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Sometimes people add some nonsense in their questions to bypass quality check that does not allow that post contains mostly images.

Question cannot be posted and will trigger following error:

Your post is mostly images. Add additional details to explain the problem and expected results.

Often such posts will be either flagged as R/A or some other flag and moderators can organically find such posts, too.

But, if we attempt to improve the post, we will get the same error as the OP. This is rather unfortunate situation, as posts cannot be quickly improved and the content that does not belong to the question cannot be easily removed.

Please allow moderators (if not all users with edit privilege) to edit such posts without going through quality filter.

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    Not saying I'm against the proposal, but wouldn't this basically disable the filter? The asker can just add random text, mod removes it and the asker circumvented the filter? I personally would prefer that we close such questions and tell the author to improve it with meaningful text.
    – BDL
    Commented Aug 7 at 7:12
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    @BDL the asker already bypassed the filter by posting random text, forcing moderators / editors to succeed that check when editing it just makes cleanup harder. Also users with the edit privilege are already able to bypass other similar filters like the question length filter. Commented Aug 7 at 7:26
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    @BDL New users hardly even know anything about the site, let alone that moderators would be able to edit their post and remove the garbage. Besides, they already defeated the purpose of the quality filter and posted something that was not sufficiently good. Moderators should be able to deal with such content and help users to get started on the site, not punish them because they got frustrated in the process.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 7 at 7:34
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    Might be a neat new tier to unlock. 3k rep, trusted editor. Edit without chains.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 7 at 8:18
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    That restriction is there to prevent bad questions being posted. If we bypass it, then won't we just be left with bad questions? There may be a very small handful of cases where a short post is useful, but not enough to make a change to the site.
    – DavidG
    Commented Aug 7 at 9:27
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    @DavidG this is about editing... you can only edit something which has already been posted.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 7 at 10:23
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    @Gimby I know, but it has only been passed through because OP included enough fluff to get past that filter. It's almost certainly a bad question which should be downvoted, closed, and/or deleted.
    – DavidG
    Commented Aug 7 at 10:29
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    Does removing the nonsense really improve such posts enough? It seems the goal should be to have a proper question; getting rid of the nonsense is required but not sufficient for that. Usually, the advice is not to polish a turd… Commented Aug 7 at 10:39
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    @MisterMiyagi it's offensive to the eyes sdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasdasda
    – VLAZ
    Commented Aug 7 at 10:41
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    @DavidG We are giving people chance here to improve their posts. If the post contains nonsense which cannot be edited out unless OP improves, we are adding unnecessary hurdle for certain types of posts that might not be any worse that some other bad question that just accidentally has enough text to pass the quality filter.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 7 at 11:15
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    I also had a situation where short post was about IDE issue with screenshot which would be perfectly answerable in that state, where I spent almost 15 minutes battling with the quality filter trying to add enough meaningful description. Of course, OP could more easily add additional text around the problem than me, but once something is posted we should be able to improve it regardless of filters.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 7 at 11:23
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    @Gimby Rather than that, I'd prefer to see a new class of tag-specific moderator, and get a bunch of them onboarded (say, a few hundred in total, to cover major tags). The problem is hammering out the rights and responsibilities. Commented Aug 7 at 12:23
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    The fluffy questions should be deleted. We are the welcoming community, but not to those, who are not welcoming to the readers and put garbage in their posts.
    – Sinatr
    Commented Aug 7 at 12:55
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    I think the pushback here is maybe a disagreement on the "appropriate action". Many suggest garbage posts should be deleted over "remove the nonsense and polish what remains to a better quality". If the information just isn't there then please don't make it up just to keep something that might be of value. Delete it and let the next person with the same question come along and create a better post. Perhaps you have a concrete example of something you feel is salvageable that justifies allowing for the filter override?
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Aug 8 at 5:54
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    @DalijaPrasnikar How often is there actually a viable question behind the filter-filler? I’ve rarely come across questions that circumvented the comment filter and were remotely salvageable. This entire discussion may be due to different perceptions, especially across tags. If you have some good examples or numbers, this would be easier to get behind than some hypothetical content filter underdog that people cannot relate to. Commented Aug 8 at 7:24

4 Answers 4

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Moderators must be able to moderate. That includes editing posts when necessary, regardless of any restrictions applying to regular users. After all, special privileges are exactly what sets moderators apart from regular users with reputation based privileges.

What exactly are cases when moderators should use that power is a separate issue. Just because one case is or isn’t suitable for such a use of privilege does not change that moderators should have the privilege.

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    Bypassing standards and rules, creating post which don't pass the minimum quality check and couldn't be posted by a normal user.. hmm.. sure? Moderators don't make mistakes? The resulting post would be clean from garbage and.. good? Are you sure? Moderator removing fluff still need to provide a good post for us, therefore being expert in topic and writing good description in words for us to be able to answer. Or maybe he shouldn't touch such posts? Let them be handled by experts maybe?
    – Sinatr
    Commented Aug 9 at 7:48
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    @Sinatr Yes, these are all valid considerations for when exactly such a privilege should be used. But that editing some content (harmful, confidential, …) out of posts is part of moderators responsibility should be well known. Moderators already have greater power, so it’s not like this change would all of a sudden open a floodgate for mistakes. People err, yes. Commented Aug 9 at 8:21
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    For the record, I am not personally convinced by the remove-fluff-circumventing-the-quality-filter reasoning. One can find ample comments from me here on this Q&A to this regard. That specific motivation shouldn’t be a roadblock for mods to do their volunteer job, though, which does include editing. Commented Aug 9 at 8:26
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    Seems like there was a deletion spree so I removed the last remaining comment of that thread... again, I disagree with granting an exception for mods as we have not yet seen a single example where it is required and preferable over other solutions (e.g. deletion or simply leaving the post alone to be roomba'd or edited by OP). As you say above you're not convinced by that reasoning yourself, and from my POV exceptions should only be granted when the community agrees that there's a good enough reason for it.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 9 at 10:47
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    @l4mpi I doubt there are many examples that can be shown, since the situation people talk about isn’t stable right now - posts that would need editing cannot be, so deletion is the only option if content has to go. That said, there are various reports of beneficial editing becoming impossible because the quality filters were changed, see for example meta.stackoverflow.com/q/422593/5349916. Considering that such posts would be excluded from any edits, such as fixing links or burning tags, it seems useful that someone can edit them if need be. Commented Aug 9 at 11:09
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    @MisterMiyagi I detest minor edits to bad posts, so looking at the linked question I'm actually happy that it stops people from editing unless they fix all glaring issues (and also the post under discussion doesn't exist anymore so it was probably bad enough to be deleted and should never have been edited anyways). But even if you had a better example where the filter is unambiguously wrong, I would aim to improve the filter or perhaps remove it entirely if it does more harm than good instead of granting exceptions.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 9 at 11:31
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    This isn't a moderation "issue" though, this is standard curation, which most active users have the ability to do themselves. Moderators are supposed to be exception handlers. If the post cannot be edited into sufficient condition by regular users and Mods alike, then Mods should handle the exception where the appropriate action is likely deletion since the site's quality bar can't be met. This "problem" can already be remedied with current tools, rules, and access. If Dalija prefers preservation over deletion then the onus is on them to to ensure the post is valid after content removal.
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Aug 9 at 15:49
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I'll have to disagree with this one.

What you're describing is a question that should have never been posted due to the filter. The user managed to circumvent the filter by adding nonsense to the question, but this does not change the fact that the question without the nonsense should never have been posted in the first place.

So the correct thing to do here is not allowing Mods to edit a post into a state that would be rejected by the filter. Instead, I propose that you should use your mod powers to delete the post and send a mod message to the user telling them that adding nonsense to their question to get it posted is against the site rules, and pointing them to resources on how to write a decent question.

For cases where you think the filter hit a false positive where the question is actually decent after removing the nonsense, this should be addressed by adapting the filter and not by allowing you to circumvent it.

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    "For cases where you think the filter hit a false positive where the question is actually decent after removing the nonsense, this should be addressed by adapting the filter and not by allowing you to circumvent it." This assume there is a state where the filter won't ever get false positive AND that this state is reachable by small tweaks AND that we can reach it somewhat fast (a few years). This is a really strong assumption, I really prefer to have a built-in way for a human to say "This is ok, no need to filter it" Commented Aug 7 at 12:21
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    How would you adapt the filter? It is about moderators ability to edit the post regardless of what needs to be edited out. I mentioned the particular scenario because as a moderator this is the most common scenario I am encountering. If I merely said that moderators need to be able to edit without the filter, then people would be asking for example.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 7 at 12:22
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    @AloisChristen as I said above - the filter does not need to be perfect, I don't care if it filters some borderline things, and it should usually be trivial for the asker to supply enough useful text to not trip it. I would also say that askers who instead choose to add random nonsense to the post are probably not the kind of users we want on this site.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 7 at 12:34
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    @l4mpi The quality filter right now allows your to literally enter "ajdbgjdgbfjsfg" to satisfy it. Do you think that we can reasonably expect quality filter that will be able to actually understand the problem and see whether what is being written is good enough to be posted. Removing quality filter for some range of users should be simple enough. I even made emphasis on moderators, to avoid discussing about various what-if scenarios, although I would be more than fine if other users could be able to bypass filters based on some other criteria: reputation, number of edits, or something else.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 7 at 13:08
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    @l4mpi I totally agree about user adding random nonsense, but this question is about mods editing posts. If the post is unsalvageable, the correct action is to delete it. If it's salvageable, I don't see how the filter helps by preventing an edit from a mod or a user with enough reputation. Either the filter is good enough to not be a nuisance, or there is a built-in way of bypassing it. But a basic filter preventing you from improving a post is a nuisance. Commented Aug 7 at 13:11
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    Also there has been plenty of issues with quality filters where users couldn't post good questions. We should focus on solving problems rather than brushing everything off with "we don't need such users here". We want users who can contribute positively. We don't know whether someone who had a bad start will be a good or bad contributor in the future.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 7 at 13:11
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    @DalijaPrasnikar I expect that people who abuse the filter will be reprimanded and reoffenders suspended by mods for trying to circumvent the system. If you say the filter is not fit for purpose, then maybe it should be disabled entirely. But anyways, this should be discussed with multiple concrete examples because I seriously doubt this is a big enough problem to call for an exception to the rules, no matter if that exception is for mods only or based on other criteria.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 7 at 13:41
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    You misunderstood. I meant we should focus on solving problems in workflow that allow posts to be improved as system is designed on that premise. Each post can be improved. We keep repeating that here to every single person that comes here and asks why they cannot ask any more questions. So we should be able to do what is necessary to improve post, regardless whether that alone will be enough for reopening the question or not.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 7 at 16:16
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    As an ex-mod I was always more on the "preservative side" so I agree with @DalijaPrasnikar here - if there's the slightest of chances that something's worth saving do what you can and the system shouldn't limit you in doing so - especially if a mod. (In my term it allowed mods to do weird stuff like undeleting answers on a deleted question etc... so while filters and whatnot could be improved and still apply - in some cases they shouldn't :p). Commented Aug 7 at 16:48
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    @l4mpi Literally anything can be improved, that does not automatically mean that each such post should be reopened and not even that they don't deserve to be deleted eventually. The process is designed that it allows improvement (editing, reopen queue, reverting votes when edited) and we should honor that process. That has nothing to do with welcoming trash or forgetting about the quality. When did I ever say something like that?
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 8 at 8:36
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    @DalijaPrasnikar again, I don't agree that "literally anything can be improved" by editing. And if you're arguing based on the process design, well, it's designed to block those Qs in the first place, which was circumvented by the asker. So if you want to "honor the process", then please delete posts which only exist due to abuse of said process! Re forgetting about quality: that's the "optimize for pearls" part, what you're doing here is trying to optimize for sand - or are you arguing that you could save lots of "pearls" this way? If so please provide concrete example Qs to prove that.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 8 at 9:47
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    @DalijaPrasnikar and again, I'm saying you're asking for an exception to the rules and the process to be granted to mods, and those should only be granted in exceptional circumstances when it's clear that it adds enough value to justify the exception - so "how much" is exactly the question here. You did not give any concrete examples except for a few vague statements about "giving users a chance" and similar cheap phrases that feel as misguided as the "#soreadytohelp" hashtag to me.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 8 at 10:06
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    Yeah, you can polish a turd right? One might argue it's an improvement, but it's still, fundamentally, a turd.
    – DavidG
    Commented Aug 8 at 12:45
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    I am more concerned with what can be done than with what "should" happen. What should happen is never going to happen. Yes Tu... "less than ideal" questions will be posted by bypassing the hilariously easy to bypass filters. That should not hinder proven editors. Whether you really want to edit such questions... well that is a bit of a gray area. Some maybe yes, most probably no.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 8 at 14:25
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    The user already had a "chance" to improve the post, when the system told them to add more information. What makes you think they care enough to come back and improve it after removing all the nonsense for them? Commented Aug 9 at 8:18
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I disagree, since fixing those posts encourages problematic behavior.

If OP adds junk to the question to bypass the quality filter, and you then remove the junk, OP is taught that they can always do this when they can't think of any details to add to the question.

Instead we should refuse to answer the question (by downvoting and/or closing it) until OP fixes it.

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    If the question is already closed then OP needs to make an effort to improve the question anyway. But nobody is advocating for answering and leaving such post open.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 7 at 16:24
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    @DalijaPrasnikar Then IMO fixing it for OP doesn't achieve much. They need to fix it anyway, they might as well remove the junk themselves too... Commented Aug 7 at 17:38
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    Yes, they need to fix it anyway, but they will still be in better position to fix it if question is in better shape than they initially posted it. And again, main issue here is that moderators are not able to do the most appropriate action when post is brought to their attention through flag.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 7 at 17:45
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    @DalijaPrasnikar "Yes, they need to fix it anyway, but they will still be in better position to fix it if question is in better shape than they initially posted it." The content filter would still apply to the author even after a mod bypassed the filter, right? So they would still have to do all the work of getting the post past the filter. Removing filler text seems like a negligible effort, then. Commented Aug 8 at 7:28
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    @MisterMiyagi Yes, the quality filter would still be for author. It is about moderators ability to remove what does not belong in the post and our ability to do our work without having to jump though hoops, and then it is up to the OP to follow given guidelines to properly fix the post.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 8 at 8:40
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    Editing isn't always about fixing the post, especially for moderators. In many cases, moderators have to edit to remove something problematic without fixing the rest of the underlying issues. Commented Aug 9 at 21:06
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I'd rather they just fix the buggy implementation of this filter. Users with 2k privileges regularly get blocked by this when they should not. "Mostly" should mean the Image URL markdown should make up 50% or more of the post body, yet the filter is throwing this error and blocking submission of posts where it is less than 25% of the post body, sometimes less than 10%.

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    Small nitpick: I think body percentages of the markdown are not the best metric here, the ratio of images to words would be better no matter how big or small the markdown for each individual image is. Otherwise a longer image URL or adding an alt text (if that's supported?) would make the post more likely to be filtered, which doesn't make sense.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Aug 7 at 14:50
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    @l4mpi I agree, percentages used were just a general approximation for illustrative purposes; I haven't been sitting down to calculate the exact number of characters in image URL markdown vs the rest of the characters in a post each time, just eyeballing it and thinking "this is clearly a vast majority prose or code, why is this one small image URL throwing this error?"
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 7 at 15:03
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    Shouldn't this be a separate FR? I agree with this but not the parent Q. Commented Aug 7 at 17:49
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    @M--SavetheDataDump It may be at home there but it also fits here as an argument against the request.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 7 at 19:10
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    @TylerH I also feel like this would be better as separate request. While this may help in some cases, we may still have situations where quality filter gets in a way. So I feel like those are two separate issues here.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Aug 8 at 7:17
  • Why 2k users should not be prevented from posting? From where your statistic (regularly bocked) comes? Does reaching 2k reputation automatically grants the skill to build sentences 50% shorter or ability to ask a good question with a bunch or screenshots? Is the warning actually stops any user prom posting? Is describing problem in few more words make questions worse?
    – Sinatr
    Commented Aug 9 at 8:04
  • @Sinatr I'm saying users with 2k privileges should not be blocked from making edits that clearly don't match the error given or violate common-sense principles, like having a perfectly good question with all the information needed to be clear, answerable, and on-topic, with a single, short image URL in it. If you're going to block users from making edits, it either needs to be because they don't have the privilege to unilaterally do so, or it needs to be because there's actually a problem with the post.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 9 at 13:32
  • @Sinatr So, tl;dr, yes, the warning is not just a warning; it's an error that prevents users from submitting the post.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 9 at 13:32

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