11

I am still not great at asking questions, I am still learning. Every now and then I ask a bad question, it gets one downvote and then the views stop. I call this the "downvote of death", while others still have aptly named the phenomenon "question burial".

My issue with this is when no one comments on why its downvoted I can't learn from it. It might seem obvious to some, it might even be common sense, it could be interpreted from the rules but I feel a downvote without a comment doesn't really help anyone.

It also creates the temptation to delete the question and try again, which I don't really feel is the correct way to polish a question into something that others will find useful once good answers come in

2 Examples of my bad questions:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/27818266/what-are-the-advantages-of-using-a-toolstrip-vs-custom-panel

So in some ways Anthony has helped answer the question here, which perhaps should have been "How do i get round the limitations of Toolstrip control set" and perhaps a separate question "When should you use a toolstrip.

Asking for a promotion during a department move

POSTMORTEM: This one has been slowly updated because thankfully people have commented, its still not quite there yet, but I do strongly feel that there is going to be information there that is helpful to others, particularly as I feel I now have an answer, once it is...crafted correctly

7
  • The first one is in the process of being closed as being open to opinion-based answers.
    – J. Steen
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 14:55
  • Reading the help center for On-Topic would be a good suggestion.
    – Matt
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 14:56
  • 2
    Your first post is primarily opinion based and off-topic, at least going by the title. You can check the help center on what is and is not on topic. If your summary here is a better description, why not use that as the title instead? Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 14:56
  • 1
    The phrasing of the title suggests you are looking for opinions which is not what SO is designed for. An edit might help that question stay
    – Matt
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 14:57
  • @J.Steen, that is good information, now that has been spelled out, I feel I could change the question / delete it Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 14:57
  • 3
    The flyover text for the downvote button is "This question does not show any research effort; it is unclear or not useful". And keep in mind that the purported purpose of SO is to develop an archive/database of useful reference information. Absent a comment to the contrary, you can assume that the downvoter feels your question does not advance that goal.
    – Hot Licks
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 16:48
  • No matter how bad your questions are I find it really unfair to downvote someone asking for help on meta, even if downvotes on meta just mean disagreement rather than lack of research effort.
    – user2629998
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 18:59

5 Answers 5

14

Every now and then I ask a bad question, it gets one downvote and then the views stop. I call this the "downvote of death"

I read this as implying that the single downvote is what caused the views to cease. (Otherwise, I don't really see the point of calling the downvote a "downvote of death.") I really doubt that this is the case. Your first question uses the tag, which has 207 questions as we speak. It is not a popular tag. Now, your other tags are popular but here's the deal: when people see a tag in a technology they do not use, they'll tend to skip the question because they figure they cannot answer it or it does not pertain to their own problem. The downvote may influence future views but it is not the main factor here.

5
  • I feel this answers my question and @sphanley has provided good advice. Now i am faced with another predicament, This question is getting downvoted and so now I want to delete it..but I feel there is useful info here... Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 15:12
  • 6
    @chrispepper1989 Don't worry about the downvotes on Meta. They ain't fun but they don't affect your reputation.
    – Louis
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 15:13
  • ah, I did not know that :) Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 15:20
  • 1
    I also just noticed a huge rep increase, thanks mysterious stackexchange gods :) Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 15:23
  • @chrispepper1989: whenever you reach 200 rep, you get a bonus for all SE sites. See meta.stackexchange.com/questions/147951/association-bonus-100
    – serv-inc
    Commented Nov 16, 2015 at 13:16
25

I distinctly remember that first question. I hesitated to post a comment, certainly would have two years ago, but opted out because that isn't really possible anymore. The threshold for what is considered a constructive comment these days is impossibly high, the threshold for what is considered "rude" impossibly low. There's just no point anymore in helping an SO questioner arrive at a better question.

The primary reason the views stopped is that you have to compete with thousands of SO users with questions. Your question was visible on other user's front page for maybe 5 minutes. If you don't make that first impression well then the chances that you'll get an answer quickly evaporate. So I just voted to close the question, the "condoned" way to communicate. But that's getting to be a pointless effort as well since it never got anywhere near actually getting closed so you could see the message. SO stopped scaling a while ago.

You can get it reactivated by using the downvote constructively and take it as a signal that the question needs work. Editing it pushes it back on the front page. You didn't do that, probably because you didn't know how. It is the kind of skill you can only acquire these days by looking at other questions, particularly the kind that were received well. Which probably would also have helped you to never ask the question in the first place :)

7
  • 1
    a very interesting answer, and I appreciate you mentioning your reasons for not commenting. I think it highlights some things that perhaps haven't changed for the better? perhaps there should be an extra button for new questions, inspired by sphanley "Wheres the question mark?" :) Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 15:29
  • Or perhaps some default comments that can be chosen during a downvote? making it quick to add obvious remarks, and those "pre-sets" could be marked in some way to show the voter is not being brash or rude? because I know there is a downvote reason when you however over, it seems strange this is not communicated to the asker.. Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 15:30
  • Well, I did communicate with the user. Through the only "approved" way, by selecting an appropriate close reason. That he could never see it is a scaling problem beyond my control. Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 15:33
  • indeed, I was not assigning blame, I was just highlighting that its strange that information isn't communicated by SO Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 15:38
  • 1
    Do we have a clearly written feature request for showing close votes and flags to the asker in time for them to fix their question?
    – Ben Voigt
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 15:38
  • 1
    @BenVoigt I recall seeing a feature request for it but I can't find it right now. One concern raised against such feature is that if a post gets an errant close vote, it would make the OP worry about nothing (especially if the OP is not used to the workings of SO). The counter proposal was to raise the number of votes needed for a notification about close votes to 2 or 3 votes. It was still not unproblematic but I don't remember that the issues where.
    – Louis
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 16:35
  • 1
    Well at the moment, when I get a downvote, I worry. and its frustrating because I know I need to improve the question, but sometimes I don't know how and often I want to delete straight away to avoid further down votes Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:18
10

My issue with this is when no one comments on why its downvoted I can't learn from it. It might seem obvious to some, it might even be common sense, it could be interpreted from the rules but I feel a downvote without a comment doesn't really help anyone.

We're not allowed any more to explain why you got a downvote. Apparently we should be frightened that you're going to make "payback" on us. So instead you'll have to make do with a silent "downvote of death". Sorry.

The best we can do is to make a denigrating comment about your question without revealing that we downvoted you. Hmm. Quite tricky to phrase a comment in way that doesn't say "this is the reason I downvoted; I am talking relative to downvotes because I want to help you improve" without it sounding like we're just complaining for the sake of it.

It also creates the temptation to delete the question and try again, which I don't really feel is the correct way to polish a question into something that others will find useful once good answers come in

It's certainly not, though it is the quickest way to an automated question ban.


Anyway, the problem with both of those posts is that they are conversational, chatty, forum topic posts, rather than concise and precise Q&A repository entries. Remember, this is not a discussion board! There are plenty of other places for that (e.g. chatrooms).

14
  • 15
    You're not supposed to tell someone that you downvoted them. You're in no way discouraged from explaining what problems the post has; you should simply omit the statement that you downvoted the post because of those problems (even if it's true).
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:41
  • 15
    @Servy: ...which is totally absurd. "Your post is bad because X, Y, Z" "Stop complaining, troll. Just downvote and move on if you don't like my post." vs "-1: X, Y, Z" "Oh, okay. Good point. I'll fix it and then you can remove your downvote." "Great." Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:42
  • 9
    You're more than welcome to think that it's absurd that SE discourages people from stating that they downvoted a post, and to express that opinion in meta posts. You're not welcome to claim that SE is discouraging/prohibiting people from explaining why they downvoted a post, because that subtle difference radically changes the meaning, and makes it a very incorrect statement.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:45
  • 8
    @Servy: Yes, I am, because a policy that says "do not explain why you downvoted a post at the same time as indicating that you downvoted a post" is precisely the same as a policy that says "do not explain why you downvoted a post". What we are being encouraged to do is to "explain why you do not think a post is useful", with any connection whatsoever to downvotes being strongly discouraged and even programmatically blocked. So your previous comment seems to make some strange claims!! :) tl;dr I'm not the one radically changing the meaning; you are Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:46
  • 7
    Yes, I am, because a policy that says "do not explain why you downvoted a post at the same time as indicating that you downvoted a post" is precisely the same as a policy that says "do not explain why you downvoted a post". No, it's not. It's radically different. Being told to omit the fact that you downvoted is not even remotely close to meaning the same thing as being prohibited from explaining why you downvoted a post. You're completely mis-representing content you're claiming to summarize just because you disagree with it.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:48
  • 6
    @Servy: I fail to see how writing why a post is bad whilst not mentioning downvotes even once, can possibly count as "explaining why you downvoted a post". Such an explanation begins "I downvoted your post because". It's just basic English comprehension. Again, you are the one accusing me of misrepresenting things and I really wish you'd stop coming at me the personal way you are doing. Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:50
  • 4
    How does it not? If that is the reason why you downvoted the post, and you're explaining it, then you're explaining why you downvoted a post.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:51
  • 2
    @Servy: Are you honestly serious? Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:51
  • 5
    I'm accusing you of misrepresenting things because you're misrepresenting things, in what I can only assume is a very intentional attempt to make readers think that the policy is stating something radically different than what it is so that they will oppose it. I mean you even specifically said that this policy forces people to downvote without commenting, which is nowhere even close to being true. It is so far from being true that I can only assume that it is an intentional mis-representation of the linked content.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:52
  • 1
    Are you honestly serious?
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:52
  • 6
    @Servy: Now you're just being rude, accusing me of intentionally misrepresenting words, when the truth is only that you and I disagree on them. Maybe it's because you can't comprehend the possibility that you're wrong, or that someone may not think your viewpoint has merit, therefore any disagreement must be trolling, right? Why can't you have a debate with some measure of professionalism and emotional detachment? Why do you feel the need to take this malicious, accusatory tone? It's really quite horrible. Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:53
  • 3
    I was looking forward to resolving this topic with you but I can see now that that is growing unlikely. Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:55
  • 4
    I don't even disagree with you. I don't think that people should be prohibited from stating that they downvote a post at all. I have a problem with your radical misinterpretation of the post despite the fact that I agree with you completely that it shouldn't be in place.
    – Servy
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:55
  • 3
    And when I said you disagree with me, logically, I was referring not to the thing you agree with me about, but to the thing you disagree with me about... Again, doing the misrepresenting yourself. Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 17:56
9

Your second question to which you linked isn't a Stack Overflow question so discussion of it isn't really on-topic here. But as for the first - it's better structured than many low quality posts, but what it's lacking in, to my eye, is a strong and clear question. The only place you truly ask a question is in the title - there's not even a single question mark in the body of the post. You're much more likely to get a good answer if you figure out what the core of your question is and clearly state that question in a direct way. As it stands, your question is broad, potentially opinion based and arguably not on-topic for Stack Overflow in its present form.

4
  • Would be a good idea to mention that Workplace is a better fit for that question.
    – Matt
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 14:58
  • I'm unfamiliar with what is/isn't on topic for Workplace, so I'm not going to make that assertion - but your comment is noted.
    – Sam Hanley
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 14:58
  • its funny because "strong and clear question" is the common sense point, but sometimes just being told its not strong and clear is enough I like the point about "?" Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 15:10
  • 1
    @chrispepper1989 many questions get downvoted because they dont have a clear question. This is something important to take into account in many other contexts as well, even when sending mails. If you want to transmit an idea, make sure that idea is clear. In SO, you want to ask something, make sure that even someone that has no idea what the technology you are using is could at least say "he is asking XXX", even if he doesn't understand what he is saying. Doing that helps finding duplicate questions also.
    – Dzyann
    Commented Jan 16, 2015 at 16:29
4

While it's virtually impossible to avoid downvotes, you can definitely learn to avoid what you call "downvote of death".

The main thing here is that you need to ask a clear and relevant question that has not been already asked and complies with the rules.

Though a specific culture can differ between tag families the human factor stays the same: most of us do not want to spend the time to decipher the question itself or to answer without any idea what exactly a poster has a problem with.

When someone insist on posting some code and/or results of some research this is not just to ensure that we indeed help someone to learn but also to ascertain a technical level that the answer should be geared towards.

Once again: state clearly what you already know and what your question / problem is.

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .