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Over on MSE, I've proposed a series of badges for asking well-received questions on separate days. While implementing them on Stack Overflow, where the primary motivation does not apply, we decided to explain why we are also bringing them here. The last thing we want is to create busy work for people by introducing more questions that ought to be closed and/or deleted. There are two important features intended to limit unwanted questions:

  1. Questions themselves are not the unit of measure, but rather days of asking. Plus, days with negatively-scored, closed, or deleted questions are not counted as good asking days even if you do ask a positively-scored question that day.

  2. In order to be eligible, a user can't have a high ratio of negative, closed, or deleted questions on their record.

The second point strongly resembles a narrow version of citizenship level. If you set up good answers, we want you on our team. Do that for enough days and we'll honor your achievement with a badge. But unlike the old accept rate metric, this version enforces a standard level quietly and automatically. It takes the burden of enforcing community standards off the shoulders of people who just want to answer questions. Your vote has a strong influence on whether a user will be eligible for the badge.

Lately, we've been working on ways to warn and slow down people who repeatedly ask poorly received questions. Meanwhile, people like sharptooth have quietly asked a thousand questions, including this little puzzle: Is C++ allowed to increase the derived class size if there're no new member variables compared to the base class? If we are successful in reducing unwanted questions (and we're not done with that work), we'll need more interesting questions to replace them. Our goal shouldn't just be to squash boring questions, but to increase the odds that our top users will find something interesting to answer when they visit Stack Overflow.

One last minute addition we considered, but aren't planning on doing right away is award multiple gold badges. For most sites, that won't add very many:

138 Stack Overflow
7   Mathematics
4   Jewish Life and Learning
2   TeX - LaTeX
2   Science Fiction
2   MathOverflow
2   Gaming    
1   Travel    
1   Server Fault
1   IT Security
1   English Language and Usage
1   English Language Learners

But because of the potential impact on Stack Overflow, we are going to give the badges some time to soak in. We don't take back badges once they are awarded, as a rule. Even so, we think it would be worthwhile to acknowledge people who have gone above and beyond the already high standard of this gold badge. Should the Socratic badge be awarded multiple times?

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    days with negatively-scored, closed, or deleted questions are... "not counted" - this wording sounds a bit slippery, as if we're simply closing our eyes when a user asks a bad question. Per my reading of your request at MSE, a more appropriate term would be like "deducted"? (total questions - negative questions - closed - deleted)/total questions >= 0.5
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 15:54
  • 2
    How would a question closed as a duplicate factor into this when the question it was closed as a duplicate is newer then the closed question or if the question got answers after the closed question was asked?
    – Joe W
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 15:58
  • @gnat: I've probably run out of ways to word the criteria because I've repeated them so often. That bit's not changed.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 15:59
  • 3
    "not counted as good asking days even if you do ask a positively-scored question that day" - now that sounds good enough! clear and unambiguous, thank you
    – gnat
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 16:01
  • As a minor point, I think your "slow down" link got botched in the Markdown somehow. It's pointing to your example SO question.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 16:04
  • 1
    @Joe W: We count questions closed for any reason as closed both for point #1 and #2. The reason is we really are interested in getting interesting questions, which is another way of saying unique. ;-) The direction of the duplicate close matters since better questions tend to be the ones left open.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 16:04
  • 2
    I see you're still using the phrase "good question" :(
    – ChrisF Mod
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 16:15
  • @ChrisF: I never got a better suggestion. :-/ Fortunately, that's a copy change we could do at any time in the future.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 16:26
  • 10
    It sounds too much like a "Good Question" is a question which earned the "Good Question" badge.
    – wim
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 16:35
  • 2
    How about questions that are Not bad. Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 16:36
  • 1
    I got a notification that I've received the Curious badge on SO, but when I go to my Badges page I don't see it. Is there a delay?
    – Barmar
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 17:00
  • 2
    @CodeMaverick That could be read as "one question that stayed positive for five days" - How about, "Asked questions on 5 separate days that have maintained positive scores
    – Air
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:02
  • 31
    There should be badges for days with no questions asked. Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:21
  • 3
    @AirThomas - True, I think it would be better worded as: "Asked 5 questions on 5 different days that have maintained a score of 1 or more." Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:37
  • 4
    Ugh.. more rewards for people asking questions.. I'd rather see all question rewards go.. Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 11:40

6 Answers 6

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Should the Socratic badge be awarded multiple times?

Yes. Thinking up 100 good questions which haven't been asked before is hard enough, but the second 100 will be even harder and we should definitely acknowledge people who manage it.

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    yes I agree, it isn't easy.
    – Blankman
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:23
  • 16
    The second gold badge would be platinum badge :-)
    – Luc M
    Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 1:54
  • 5
    @LucM a second possible platinum badge could be 365 consecutive days online :-D
    – rekire
    Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 5:41
  • 9
    @rekire Please don't do that. I had a hard enough time regaining my real life after the fanatic badge.
    – AndrewC
    Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 11:47
  • @AndrewC I have curiently 320 consecutive days and before that gap where also more than 100 days. I was some days offline while my honeymoon :D
    – rekire
    Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 11:50
  • 2
    @rekire Priorities, man! Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 21:10
  • 1
    Make a platinum badge instead. Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 9:57
  • @ThorbjørnRavnAndersen Nonono, the point is that after 100 consecutive days you really need to learn to take a break at least occasionally, otherwise you're in danger of getting properly addicted. The fact that after getting this gold badge, you still like to log in a lot, but you don't have to is important for sanity.
    – AndrewC
    Commented Jul 4, 2014 at 11:44
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    I think it would be a profoundly bad idea to award this badge more than once. If all your best users, and all the best incoming users, simply ask 100 great questions, that should more than suffice. blog.stackoverflow.com/2011/06/optimizing-for-pearls-not-sand Commented Aug 1, 2014 at 6:12
  • 1
    @JeffAtwood If that were still the philosophy of the site, maybe, but it's not.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 11, 2014 at 18:27
  • @rekire "platinum badge could be 365 consecutive days" Would be a great badge.
    – convert
    Commented May 25, 2023 at 20:52
  • That would be fun and I would guess I had about 700-900days at most. Nowadays I visit less frequently.
    – rekire
    Commented May 26, 2023 at 9:51
82

I don't think the Socratic badge should be awarded multiple times, simply for consistency with other gold badges like Marshal and Legendary, which would not continue awarding gold badges for having another 500 helpful flags or earning 200 reputation on another 150 days. It just doesn't make sense to have one badge that doesn't follow the norm of the other badges.

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    So... what would you think if we multiply awarded those too?
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 17:57
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    I reluctantly agree with this answer, only for the sake of consistency. If the other badges could be multi-awarded I'd favor this one also being winnable more than once. Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 17:58
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    @JonEricson I'm sure you'd be completing a feature request somewhere on MSE if you did. I don't particularly care if you did it that way, but the lack of consistency across badges is what would bug me, and I'm sure it would just open up the door of complaining. I think you have to decide one way or the other, not mix them up.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 17:58
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    @JonEricson But even going that way, you're also going to open up doors for the gold badges that are already multiple-award. Should users keep getting a Steward badge for every 1,000 reviews, get another Great Answer badge for every 100 additional upvotes?
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:00
  • Also copy-editor and electorate.
    – Double AA
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:07
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    @animuson i think we should make a distinction - great answer is a result of other users actions where steward and socratic are actions based on a single user. Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:09
  • Until this morning, we were going to break consistency. But we decided at the last minute (almost literally) to take our time on making the change. I'll try to find that feature request...
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:09
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    I think gold badges should be multiply awarded where the actions of the receiver of the badge are divisible. So Steward/Marshal/Legendary etc because it makes sense to encourage the receiver to keep doing those things. But not for each 100 additional upvotes on an existing question because the receiver isn't doing anything more. Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:22
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    I do have to say that if the Copy Editor and Marshal badges were to become multiple-award, I think the badge criteria should be made more difficult. Maybe make them 1, 250, 1000 to match the Steward badge class?
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:26
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    Editing posts well is actually a lot more work than reviewing well, so I think it's better to keep the existing thresholds for Copy Editor at least. Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:41
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    @GaneshSittampalam But the badge is not for editing posts well, it's just for editing posts. There are plenty of users that run around just deleting "Thanks" from a post, or removing a tag from a title. Luckily plain retags don't count towards the badge. 500 is a decent goal for a single-time award, but another gold badge for every 500 seems a bit excessive.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 18:44
  • @animuson - fair point. I think the problem I'd have with the higher threshold is that there's only so much effort I'm prepared to go to for a badge (particularly when compared to other badges) and so I'd either have to also start running around doing mostly trivial edits, or give up on it. People vary though so it's hard to say what's the right answer. Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 19:05
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    How is this adding inconsistency? You can only earn Fanatic once, but you can earn multiple Famous Question or Great Question badges. Yes, the question badges are on different questions, but so is the Socratic badge (it applies to a different set of 100 questions). You also have the silver badge Yearling, which rewards the same action multiple times.
    – Troyen
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 22:10
  • 2
    @Troyen That sounds like an argument to allow multiple-awards of all gold badges. You could just as easily say that each Marshal badge is for a different set of 500 flags or each Fanatic badge is for another set of 100 days.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 22:12
  • 5
    Darn it... here goes my 17 Fanatic gold badges...
    – VonC
    Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 5:55
77

I would go for it, but have the number of good question days double for each badge.

  • 100
  • 200
  • 400
  • 800
  • ...

This could be extended to cover Marshal and Legendary pretty easily.

At first glance, the double-gold seems overly easy, but because most of such badges have a roughly "half way to gold" silver badge, the distance between badges is still doubling.

On the other hand, gold badges should be special, and it being twice as far since the silver badge doesn't quite cover it.

If we want each successive gold badge to be 2x as hard as the last, we get:

  • 100
  • 300 (another 200)
  • 700 (another 400)
  • 1500 (another 800)

or, (k * (2^(n+1) - 1)) instead of k * 2^n to reach n+1 copies of a badge "like" Socratic with a base threshold of k events to get the first gold badge.

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    I like this idea best, as it keeps the system open-ended without devaluing the Gold badge too much. (The second variation specifically.) We already allow multiple Gold badges for Publicist which takes much less effort than asking 100 good questions so making Socratic a one-off seems wrong. However I don't like the idea of a Gold badge for every 100 questions as I think it will award too many. This seems like a good compromise that works in the spirit of the existing system: each goal is geometrically farther than the last.
    – Mr.Wizard
    Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 19:59
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    As a slight variation, how about making the extra targets create "bars" or similar on the existing badge rather than a new badge. That way you can tell the difference between 5xSteward for the 5 review queues and 1x(Steward+4 bars) for 31000 reviews in one queue Commented Jul 2, 2014 at 21:16
  • So I'm going to ask good questions 1638400 for a gold badge? I better pass my SE account to the younger generation for posterity; hopefully they are more creative when it comes to asking good questions. Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 17:10
  • @TheWobbuffet Yes, eventually this reduces to "you won't be able to earn another gold badge before you die", unless of course you invent immortality. Consider it an incentive. Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 17:19
  • @Yakk I must earn as much gold badges as possible ;( Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 19:54
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I don't think these should be multiple-award (nor should the others which currently aren't). I agree with animuson's answer that it would make them inconsistent with other badges, but it's also inconsistent with what badges stand for in general.

Badges have always been there to encourage a positive behavior, but this one encourages several negative behaviors which I don't think have been considered:

The lack of recurring badges for the same simplistic behavior has always been a conscious choice, they're easy to game and easy to get. Though this requires 100 days, it's 100 days of 1+ score answers, which isn't that hard with effort - it is grindable though, in a World-of-Warcraft sort of way - not a great thing. Think of other mechanisms in the system we have to encourage positive behavior all around; reputation is the big one. Even reputation has a daily cap, because we don't want it to be an endless grind. The single award of all the "x things" gold badges have a very similar effect:

"You got there, congratulations! It's okay to take a break now, breaks are good."

A second downside I see is the central point of our sites is to leave awesome public artifacts that answer the next 1, 10 or 1 million people with the same question - making the internet a better place. But that's not the only point. We also want the asker to get the answer to their question. But this encourages spacing out your questions, one per day rather than asking them when you have them and getting answers sooner. Encouraging some behaviors is good, but is this something we want to encourage?

I'm not saying the people who are asking great questions day in and day out aren't doing an awesome job - they certainly are. But these people are doing so already without a wall of badges for it, one should be enough (just as Legendary always has been, and that's even harder), and encourage the behavior the way we always have without going overboard into grind territory.

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    "Even reputation has a daily cap, because we don't want it to be an endless grind.": I would argue that this rep cap is the single most important feature of SE sites, which sets it apart of any other Q&A: if there is any "grind" left (meaning if you keep answering when you already have 20 votes, and I know I do), it can be for one reason only: you post an answer to be selected by the OP, meaning an answer so good it actually solves the OP's question: that feature alone incentives to post not just for votes or badges but... to really try and solve the issue at hand. That is very valuable.
    – VonC
    Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 5:51
  • 2
    I actually said as much in meta.stackexchange.com/a/136139/6309
    – VonC
    Commented Jul 3, 2014 at 5:52
7

Should the Socratic badge be awarded multiple times?

Not directly

The golden badges for review, for example, are not awarded for every 1000 reviews.

But, as we have tag badges for answers, applying the same (or similar) criteria for asking questions in a particular tag is the idea that I'd recommend to think about.

There are many experts in particular tag who answer a lot, but don't ask questions. Encouraging them to populate such tags is an interesting idea. People are complaining there are no superpowers in low volume tags, why they won't try to make them high-volume?

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I'm not sure if I have understood correctly what has been recently implemented. I apologize if this is old news but I only found out today.

We've decided to hold off on multiple awards for now. See the announcement on MSO.

The Socratic badge is no longer awarded multiple times. And the reason for this is …?

I don't think the Socratic badge should be awarded multiple times, simply for consistency with other gold badges like Marshal and Legendary, which would not continue awarding gold badges for having another 500 helpful flags or earning 200 reputation on another 150 days. It just doesn't make sense to have one badge that doesn't follow the norm of the other badges.
animuson♦

Well I could understand that if we were talking about the Purple Heart but we're not. Tell Carl Lewis that he shouldn't have won gold medals for the long jump in the 1984, 1988, 1992 and 1996 because he already received one the first time in the 1984 Los Angeles Olympic Games.

Tell Valentina Vezzali she shouldn't have trained and perfected her craft in order to receive the gold medal in individual foil fencing in the 2000, 2004, and 2008 Olympic Games.

Am I mistaken that a positively received question asked on 100 separate days will now only be awarded once. Why? Because thinking up 300 questions is easier? If multiple badges are awarded for Great Questions, Famous Questions, Great Answers, and Populist (Answers), why not for someone who thinks up 100 questions that don't get shat upon?

Do users have an idea as to how challenging it is to come up with consistently good questions? I do. Since May 2015, I am one of five users on EL&U who have earned this gold badge. There are two users on EL&U who have earned this badge twice, one of whom is Yoichi Oishi♦, a user who has been awarded an astounding six times. He has asked a mind boggling 903 questions, and now you're going to turn around and say "That don't impress me much"?

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  • This is not the case, animuson's answer is pretty old, posted back when the community was still discussing this. The feature request is marked "status-complete" by a mod, so I don't think anything's changed. Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 2:15
  • @approxiblue I'm referring to this announcement: We've decided to hold off on multiple awards for now. See the announcement on MSO. You can read it on the first link: (old news).
    – Mari-Lou A
    Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 6:03
  • I'm confused about the fact that Jon made that announcement of the last minute implementation change here on the meta of stack overflow while the feature exists network-wide. Because this forces you to discuss the matter here with examples not (only) related to SO while the topic does deserve the attention of the whole network. Either the question has to be migrated to MSE or your answer should be either a new question on MSE or an answer to a question on MSE that doesn't yet exist.
    – rene
    Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 9:37
  • @rene and I am more perplexed than ever. The OP, Jon Ericson, should update users on the actual situation today. reading the two posts it is not clear if the multi-awarded Socratic badge feature is on hold or not.
    – Mari-Lou A
    Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 10:04
  • I totally agree, so what is wise to do? Flag this question to be migrated to MSE so it doesn't get buried in the daily MSO flood of questions and answers? Otherwise there should be an MSE post to glue the scattered discussion to one piece. Having this on MSE also makes it easier for users from other communities to chime in. Not everyone might feel comfortable to create a Stack Overflow account and start participating on its meta ...
    – rene
    Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 10:21
  • @rene well let's see if Jon Ericson picks up on this. He might well see this post and decide to make some amendment(s). I would wait until Monday before flagging posts and asking to be migrated. Thank you for your interest by the way!
    – Mari-Lou A
    Commented Sep 20, 2015 at 11:22

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