.png; datafilehost is blocked at work for me (and likely others).
    – Matt
    Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 8:06

5 Answers 5

93

Rewarding Duplicate Finding

Quality would be improved if more duplicates were found and if more duplicated questions were improved. (By "duplicated question" I'm referring to the original question that all the duplicates point back to).

There is a petition already in existance that is trying to get reputation awards for duplicate finding. This would be a really great thing.

There should also be badges specifically associated with closing as duplicates.

Canonical Questions

What we also need is a way to promote the improvement of duplicated questions. If ten duplicates point towards a duplicated question, that question ought to be improved to the point of becoming the canonical resource for that problem.

I wonder if we need some method of tagging a question as canonical. Perhaps this could be a status awarded via voting or triggered by the number of duplicates linking to that question (e.g. 20+). Perhaps it should be possible to perform an edit and mark a check-box saying "eligible for canonical review". At which point, it could enter a queue where several gold-tag users could approve its canonical status.

Some reputation could be offered to whomever causes the question to reach canonical status. If you close as a duplicate of a canonical question, perhaps the reward could be slightly higher than normal.

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    I think you've got something interesting there, but I won't support this if there's rep involved, especially not while the dup hammer is still "under surveillance". That seriously sends shivers down my spine seeing how robo-reviewing happens with "only" badges as carrots. Having tools to identify (and "canonicalize") frequent dup targets sounds like great idea though.
    – Mat
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:47
  • @Mat I feel like a significant amount of effort would be required to canonicalize a question in a proper fashion. So perhaps there needs to be some kind of incentive to encourage this. What sort of abuse do you fear? Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:53
  • 18
    Rewarding dupe finding has my vote. It takes time to search and find a posted answer that fits a question... often more than it takes to write an answer and claim some rep. And if the question asker couldn't be bothered to do it, why should we do it for them? Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:59
  • 3
    @Duncan: The "abuse" I fear is people closing as dup without spending enough effort trying to find a good target. As Matt says, that's actually quite a bit of work. Too much incentive and people might get trigger-happy. (But too little and we get the current status - there are whole classes of questions that are repeated every other hour with slight variations that are simply easier to answer than to find a good dup; I plead guilty too.) Having known canonical Q&As would reduce the effort needed to find good targets - which should also reduce the need for incentivization.
    – Mat
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:11
  • Note that we now give gold tag badge holders the ability to insta-close duplicates in that tag.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:38
  • 2
    What about offering all people who have participated significantly in a canonical question (specifically improving the question or answer, or closing multiple questions as duplicate) a share of the rep rather than eliminating the rep like we do with CW questions. That should provide some incentive to people to actually improve the duplicate target to make it as good as it possibly can rather than just sniping easy rep for answering the newly posted duplicate question. We would obviously need some controls to prevent abuse though. Commented May 30, 2014 at 15:38
  • I wonder if perhaps a voting for the correct dup would fix it? Commented May 30, 2014 at 15:45
  • 1
    What if "Duplicate" was a specialized form of answer that can be voted on, and the system would interpret votes as how well the duplicate question helped users get to the question that had the answer that ultimately helped them. (Hopefully I'm not restating what others have already recommended.) Commented May 30, 2014 at 16:17
  • 1
    @JeremyCook: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/166844/… ;)
    – Matt
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 16:25
  • 1
    Duplicate answer workflow: (1) User A adds special answer to question known as a duplicate question answer (term?) that includes a link to an existing answer and perhaps a brief description of how they relate. (2) User B finds question and sees the duplicate question answer, clicks the link, and then finds an answer and upvotes it. (3) When the answer is upvoted the system sees that the user got to this question page by clicking a duplicate question link and upvotes the referring duplicate answer question. (Perhaps users should not be able to directly upvote duplicate question answers.) Commented May 30, 2014 at 16:26
  • 2
    I've seen questions wrongly closed as duplicates, so I disagree with rewarding duplicate finding. Deciding whether something is a duplicate can be a very fine line that a lot of people don't seem to pay much attention to. (Robo-reviewers are another example.) If duplicate closing were revised to help that situation, I would be more inclined to agree. I like the direction of this idea, even if the details need smoothing out: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/252896/1394393.
    – jpmc26
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 22:43
  • Look at the site. Does it look to you like people lack motivation for calling out duplicate questions? Whatever SO's problems, a lack of people willing to shout "THIS HAS BEEN ASKED BEFORE, HOW DARE YOU ASK THIS QUESTION AGAIN" is not among them. Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 12:52
  • I love the idea of a canonical question. Reading all the canonical questions in a given tag would be a way of extending your education on the subject matter. Going a step further, the canonical questions could be organized not just by tag but by theme; the dissemination of the SO body of knowledge could go beyond "google question - find answer" to "You want to know more about x; you should read the SO canonical questions".
    – James King
    Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 15:46
  • Regarding canonical questions: I'm not sure if it'd help much. The regex tag wiki even links to a canonical question and yet you continue to see silly questions flowing in and being encouraged with upvotes and multiple answers.
    – devnull
    Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 17:51
  • 1
    @jalf You don't need to say: How dare you ask again, but you (one) can instead vote to close as duplicate instead of upvoting the no-effort question that could have been answered by a web search.
    – devnull
    Commented Jun 1, 2014 at 17:54
49

Funnily enough, I'd argue that post is an example of the system working. It shows quality (the best content) prevailing over the crap posted by others (which has been deleted).

What is an example of quantity and not quality is the state of the questions on my homepage right now. The drivels of unformatted code, posted by people who spent longer writing the question (and that's saying something) than they did trying to understand and solve the problem themselves.


When I go to a website as a new user, and I see a homepage showcasing questions such as these (note; these weren't hand picked. These are literally a selection of the questions from a single homepage view);

... then I'm not going to give a rats ass about spending time to format my own question, or to spend more than 5 seconds trying to solve it myself before I post it. Especially when I still get such helpful answers*.

* Nothing bad meant towards jsalonen


We need to showcase better content. Stack Exchange should be better using the signals it gets from it's users; upvotes, downvotes, close votes, views, time spent on the page, reputation of the user, past history (or lack thereof) of the user. Why is this paragraph of junk the first question on my homepage?

Instead, show me a greater amount of upvoted content. If a question gets downvotes or high views and no votes, remove it from my homepage.

Here's the vote counts from a random homepage sample (via $('.votes .mini-counts').map(function () { return $(this).text(); })):

["0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "1", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "1", "0", "0", "2", "0", "1", "1", "0", "0", "0", "1", "0", "0", "0", "0", "1", "0", "0", "1", "0", "0", "2", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "1", "1", "3", "0", "-1", "0", "331", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "1", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "0", "4", "1", "1", "1", "1", "1", "1", "1", "1", "2", "1", "1", "1", "2", "4", "2", "6", "3"]

That's a mean (removing the 331 vote question) of 0.5, and a median of 0.


I loved the idea Joel proposed in the podcast;

  1. When a question gets upvoted by a user with x reputation (or maybe just upvoted), that upvote buys it y more impressions on the front page than the standard rate. Demonstrably good questions get more eyeballs than questions that haven’t been demonstrated to be good.

  2. Users that are relatively trusted by the system get more impressions on the front page for their questions. If you have a couple hundred reputation and you seem like a trusted user, your question gets more eyeballs

If people see themselves surrounded by better quality posts, they are more likely to make quality posts themselves. Seeing waves of crap posts drags you down, and you begin to cave, go with the flow, and care less about quality yourself.


TL;DR: Stop showing me $%^&.

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  • 1
    Could that question you're railing about be improved by editing it to make it more generic? Seems like that specific case (along with its excellent answer) could be useful to many, if it were more discoverable. Note the change I made to the title.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:30
  • 3
    And FWIW, icanhazcodez questions that are reasonably constrained like that one bother me far less that "how do I fix my broken code" questions. They're certainly far more useful to others.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:37
  • 12
    @RobertHarvey: I'm sure it could, but I was meaning more along the lines of "this question has got -3 votes and 1 close vote, surely there's better questions Stack Overflow can show me?". Editing that question touches another annoyance of mine that I wanted to mention, but I ran out of energy to put it into words (yet here I am). If I edit someones crap to make it better, he gets rewarded for posting such a good question, and I get nothing. The "I get nothing" doesn't bother me, but him receiving upvotes totally grinds my gears.
    – Matt
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:44
  • 4
    You're worried about some new user's handful of reputation? Really? Isn't the whole point of Stack Overflow to collate a collection of useful posts? Reputation is just a side effect; it's not like he can use it to buy something at Nordstrom's.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:47
  • 9
    @RobertHarvey: Reputation is a measure of trust, respect and expertise. Quite frankly, he doesn't deserve any of that. Him getting upvotes from my edits also get him further away from a post ban. I totally get the purpose of Stack Overflow, but reputation is deeply built into the system and shouldn't be overlooked IMO.
    – Matt
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:52
  • Right, but at less than 100 rep, the only privilege we grant him is the ability to post comments everywhere. If your assertion is that people are getting editing privileges (2000 rep) by posting crappy questions (which I highly doubt), then maybe I'd be worried.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:54
  • 2
    @RobertHarvey: ... and what about him avoiding the post ban? I wonder how many more people would be post banned if the system only considered vote counts up until the first edit.
    – Matt
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:56
  • 2
    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you're calling out a question which, in the grand scheme of things, is not all that bad. It's clear, answerable, and constrained in scope, which probably puts it in the top 10 percentile of all questions asked on Stack Overflow nowadays. The other 90 percent is littered with "halp, my code doesn't werk" questions containing insufficient information to troubleshoot.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:57
  • 1
    @RobertHarvey: Ok (avoiding our difference of opinion on that particular question); I still see the "halp, my code does't werk" questions on my homepage. Stack Exchange should take the inevitable downvotes and closeviews, and get the question off my homepage.
    – Matt
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 15:15
  • +1, but why do you want to see a list of good content? Are you going to read random questions about arbitrary programming topics, as long as they are 'good'?
    – jwg
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 16:31
  • @jwg: becuase it's more enjoyable to read than crap content? I'd still like to see the same topics of question, just of a higher quality.
    – Matt
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 16:37
  • 1
    But do you find things to read by going to the front page and choosing from that list? This makes you very different to the vast majority of users, who search for answers to the questions they want to know the answers to, and read only those.
    – jwg
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 16:43
  • 4
    @jwg: Ah, I was writing my answer from the eyes of someone looking for questions to answer, not someone looking for a specific answer.
    – Matt
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 17:07
  • 2
    Presumably, putting such questions in front of you, a high-rep concerned citizen, is also done so that you can take action on crap: voting and editing as necessary. The front page, so far as I know, is different for each user, so you may be seeing a different mix than a new user.
    – jscs
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 18:24
  • 1
    You should be happy to see The Stack Overflow homepage is over-emphasizing bad questions, and a proposed solution
    – jscs
    Commented Jun 7, 2014 at 8:26
18

Replace the "First post" queue with a "Rookie review" queue

At present StackOverflow has an almost empty First Post review queue and a Close votes queue with 10.9k entries. In an environment aimed at promoting high-quality content I would expect the two numbers to be reversed. So the idea I would like to throw-in is to filter on entry, not on exit.

More in detail, I would turn the First post review queue into a peer-reviewed queue for questions asked by new users:

  • not only the first post, but all the questions from a new-user will go into the queue until the user meets some criteria (presumably a minimum reputation)
  • questions in the queue won't be shown in the site until they get a given number of positive reviews
  • to review a question a user should meet some criteria (for instance a bronze badge in one of the tag of the question)
  • a positive review is a gamble: if the question gets upvoted you gain reputation (let's say +1 for each upvote) if it gets downvoted you lose it (let's say -3 for each downvote). Reward must be lower than punishment to prevent reputation gaining by care bears.

Of course a lot of details need to be discussed, but already from this vague sketch I see at least three benefits:

  1. having a latency on entry will discourage Gimme teh codez questions that needs a fast answer
  2. making the review a gamble with the rules above should discourage robo-reviewers (if they accept anything it's very likely that they will lose reputation)
  3. the still to be reviewed questions won't appear in the homepage, so the content shown there should improve

There is also plenty of space for those who actually like gamification. You may think of a "Talent scout" badge for users who gained a certain amount of reputation by reviewing in this queue. A "Great rookie" badge for a reviewed question which gained a lot of upvotes, and so on.

4
  • 8
    I hear you on everything except the gambling side of things (although hiding new posts until they've gone through the queue is a big step. Good luck getting that one implemented). Stack Exchange is not a casino. I'd rather remove the review badges and trust that people review in the queue because they want to better the site, rather than their own stats. Prehaps setting a higher rep threshold will help there, as will decent review audits.
    – Matt
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 17:43
  • Your first paragraph appears to me to ignore how the queues work. Posts that show up in the First Post queue are removed from the queue as soon as one person reviews the post. Whereas it takes multiple people to get a post out of the Close queue. Moreover, if a reviewer in the First Post queue votes to close, this "first post" is going to leave the First Post queue to enter the Close queue. So the Close queue is part of the entry filter and part of the large number there is actually due to first posts that are in the process of being rejected by the community.
    – Louis
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 19:04
  • @Louis Maybe I just used the wrong words (I know how the first post queue work at present). My point is just this: things now are made visible first, and then assessed by the community. We should invert the order for new-users. Commented May 30, 2014 at 21:07
  • 2
    An easier way to enhance the First Posts review queue (as well as the Late Answers one) would be to require more reviews per post, as I suggest here: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/252301/19679 . This would cause items to stay in those queues a little longer, get more eyes on them, and help avoid one-click dismissals of troubling content (which happens all the time). Might not be as grand as what you propose, but this would be something that could be done today, and I think would have a positive impact.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 22:19
0

I would agree that sometimes the gamification encourages some undesirable behaviors. However, in this case I'm not sure the effort you complaining about is effort you should be expending.

Let us define "poor quality answer" as an answer that the community agrees is poor quality via downvotes.

Consider scenario 1: Answerer A comes along and post an answer of poor quality. Reader B comes along the question via Google and has the same question. They have more than enough content to read through in the top answers. There are almost 20 questions with more than 50 upvotes, each containing alot of content, and significant comments debating the validity of each answer. Does Reader B's effort to find answers to his question ever impeded from Answerer A? No.

Consider scenario 2: Where in there is no poor quality answer.
Reader B sees the same 20 something answers.

Is the experience for Reader B any better in scenario 2? No. In both scenarios Reader B's effort to find answers to his question are not impeded from the poor quality Answerer A. The mechanics of the voting system is sufficient to provide readers with a good experience.

There is a saying that most of man's problems are created by man.

"deleted by the community effort"

That's wasteful effort and you shouldn't be flagging answers for deletion because you think the answer is wrong. There are alot of highly voted answers that your comments indicate you disagree with. Does that mean they should be deleted? No.

This one you are one of only 2 people out of over 100 who feel this answer is bad: https://stackoverflow.com/a/6565763/84206

To me it appears your disagreement probably hinges on a misunderstanding of the usage of the term "input" whether that is referring to query parameters or UI. That is besides the point though.

Had you been able to get this answer deleted then the community mechanics wouldn't have had an opportunity to take its course. This is exactly why you shouldn't be deleting answers just because you believe they are a poor answer, because that is subjective and sometimes is the victim of miscommunication. Some of the answers I see deleted are actually valid answers, if not poor. Not only was the effort to delete them wasteful, it was inappropriate. They might be wrong answers, but they are answers. Deletion is reserved for things that aren't answers. Such as comments posted as answers, asking followup questions as an answer, spam, nonsense.

Downvotes are for bad/wrong answers, and as I have shown by the above, it is sufficient to move them "out of the way".

2
  • I think this answer, to a lesser or greater extent, misses the point. The linked question is an example demonstrating an overall user-philosophy of "I will write another answer, NOT improve an existing answer". Voting to delete poor content and voting down incorrect/not-useful answers aren't the same thing.
    – AD7six
    Commented May 31, 2014 at 8:31
  • @AD7six "The linked question is an example demonstrating an overall user-philosophy" I understand that, but my point is that the gripes about this problem from OP regarding "effort" are self-realized problems. It's like trying to paint your crawl space a pretty color because it makes you feel better, even though no one else can see the inside of your crawl space. You know those bad questions are there, and everyone wishes they weren't, but overall the existing mechanics bring forth the good content and push the bad out of the way. That's the point I am making.
    – AaronLS
    Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 21:07
-19

I think one of the obvious changes that can be made is drop the reward for accepted answer to 5 instead of 15, also probably increase a negative impact of a downvote vs an answer for both the answerer and the downvoter to 3 and 2, I think, to discourage blind downvoting of anything that at least looks like it can help and to encourage people to write a little better posts, say with an explanation of how this code works, even if it's repeating of what the code spells. Probably also add a 1 penalty for an upvote [update: to answers only], so that you're not just sharing a "like", but are also giving a bit of your own hard earned rep to encourage the one who gave a good answer to make more. This change, while small, will drastically overhaul all the rep hunting strategies, as the numerous cross-upvoters will likely get uncovered and eliminated, and blind accept-spam won't provide as much rep income as before.

Still, whatever people will do with the rep system, munchkins will accomodate to it and probably get on top again, and any impact here can discourage many people from participating in SO or SE altogether, thus any measures of this kind should first get weighed against the probable community impact.

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  • 4
    Surely the +15 acceptance reward encourages good answers? I don't understand why you want to lower that. Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:41
  • 1
    This would basically drive the Android part of this site into the ground. It's hard enough as it is to motivate people to contribute because your answers will not receive a lot of upvotes or attention and the constant flood of crap always continues. Way too many people get away with low-quality "fastest gun in the West"-answers because no one will punish them for it. If you're going to raise the bar to downvote and upvote these answers you're going to make it so much worse.
    – SvenT23
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:45
  • 1
    @Duncan "Good" and "accepted by asker" are not always one and the same thing. This can be good for a tag with high activity including those who upvote just for the quality, but for say as3, where there's no one except me and a couple more people to upvote, the majority of the rep is gained from acceptance, not from upvotes.
    – Vesper
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:46
  • 9
    Removing rep for upvoting will just make people stop upvoting all together. There's a reason downvotes on questions don't change rep.
    – Joe
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:48
  • @SvenT23 That's why I've said "weighed against possible impact". I'm not a visitor of any tag that has 100k+ questions except SQL, and yes, I too tend to play "fastest gun" from time to time, but this "crapload" behavior is unknown to me so far.
    – Vesper
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:48
  • @Vesper I know you said that, I was just explaining why I would think this would be bad :) also, if you have any experience in java I really recommend spending a day in the Android tag. The new features (especially instant close for gold tag-badge owners) have helped quite a bit, but you won't believe the amount of really, really basic/retarded questions coming through. There are so many people with little to no programming experience who are hell-bent on writing their own app.
    – SvenT23
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 13:58
  • @Joe Good point, I've edited the suggestion to say "answers only".
    – Vesper
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:00
  • @SvenT23 I'm also one of those "hellbent" people, I've even considered Java as a base to write my game, but shifted to AS3 for the better. It's one of the IT tendencies, with visual programming at its dawn even a child can try and get something working and obeying his will, this encourages people to advance but hinders their progress as they move from bright GUI programming to the classic code editor (with helpers, but still), they hit a wall and go yell "HELP ME" without ever reading any manuals. Syntax errors galore, lack of logic galore, etc. I can imagine. Ow.
    – Vesper
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:05
  • 1
    I don't want to be punished more for trying to improve site quality by downvoting answers (although I do think the -2 to -3 for OP is a good change, we could even make it more), and I'd rather not get a whole lot less upvotes for my answers I've put a lot of work into. Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:05
  • 1
    @Vesper It goes as far as just asking how to display some text in a textview ... Which is what the standard "Hello World" application you get when you create a new project with a blank activity already does. I don't care that people make mistakes while trying to learn, everybody does and I've made seriously dumb syntax mistakes myself. But when people just refuse to look up a tutorial or something and instead run to strangers to ask them to write some code examples for them ... that just baffles me.
    – SvenT23
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 14:21
  • 4
    @Duncan Reputation for acceptance doesn't encourage good answers. Upvotes already serve that purpose. Reputation on acceptance encourages people to answer crap questions, with answers that make the asker happy but are no use to anyone else.
    – jwg
    Commented May 30, 2014 at 16:34
  • @jwg Good point. Actually, very good point. I think I get what Vesper is saying now. Commented May 30, 2014 at 19:08
  • @jwg People upvote "answers that make the asker happy but are [of] no use to anyone else" to infinitely already. The only purpose I imagine lowering the reputation reward for acceptance would serve is to discourage people from answering old (often decent) questions because often a large part of the reward is getting the answer accepted, or perhaps giving general answers in the spirit of having it be widely-applicable, but it just ends up being overly vague and not helpful to anyone. Commented May 31, 2014 at 0:35
  • I don't agree @Dukeling. First of all many questions 'how do I do this very specific thing SHOW ME THE CODES' hardly get seen by anyone once they have been answered. Millions of questions like this have a top answer with one upvote + acceptance, all other answers 0. Secondly old questions which are useful to other people, by definition will get at least a small trickle of traffic and upvotes, if an answer is good so will it. On the other hand if a question is old, the user is often inactive or no longer interested in the answer - even good answers often go unaccepted.
    – jwg
    Commented Jun 2, 2014 at 7:37

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