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Jan 19, 2021 at 14:56 comment added TheMaster SORVR Alpha testing: chat.stackoverflow.com/rooms/227446
Nov 7, 2020 at 6:32 comment added user5349916 @SuperJade It looks like the question was reposted very shortly after "fixing" it. So the thing they were supposed to do was to have patience.
Nov 6, 2020 at 22:16 comment added Super Jade Here's an author whose question was closed, edited, and didn't get reopened. He then reposted the question, and was called out for doing so: it was closed because i didn't add enough info, but did not reopen once I did, what was I suuposed to do? I'm not saying he did the right thing, but neither do I know how to answer "What was I supposed to do?" It was discussed in meta.
Nov 3, 2020 at 17:50 comment added Braiam Some numbers on these two answers meta.stackoverflow.com/a/355396/792066 meta.stackoverflow.com/a/266844/792066. TL;dr: editing raises the possibility of being reopened the most. Of course popularity helps, but I say that's for the wrong reasons.
Oct 31, 2020 at 14:12 history edited Konrad Rudolph CC BY-SA 4.0
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Oct 31, 2020 at 14:10 comment added Konrad Rudolph @KevinB To clarify, the 0% I’m referring to do not include duplicates. Questions incorrectly closed as duplicates frequently get reopened.
Oct 30, 2020 at 22:29 answer added Vaccano timeline score: 7
Oct 30, 2020 at 20:58 comment added Kevin B @zcoop98 the majority of my reopenings were also probably dupe hammer reopenings after my own dupe hammer closures
Oct 30, 2020 at 20:56 comment added zcoop98 @KevinB Just want to chime in to say that it's also possible you've gotten fairly "lucky" with reopenings in the grand scheme of things too. You may very well be exactly right; your experience however, doesn't invalidate Konrad's. It sounds like the problem he describes isn't a niche, unshared one in the community, based on the responses to this post. Both experiences coexist, and neither appears to paint a good, full picture of reopenings.
Oct 30, 2020 at 20:35 comment added Kevin B roughly 57% of the reopen votes i have cast have resulted in posts being reopened. Maybe you're just trying to reopen posts that shouldn't be.
Oct 30, 2020 at 20:23 answer added user10957435 timeline score: 8
Oct 30, 2020 at 15:18 comment added Konrad Rudolph @TylerH To be clear, me never having witnessed a reopening was since the recent introduction of the “follow” feature (and I don’t follow all questions I close, only those that I deem salvageable; I also haven’t used all my downvotes per day in quite a while). Your 0.01% number is once again purely made up, I bet the real number for this is way higher, since this happened to me.
Oct 30, 2020 at 15:16 review Close votes
Oct 30, 2020 at 16:03
Oct 30, 2020 at 15:05 comment added TylerH @KonradRudolph It's not hyperbole to say my experience is different from yours, it's just... reality. You for example have somehow never seen a question you voted to reopen get reopened. Chances of that happening over such a long period of time are way less than .01% I think. Either your sample size is way too small or your criteria for what qualifies for reopening needs some serious re-adjusting. Just glancing at my 1st page of reopen votes cast, only 4 out of 30 are still closed, and that's because 3 are deleted and the 4th was reopened, and then closed again by 3 other users.
Oct 30, 2020 at 14:56 comment added Konrad Rudolph @TylerH But only a tiny fraction of these are edited by the author (~17% on a subset of close reasons are edited, but the vast majority of these edits are not by the author), let alone in a substantial way (creating an automatic threshold may not be trivial but is entirely feasible). That’s the hyperbole.
Oct 30, 2020 at 14:44 comment added TylerH @KonradRudolph Where's the hyperbole? That's the number of close votes I've actually cast. Per day, I could get 40, or even more if some questions are deleted allowing me to re-cast, notifications, not just "one or two" per day. If you want to be notified when a user edits an off-topic post in a pointless way, that's fine. But don't ask for everybody's time to be wasted along with yours.
Oct 30, 2020 at 14:25 comment added Konrad Rudolph @TylerH It’s incredibly unproductive to start a discussion based on a ridiculous hyperbole. Your number is completely baseless. If you max out your close votes per day you would get at most a handful of notifications — maybe one or two per day, maybe more (and this may well turn out to be too much, but there’s no need to make up ridiculous numbers).
Oct 30, 2020 at 13:38 comment added TylerH Also FWIW I felt the question score floor experiment was quite successful (apparently I'm alone in that). If questions stopped showing drops at -2 or -3, I think they'd get a lot fewer pile-on downvotes. Combine that re-implemented feature with a change to questions dropping off the homepage at -2 instead of -4 and I think questions stand a much better chance of being salvaged altogether.
Oct 30, 2020 at 13:28 comment added TylerH Without additional restrictions, "[close voters get notifications ...] whether they are following the question or not." is simply a non-starter. I do not want or need ~46,000 notifications, thank you. The first change the company should make is to stop putting questions in the reopen queue when they're edited by someone other than OP. Then we can see how things start to look. Reopening on Stack Overflow is already 40% easier than yesteryear, ever since the threshold was changed to 3 votes. Considering many times askers reopen vote themselves, you often only need two votes to reopen a Q.
Oct 30, 2020 at 11:04 history edited Konrad Rudolph CC BY-SA 4.0
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Oct 30, 2020 at 10:59 history rollback Konrad Rudolph
Rollback to Revision 9
Oct 30, 2020 at 1:29 history edited Peter Mortensen CC BY-SA 4.0
Active reading [<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentence_clause_structure#Run-on_sentences>].
Oct 30, 2020 at 0:36 comment added Marco Bonelli @KonradRudolph your suggestion is a valid one, in fact probably the only possible one, that's a +1 for me, even though I don't find it much viable.
Oct 30, 2020 at 0:06 answer added Travis J timeline score: -4
Oct 29, 2020 at 23:28 comment added Konrad Rudolph @MarcoBonelli “we just need to acknowledge the fact that X% of people just can't be bothered …” — My question acknowledges that at the very beginning. Can you, in turn, please acknowledge that? We are talking about those users that are bothered, and who are willing to put in the necessary work. Let’s please stop getting side-tracked discussing other users. The question isn’t about them.
Oct 29, 2020 at 22:53 comment added Marco Bonelli "Ideally, the the people who closed the question should be reminded to take a look" - if this is not bad UX I don't know what is. It would just automatically make me stop voting to close (unless it's opt-out). Nonetheless, it's still a solution that creates more work for site curators, which again, supports the point I'm trying to make: cannot solve this unless curators work more.
Oct 29, 2020 at 22:46 comment added Marco Bonelli On top of that, as I already stated, as the total number of questions and users increases, the percentage of closed questions increases too. This is simply because more existing Q/A leads to more duplicates, and even maintaining the same ratio of other close reasons, the overall closure ratio increases. "Reopening happens rarely" - this is definitely true, but I don't think it happens more rarely than it should.
Oct 29, 2020 at 22:43 comment added Marco Bonelli I don't really see any solution that would not increase work of site curators other than making the users aware of the fact that the system works this way, and educating them, which I think we already do. I believe that the current situation will not change unless curators put more work in. We have simply reached a natural equilibrium, and we just need to acknowledge the fact that X% of people just can't be bothered to read and understand the site rules, which can't really get much clearer than what they are now.
Oct 29, 2020 at 22:31 comment added Konrad Rudolph @MarcoBonelli As would I, because we both know that the system is heavily stacked against reopening. But new users don’t know that. Your advice is violating all rules of good UX.
Oct 29, 2020 at 22:24 comment added Marco Bonelli @KonradRudolph I don't necessarily see a problem with that. I would choose close + delete + re-ask in a decent form every day of the week over close + struggle to reopen.
Oct 29, 2020 at 22:20 comment added Konrad Rudolph @Marco I simply don’t understand how you reach that conclusion. First off, those numbers are seriously outdated. See TheMaster’s answer below for up to date numbers. And secondly, 17% closed questions edited isn’t little — given that a third of all questions gets closed, that’s a substantial overall number of questions that may deserve a second chance (not all of them do; not even the majority; but even the remainder of that is still absolutely non-negligible).
Oct 29, 2020 at 19:53 answer added Joel Coehoorn timeline score: -5
Oct 29, 2020 at 18:28 answer added TheMaster timeline score: 9
Oct 29, 2020 at 18:04 answer added StayOnTarget timeline score: 3
Oct 29, 2020 at 16:32 comment added Marco Bonelli Short answer: no we don't. Long: see the percentage of edited after closure questions here. It makes no sense to waste all our energy as curators on all these when askers are not even willing to put a fraction of that into their own questions. The rising number of closed questions that are not reopened is merely a reflection of the fact that the number of users of the website has only increased over time. More users -> more bad content -> saturation -> higher bad/good content ratio.
Oct 28, 2020 at 19:59 comment added yivi @Trilarion, you are right, it’s not a problem. I misspoke. I meant that the reason it happens much less often is simply because it’s much less frequent occurrence (and arguably a less serious problem), nothing more.
Oct 28, 2020 at 19:55 comment added NoDataDumpNoContribution @yivi How is it a problem that one type of event happens more rarely than another. Specialists in closing should also be specialists in reopening. Maybe the SOCVR has some conventions what to do in controversial cases? How are they proceeding if some say yes, please close and others say no, don't do it? It could work, the goal is the same in a way: close things that need to be closed and open things that need to be opened.
Oct 28, 2020 at 19:12 answer added Robert Harvey timeline score: 19
Oct 28, 2020 at 18:05 comment added yivi @Trilarion SOCVR fields reopen requests as well. The problem is that questions needing reopening it's simply a much less frequent occurrence. Having two active rooms with such different and potentially competing viewpoints could be "fun", for certain values of "fun"
Oct 28, 2020 at 17:30 comment added NoDataDumpNoContribution Just an idea, but one could found a SORVR (analogously to the SOCVR), i.e. a couple of dedicated users to efficiently use their reopen votes to quickly reopen questions that deserve it. That would probably have an impact. You would just post the question that you voted to reopen in some chat room and others could look at them. It seems to be the same workaround to the same problem that also is reason for the existence of the SOCVR.
Oct 28, 2020 at 17:22 comment added Konrad Rudolph @Trilarion Nobody needs to be “wrong” if we posit that no meaningful effort is spent re-assessing closed questions fairly. I don’t know whether that’s the true but I strongly suspect that this is the very often the case, and common sense makes this at least plausible, since intentional effort is required to overturn the “status quo” of leaving closed questions closed.
Oct 28, 2020 at 17:20 answer added Makoto timeline score: 27
Oct 28, 2020 at 17:11 comment added NoDataDumpNoContribution At least someone must be wrong, either you or the other users who seem to negatively review the question in the queue. Would the original close voters really decide differently from the other reviewers in the reopen queue? Maybe the timing or frequency of submission to the review queue is a bad choice because the question is typically not yet in shape. In that case it would make more sense that a reopen vote would just trigger an additional round of review. I thought we are doing that already. Maybe I only imagine it but I thought that in timelines I saw multiple reopen review rounds.
Oct 28, 2020 at 17:05 answer added Ian Kemp timeline score: 24
Oct 28, 2020 at 15:32 comment added Konrad Rudolph @Trilarion You’ve missed this part: “Part of the reason may be that questions are only put into this queue once, even when they get edited repeatedly”. You’ve also missed that the reopen rate I’ve observed is 0%. Of course maybe I’m wrong 100% of the time, but you have to admit that this is becoming less likely than the alternative explanation, that the queue is ineffective.
Oct 28, 2020 at 15:17 comment added NoDataDumpNoContribution You just describe that you vote to reopen and the question remains closed. That can have two possible causes, either nobody reviewed it or the reviewers in the queue thought it should remain closed. What is the case in your examples? If it's the case that the other reviewers think that it should be closed, do you simply disagree with them? It's not clear to me what exactly the inadequacies of the reopen queue are in your opinion other that it doesn't reopen.
Oct 28, 2020 at 15:02 comment added Konrad Rudolph @Trilarion I believe my question already addresses the inadequacy of the reopen queue.
Oct 28, 2020 at 14:53 comment added Braiam @toolic I've seen worse than that: locked.
Oct 28, 2020 at 13:57 history edited yivi
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Oct 28, 2020 at 13:47 answer added yivi timeline score: 30
Oct 28, 2020 at 13:35 comment added toolic By default, I don't want a notification. I already routinely use the "Active" tab to see which questions that I am interested in have been updated. If this feature were to be implemented, it should disabled by default, and users should opt-in.
Oct 28, 2020 at 13:27 comment added toolic This is not my experience. I see plenty of closed questions get re-opened, even ones that should not be re-opened.
Oct 28, 2020 at 13:26 comment added NoDataDumpNoContribution I wonder why this is a problem at all. Isn't there a reopen review queue? If it isn't clogged, closed questions should get quite a number of eyes looking at them. On the other hand, most closed questions do not improve even with edits, is my experience. Maybe the close vote review queue should be blocked if the reopen review queue is full for example has more than a couple of hundred entries.
Oct 28, 2020 at 13:23 comment added Adriaan I made several proposals for fixing the way closed questions go into the reopen queue in this answer.
Oct 28, 2020 at 13:22 comment added Adriaan As a side-note, you cannot ping the close voters, unless they cast a binding close vote (gold badge dupe hammer or mod), you'd have to ping them on posts they have interacted with otherwise to be able to do that.
Oct 28, 2020 at 12:28 comment added gnat there you go
Oct 28, 2020 at 12:28 answer added gnat timeline score: 58
Oct 28, 2020 at 12:09 history edited Konrad Rudolph CC BY-SA 4.0
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Oct 28, 2020 at 11:23 comment added Konrad Rudolph @gnat That’s an excellent suggestion, could you make it an answer?
Oct 28, 2020 at 11:19 history became hot meta post
Oct 28, 2020 at 11:18 comment added gnat I for one would be interested to try getting a notification after first reopen vote (from some other user) on a question where I am one of close voters
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:53 comment added deceze Mod @yivi Agreed. But the follow feature has proven quite positive, I feel. (Speaking entirely anecdotally, unfortunately.) I'm not saying that all close votes should lead to a mandatory follow, but it's absolutely worth it to rethink this workflow.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:51 comment added yivi @deceze While I can understand the sentiment, I believe there are way too many more questions that are closed, get edited, and remain unfit for the site (or remain dupes) than the other way around. Getting automated notifications/following on every close-vote would be seriously noisy and not productive. The "follow" feature at least makes the process opt-in, which I think is as it should be.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:43 history reopened Konrad Rudolph
csgillespie
decezeMod
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:42 comment added Konrad Rudolph @Trilarion I can’t say I feel the same: Stack Overflow 10 years ago was a completely different place in almost every regard. The pace of change at Stack Overflow may feel glacial from the perspective of an instant but there is change. In this concrete case, the site handled close votes differently 2.5 years ago, question asking was different 2.5 years ago, and the “follow” function didn’t exist.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:41 comment added deceze Mod A similar sentiment was my motivation for (re-)proposing the follow feature as well. Dispersing the close/reopen power among all users of the site makes little sense. It'd be a lot more helpful to keep the original close-voters in the loop instead of shunting that job off to entirely unrelated randos in the reopen queue.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:37 history edited Konrad Rudolph CC BY-SA 4.0
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Oct 28, 2020 at 10:37 comment added NoDataDumpNoContribution What is so bad about a 2.5 year old content to mark it as ancient? I frequently read 10 year old posts and often they feel spot on.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:37 comment added Konrad Rudolph @Trilarion Our edits crossed. I’ve added a concrete feature request now.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:36 comment added Konrad Rudolph @yivi Actually you have a point. I’ve added a concrete feature request now.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:36 history edited Konrad Rudolph CC BY-SA 4.0
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Oct 28, 2020 at 10:35 history edited NoDataDumpNoContribution
No concrete feature request included in the question.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:28 comment added Konrad Rudolph @yivi By the way, thanks for the link to the data. Unfortunately I think the data is even less useful than my (admittedly) extremely limited data from own experience, which I’ve explained in a reply to deceze (besides which the linked data is obviously ancient and no longer even captures the current close reasons accurately).
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:25 comment added yivi This is also a good read if one wants to propose a change.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:25 comment added Konrad Rudolph @yivi I hear you. If I had a magical solution I would have offered it. I don’t, which is why the feature request is paired with a discussion. I fundamentally don’t think that makes it a worthless or invalid feature request. I am requesting a feature, and finding and developing this feature requires discussion.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:23 comment added Scratte Shog9's Answer to Can we talk about the voting culture here on Meta? has some good suggestions of how to create feature-requests, in case you haven't read it yet.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:19 history edited Konrad Rudolph CC BY-SA 4.0
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Oct 28, 2020 at 10:15 comment added Konrad Rudolph @yivi I don’t propose a concrete feature but the text above does make a suggestion.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:15 review Reopen votes
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:47
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:14 comment added Konrad Rudolph @yivi I simply don’t agree with that, not least because this question (but not the others) is very intentionally tagged feature-request. The other questions will never elicit a reaction from Stack Overflow — they have been addressed in the past, and the response has been inadequate. This needs to be addressed from scratch.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:12 comment added Konrad Rudolph @Scratte Yes, I think it’s a valid point, and I did check that for a handful of questions.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:09 comment added Scratte @KonradRudolph Fair enough. But you can check just to be sure, no? Allow for 14 days to pass to get the result of the reopen queue on the timeline. About the closure of this post. I'm very disappointed with it too. It feels like the issue is just getting swept under the rug.
Oct 28, 2020 at 10:05 comment added yivi You might be interested on the data presented on this answer.
Oct 28, 2020 at 9:54 comment added Konrad Rudolph It’s also incredibly disappointing to have all this comment discussion, yet the question is closed as an alleged “duplicate” of other, ancient discussions that it’s patently not a duplicate of. Related, yes. But not a duplicate.
Oct 28, 2020 at 9:51 history edited Konrad Rudolph CC BY-SA 4.0
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Oct 28, 2020 at 9:49 comment added Konrad Rudolph @Scratte That’s indeed an interesting speculation but, from my experience, that’s not what’s happening.
Oct 28, 2020 at 9:48 comment added Konrad Rudolph @1201ProgramAlarm The hard statistics from all the ones I am involved in is that 0% (zero per cent) get reopened.
Oct 28, 2020 at 9:47 comment added Konrad Rudolph @10Rep Just empirically, it’s obvious that bumping it to the reopen queue is completely ineffectual. I thought my question addressed that (though not in so many words). I’ve added a paragraph now.
Oct 28, 2020 at 9:16 comment added Scratte @10Rep Why should this post address that? The topic of this post is basically: What to do when a closed edited Question doesn't get reopened? It has to be focused, so it can't address everything, including: How does it enter the queue? But alas, it was closed anyway :( ..ironically, since we know closed Question are almost impossible to reopen.
Oct 28, 2020 at 4:34 history duplicates list edited Cody GrayMod duplicates list edited from Getting questions reopened frequently feels impossible to Which edits push closed questions to the reopen review queue?, How often are closed questions re-opened?, Getting questions reopened frequently feels impossible
Oct 28, 2020 at 4:33 history closed toolic
Nick is tired
pppery
Cody GrayMod discussion
Duplicate of Getting questions reopened frequently feels impossible
Oct 28, 2020 at 4:02 comment added 10 Rep @Nick Really? That sucks a lot, And I feel the question should adress that.
Oct 28, 2020 at 3:09 comment added Nick is tired @10Rep No, the first edit by any user (that did not close the question), will push it into the queue, it doesn't matter if it's OP or not. Even half-assed edits from the suggested edit queue will push the question into the reopen queue if approved. Either way, it will only be pushed into the queue via editing a single time. Which is why I would like to see only OPs edits push their questions into the reopen queue, saves them from having crap edits take their one chance at reopening away from them.
Oct 28, 2020 at 2:55 comment added 10 Rep @Scratte But it does, doesn't it? Any edit made by the OP after their question was closed will be pushed into the queue, no? Or am I missing something here?
Oct 28, 2020 at 1:34 comment added Scratte @10Rep If a user votes to reopen, which they have said they did, it gets pushed into the reopen queue, no? :) Also, you can't assume that everyone knows that the first edit to a closed Question pushes it into the queue.
Oct 28, 2020 at 1:32 comment added Scratte I will speculate that if you look at the timeline for those posts, they went into the reopen queue and users just voted to keep them closed :(
Oct 28, 2020 at 1:17 comment added Alexei Levenkov Maybe we should introduce reopen queue? Would be very quick implementation of the FR... I'm not really sure what this FR actually proposes so...
Oct 28, 2020 at 1:00 review Close votes
Oct 28, 2020 at 4:45
Oct 28, 2020 at 0:45 comment added 1201ProgramAlarm Do you have some hard statistics on what percentage of questions that go into the reopen queue age out (and therefore are not reopened) vs the ones that get acted upon (either reopened or voted to stay closed).
Oct 28, 2020 at 0:08 comment added 10 Rep And you can also go post a reopen-pls request in SOCVR, but make sure to read the FAQ.
Oct 27, 2020 at 23:58 history asked Konrad Rudolph CC BY-SA 4.0