-25

Just trying to start a conversation about this blog post http://www.embeddedrelated.com/showarticle/741.php .. which really resonated for me.

I'm not heavily involved with Stack Overflow but I use it a fair bit - occasionally ask or answer questions. And to be honest this doesn't happen to me very often / ever.

That said I see 'closed' questions far too often and just feel really bad for the people who had the question closed.

I understand it needs to happen sometimes but can we make it harder/less frequent?

As someone else "It's as if Google had decided on a primary strategy of deleting content from it's index instead of ranking good content highest."

Can we find a way to just downvote bad questions and have them fade from longer term archive but at the same time let them get answered so as to encourage those just starting out.

To be clear not talking about homework questions or off topic questoins but the kind of questions referred to in the blog post above.

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  • 37
    If everything is on topic then nothing is on topic. SO works because questions can be closed and doesn't try to be the one-stop-shop for everybody. That so many questions lately do not get closed but just ignored should make the poster a lot unhappier. Feb 17, 2015 at 23:06
  • 3
    How do we try to get people to not waste time on poorly asked questions? Or avoid having 1000 copies of "how do I deal with this NPE" (rather than closing them as a dup)? And how do we avoid polluting our own search results with them? How do we incent people to fix up their questions and get answers (other than preventing answers on them)? Downvoted, unanswered questions do get automatically faded from view after awhile (its a Roomba script).
    – user289086
    Feb 17, 2015 at 23:08
  • 2
    ... while 26k users can cast close votes, very few of them actually do (and even fewer do so on a regular basis).
    – user289086
    Feb 17, 2015 at 23:10
  • 13
    We (are supposed to) close questions that are crap. The problem is that Sturgeon's law's dictates that 90% of everything is crap - and SO is no exception to that.
    – Mysticial
    Feb 17, 2015 at 23:11
  • 5
    yet another using suggesting we become Yahoo answers? Questions SHOULD be closed when they are off-topic or not of a quality up to par with this website. Stack became that good at what it does by filtering and closing bad questions. Now that we're that good, we need to stop filtering it? I'm with you it happens too often, but I wouldn't say the system is to blame....
    – Patrice
    Feb 17, 2015 at 23:35
  • 8
    author of said blog post here -- not sure if making it harder to close questions in general is a good idea, but I do agree that it should be harder to close questions in the short term (5mins, 30mins, 6hours, etc.) because it doesn't give the OP a chance to fix if they are not logged onto the site continuously.
    – Jason S
    Feb 17, 2015 at 23:43
  • 4
    But what about the questions where 70% of people would think they are reasonable and 5 people think they are not? Thing is a false negative to 'put on hold' a question is quite costly in terms of the overall culture of Stack Overflow - so should be weighted as way more of a thing to avoid than the false positive of allowing a question through. (more than it is currently, imho)
    – utunga
    Feb 18, 2015 at 0:04
  • 6
    "But what about the questions where 70% of people would think they are reasonable and 5 people think they are not?" - then 5 people can vote to reopen it.
    – hichris123
    Feb 18, 2015 at 0:17
  • 7
    A question being closed is not the final straw - they can be improved and reopened. the problem is that those who compose crappy questions often dont take the time to do so. their loss. At least as many hurt feelings seems to come from taking DVs personally. The DV tooltip is "unclear, not useful etc" not "you have straw for brains and are a waste of skin". Feb 18, 2015 at 0:18
  • 17
    Yawn yawn yawn. Why does all of this need repeating each week? "Happiness" is irrelevant; it is ludicrous to suggest that voting and closure of questions should be architected according to the happiness level of the author. It is the author's responsibility to post a high-quality, on-topic post. That word again: responsibility. Something sorely lacking in many individuals nowadays, it seems; it's always someone else's fault, someone else's job. Feb 18, 2015 at 1:20
  • 1
    @LightnessRacesinOrbit Because its meta.... and people that get stuff closed don't like it (not saying that about the OP, just in general) Feb 18, 2015 at 1:24
  • 3
    I just re-read the title. So, someone signs up, ignores How to Ask or skims it at best, tacks something onto the end of the title to avoid the Duplicate Title check, then asks a 'question' like "I need a code to ... it doesnt work" and then feels bad when it it closed and gloriously downvoted. I think that is how it is supposed to work. Feb 18, 2015 at 1:25
  • 3
    The problem is not with questions that are obviously no good but with ones on the margin - and that the margin is a lot wider than you lot seem to realise.
    – utunga
    Feb 18, 2015 at 4:26
  • 4
    Reading questions by people who can't be bothered to think makes me feel really bad -- can we make asking harder in general?
    – jscs
    Feb 18, 2015 at 19:41
  • 4
    @hichris123, the truth is that the system's sort of imbalanced against re-opening. I'm not saying unfairly so, just that the assumption that a reopen is as likely as a close was, given an equal number on each side isn't really right. A question with a close vote gets shown to a lot of people in the hopes of attracting more of them (if appropriate), but once its closed, its in many ways hidden unless it's edited, so it's a lot less likely it gets an initial re-open vote.
    – Jaydles
    Feb 18, 2015 at 22:48

5 Answers 5

64

I think a focus on "feelings" is the wrong idea. Do people get their feelings hurt when they are turned down at a job interview? When they don't get the promotion they wanted? When they are unable to attend a college or school they applied to, but were not accepted into?

Sometimes, having standards means turning people away. That is not done to "hurt their feelings" in any way at all, but simply because the standards are there for the benefit of the community and the greater Internet. That's why people want to come here in the first place -- because quality and signal is kept high through (as measured by the anything-goes yardstick of the Internet, anyway, which isn't saying much) strict standards.

What should matter is a focus on quality and effort.

To the extent that a question is put "on hold" (it's not called closing any more, and hasn't been for over a year afaik) the goal is to teach people to put in the requisite research effort and ask a question of sufficient quality. That's why the question is put on hold in the first place, so the OP can edit and improve it!

So the only valid criticism here would be

SO doesn't provide enough feedback for people to understand how to improve the research and effort that goes into their 'on hold' questions.

And I'm not sure that's true, as long as people are reading what's put on the screen..

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    You're right the question was phrased wrong. It's not about feelings per se but - how to encourage proper queuing / encourage proper question asking without being such soup nazis about it? Not because 'no soup for you!' doesn't get results. It does! But when I see a 'door in your face' response to a reasonable question it really kinda puts me off. Thing is I guess 'reputation points' doesn't motivate me but I do like helping people.. and if you want me to 'give back' around here maybe a bit more kindly 'visitor information centre' vibe than elitist Harvard club would be the way to go?
    – utunga
    Feb 17, 2015 at 23:59
  • 6
    @utunga if "door in your face" == a post being closed then by definition a number of people do not view it as a "reasonable question " Feb 18, 2015 at 0:20
  • 36
    I'm getting really sick and tired of people accusing this site's biggest contributors of being "elitist", just because they have no intention of slipping standards. It has a strong pejorative connotation that does not fit. Reeks of jealousy, frankly. Don't like SO? Start up your own site, make it "kindly", don't close or delete anything, see how well it goes. (← this comment directed far more at the blog post author than this OP, who seems reasonable.) Feb 18, 2015 at 1:27
  • 6
    Jeff, I don't think you can deal with the issue without focusing on psychology (including but not limited to "feelings"). Every user's interaction is a mix of positive/negative reinforcement of whether to stay active in the community. Reading your answer reminds me of moving to a new town when I was 14; my dad let me visit two Boy Scout troops to decide which would be right for me. I felt welcome at one... until the end of the meeting when, as that troop's custom for newcomers dictated, everyone threw shoes at me. I didn't pick that one. Maybe it would've been a good experience after all.
    – Jason S
    Feb 18, 2015 at 3:02
  • 19
    @jasons some people are only cut out for community college, not Yale or Harvard. Some people never want or need to attend college. So it is OK to find out you are in the wrong place and pick a different place on the Internet that has standards you are comfortable with. Feb 18, 2015 at 3:11
  • 7
    @Trilarion and while all these specific comments on close-votes are being written, who is going to be answering the good questions? Feb 18, 2015 at 15:15
  • 1
    @MartinJames You have time to close vote (read through the question, understand what is wrong with it, determine the close reason) but you have no time to write something down? I don't believe it. Feb 18, 2015 at 15:35
  • 1
    @Trilarion - Often the close reason is immediately obvious. Closed questions tend to either be brief or a code dump and as a result are generally easy to spot. Reproducing in a comment all of the documentation available in meta, the faq, and the help center each time a close vote is cast is a waste of time. The burden is on the asker to form a good question, and if they cannot then it does not make sense to wait for them to magically come up with one when a single comment is placed.
    – Travis J
    Feb 18, 2015 at 16:34
  • 1
    @TravisJ Yes, the close reason is obvious, the way to go for reopening not so much though. If you want to truly help the asker learn how to form good questions you could and maybe should also provide more specific comments. If you don't have the time for this, well, then not. I'm okay with this but I guess it means I should comment even more (and maybe vote less) in order to compensate and on average come out with a sensible action. Feb 18, 2015 at 16:42
  • 3
    @Jeff I understand what you mean by "this place isn't for everyone" but I think the concern the community should have is whether "this place is for anyone who is new". Posting publicly on the internet is not easy for people who don't do it often. In addition there is a certain level of vulnerability to admitting you have a question that you can't find the answer to even with Google's help. This community is already large so maybe it doesn't need more members... but if it does, even community colleges have student orientation.
    – Matt S
    Feb 18, 2015 at 19:33
  • 2
    Honest question: how do you measure "benefit of the community and the greater Internet"? Every now and then, I search for info on topic X, find a perfect question about X on StackOverflow, and then discover that the question has been closed. I needed info on X, so that was not to my benefit. Perhaps measure the amount of traffic to a closed question? Or add an "I want an answer" button that, if clicked enough, re-opens the question? Feb 18, 2015 at 19:50
  • 4
    @matts there are a zillion resources and links presented on the "Ask" page as well as a complete interstitial page that requires an explicit "Yes, I read this" click .. try it yourself as a new user. Feb 18, 2015 at 19:55
  • 4
    I agree with the emphasis on quality here - quality features have become a full-time job for ~3 people here. But, I don't think you can ignore the feelings part. I think most people DO feel hurt when they don't get a job. But we can work on remembering the feelings piece without losing quality - they're different variables. And I think the Harvard/Yale metaphor does feel more elitist than we want to be. If you put in solid effort, and learn a couple of basics, you should feel welcome here. The Ivy league thing implies only the academic elite (or metaphorical equivalent) are welcome.
    – Jaydles
    Feb 18, 2015 at 23:01
  • 4
    @jaydles somehow saying "like the University of Maryland" doesn't have the same ring to it. I doubt anyone outside the US has heard of anything except the top Universities. I think it's a good idea to aim high even if only for dramatic effect; prestige also comes from the idea that not everyone is accepted. On the other end of the spectrum, Stack could try to displace Khan Academy with truly introductory level "how do I use a variable" beginner training stuff, but it would be a massive shift in focus from prosumers. Feb 19, 2015 at 5:52
  • 1
    @matts perhaps there are other places to go, perhaps the very notion of "one size fits all communities" is intrinsically incorrect? I mean, we don't stuff kindergarteners in with college students, nor do we stuff high schoolers in with post graduate students. Feb 21, 2015 at 0:50
46

I'm glad you brought this up; I found that blog post rather interesting, as - for all the hyperbole - it managed to get a few things right that far too many similar critiques get wrong or miss entirely.

In particular, I liked this observation:

Remember, I said that the website serves two purposes. In the short term, people can get programming questions answered. In the long term, Stack Overflow is a searchable repository for these questions and answers, kind of like a Wikipedia for programming, but with a much better user interface.

In my opinion, the Stack Overflow staff and moderators seem to take the attitude that the long-term content of the site is much more important than this short-term purpose. Why do I think this? Because the word “quality” gets tossed around a lot in the site’s blog, or on the Meta site, where there are 129 questions tagged question-quality. And because the custom of Stack Overflow is to close down questions that don’t meet the site’s quality standards, and close them down fast, often within minutes.

It's nice to know that your work is appreciated - for the past 9 months, the median time-to-close has been under 2 hours, which was very much a goal - it's hard to argue that closing even has a purpose if it happens days or months after the fact.

That aside, let's look at some real numbers here on what actually gets closed on Stack Overflow, looking - again - at the past 9 months:

Total questions closed 
---------------------- 
262453                 

Name                                       Closed     Closed->Edited Closed->Reopened Cl->Ed->Re 
------------------------------------------ ---------- -------------- ---------------- ---------- 
duplicate                                       61998      11263           3322             1231 
off-topic - Questions concerning problems           5          0              0                0 
off-topic - Questions asking us to **recom       4347        413             33               25 
off-topic - Questions asking us to recomme          1          0              0                0 
off-topic - Questions asking us to **recom       6932        668             64               49 
off-topic - belongs on another site in the       1863         15             17                1 
off-topic - Questions seeking debugging he      28614       4606            976              886 
off-topic - Questions must **demonstrate a          1          0              0                0 
off-topic - was caused by **a problem that       6854        503             68               28 
off-topic - **it lacks sufficient informat       4661        741            207              178 
off-topic                                         907        133             65               26 
off-topic - Questions on **professional se       3344        175             17                7 
off-topic - Questions about **general comp       9464        475             58               16 
off-topic - Questions asking for code must         46          0              0                0 
off-topic - Questions asking us to **recom      16577       1395            123               91 
off-topic - Other (add a comment explainin       6658        658            115               58 
primarily opinion-based                         12736       1648            189               94 
too broad                                       49391       8501            952              756 
unclear what you're asking                      48054      10879           1436             1313 

(19 row(s) returned)

% of Closed Name                                       Closed->Edited Closed->Reopened Cl->Ed->Re 
----------- ------------------------------------------ -------------- ---------------- ---------- 
 23.6%      duplicate                                   18.2%           5.4%            10.9%     
  0.0%      off-topic - Questions concerning problems    0.0%           0.0%                      
  1.7%      off-topic - Questions asking us to **recom   9.5%           0.8%             6.1%     
  0.0%      off-topic - Questions asking us to recomme   0.0%           0.0%                      
  2.6%      off-topic - Questions asking us to **recom   9.6%           0.9%             7.3%     
  0.7%      off-topic - belongs on another site in the   0.8%           0.9%             6.7%     
 10.9%      off-topic - Questions seeking debugging he  16.1%           3.4%            19.2%     
  0.0%      off-topic - Questions must **demonstrate a   0.0%           0.0%                      
  2.6%      off-topic - was caused by **a problem that   7.3%           1.0%             5.6%     
  1.8%      off-topic - **it lacks sufficient informat  15.9%           4.4%            24.0%     
  0.3%      off-topic                                   14.7%           7.2%            19.5%     
  1.3%      off-topic - Questions on **professional se   5.2%           0.5%             4.0%     
  3.6%      off-topic - Questions about **general comp   5.0%           0.6%             3.4%     
  0.0%      off-topic - Questions asking for code must   0.0%           0.0%                      
  6.3%      off-topic - Questions asking us to **recom   8.4%           0.7%             6.5%     
  2.5%      off-topic - Other (add a comment explainin   9.9%           1.7%             8.8%     
  4.9%      primarily opinion-based                     12.9%           1.5%             5.7%     
 18.8%      too broad                                   17.2%           1.9%             8.9%     
 18.3%      unclear what you're asking                  22.6%           3.0%            12.1%     

262,453 sounds like an awful lot of questions... But consider that during the same time period, a total of 2,205,976 questions were asked on Stack Overflow. So, roughly 12% of questions asked get closed. That's not a particularly high number, particularly when you consider how it breaks down: 23.6% duplicate, 37.1% unclear/broad, 34.3% off-topic - of which 23.3% are really just other variations on "unclear". In almost 90% of cases, we're either pointing you directly to an answer (duplicates) or pointing you to specific guidance for fixing whatever's wrong with your question.

Which leaves only one problem, really: folks using close votes in lieu of down votes, voting to close questions that, for whatever reason, they just don't like. That leads to examples like the JavaScript one your blog author picked out (which was not a great question by any means, but didn't need to be closed as "opinion based") but also takes focus away from askers that could really use that sort of specific guidance (and whose questions should be promptly removed if they can't be bothered to read it).

This is where the work we're doing on Triage comes into play: get lackluster questions out of the way rather than closing them while closing egregiously-bad questions even faster. Initial results are promising - more on that in a separate post.

There's one last problem that we kinda punted on a while back while trying to figure out how close review should work, and that's close vote aging. For long-tail questions - which is to say, most questions - it's entirely possible to slowly collect drive-by close votes over the course of years without ever getting enough attention to trigger them to age away. That's partially by-design, intended to help with moderation in quiet tags where only a few people are able to vote to close; the unintended consequences are pretty ugly though, and should be trivial to avoid - I'll provide more details on MSE in the next week or so.

Back to the blog post: those two goals he mentioned? They're not independent or even conflicting - the short-term rewards create what's valuable for that long-term use. Asking a question here should be something of a trial by fire - if you're not learning anything in the process, then what's the point?

The trick is to not forget about either the future value or the present needs. A lot of the work we've been doing lately has been focused on reminding answerers that their work may be around for the ages, while keeping moderators focused on the present. Stack Overflow has always been a hybrid mutt of sorts - to treat it like it only has one use is to be blind to the advantages this mixture brings.

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  • 3
    [Step 1] grant upvotes at 15 rep, vs downvotes at 125. [Step 2] give more power to upvotes in terms of reputation. [Step 3] Be unhappy that users resort to closevotes, seeing that their downvotes are toothless.
    – user3717023
    Feb 18, 2015 at 1:00
  • could you explain what does 10.9% mean under Cl->Ed->Re column (1231 is ~2% of 61998)?
    – jfs
    Mar 14, 2015 at 17:26
  • % of edited questions that were reopened, @J.F.Sebastian (col#3*100/col#5)
    – Shog9
    Mar 14, 2015 at 19:31
  • Does it mean that the question that are not edited have higher change to be reopened: (3322-1231)/61998 (3.4%) vs. 1231/61998 (1.99%)? btw, thank you very much, it is always nice to see the reasoning with some data behind it.
    – jfs
    Mar 14, 2015 at 19:56
  • No, @Sebastian - that math merely indicates that few questions are edited. It's a... Funnel, I guess is the hip term.
    – Shog9
    Mar 14, 2015 at 20:03
  • "SO.. is a searchable repository for these questions" I believe the site could do a much better job in this respect but nobody cares to have a systematic way to keep the content fresh. Many times the top or accepted answer is far from being the best or true answer.
    – wp78de
    Jun 18, 2018 at 16:11
11

Unquestionably, questions get closed that shouldn't be. Or are edited into shape so they are of high quality. We have a mechanism to deal with this, its called re-opening. An edit or re-open vote will throw it into the (very fast turn-around) re-open queue so other users can decide if they agree. Even the dupehammer, the "easiest" of all closing mechanisms, has a balance in that another dupehammer can undo it.

However, there are far more questions that should be closed, and shouldn't even be alive for as long as they are (read every "What do I need to learn"," <Insert homework question>" and "<Insert code dump>"

So do we need to make it harder to close questions? I think not. Unlike the blog writer, a 1% "miss" rate on closings seems acceptable. Those questions can be, and often are, re-opened.

Finally, you said this:

I'm not heavily involved with Stack Overflow but I use it a fair bit - occasionally ask or answer questions. And to be honest this doesn't happen to me very often / ever.

That is my experience as well, which goes to show that if you really put effort into your post, and into following the rules, the system works. Making users that refuse to do so "feel bad" isn't really a problem in my book. Hopefully they feel bad enough to improve!

7
  • 1
    Thanks for the answer. But I worry that novices who feel bad won't 'improve' theyll go elsewhere.. to reddit for example. which is not serving programmers in general (or SO in the long term) Two really good examples in the blog post of actual questions that shouldnt have been closed and so this definitely happens IMHO (and my anecodtal experience, far too often), Worried that meta may be echo chamber. The great mass of people who would be put off by this type of thing - or who care about our novice programmers - aren't on meta and/or don't have enough rep to 'reopen' questions.
    – utunga
    Feb 17, 2015 at 23:31
  • 2
    @utunga I agree (and wasn't doubting that it happens), at least the first question he listed as "good" didn't look like it should have been closed to me. Do remember that you can always post a comment saying why you feel it shouldn't be closed, and people do listen to it. As for you last point, I "care" about novice programmers, but I also care that they learn to communicate effectively, and become a better programmer (rather than just "giving them the fish"). Not moderating their content just because they are new doesn't really serve that purpose. Letting them know it needs improvement does Feb 17, 2015 at 23:35
  • It sounds to me like you really do care about the people who are novices.. And hey, maybe moderating thousands of dumb questions will, in some cases cause a person to take a more 'elitist' stance. But there is something very 'door in the face' / 'no soup for you!' about just closing a question - why can't we just mark with a more gentle 'this question needs improvement' tag - with a link that explains why (category of why) it needs improvement.. rather than stopping people from even answering the question. We are not training seals we're trying to encourage people to program aren't we?
    – utunga
    Feb 17, 2015 at 23:42
  • 7
    @utunga that is EXACTLY what happens with the "on hold" process. Perhaps if you tried it yourself, you'd have a deeper understanding of how it works? Feb 17, 2015 at 23:48
  • 1
    @utunga here is the relevant blog post from a year and a half ago blog.stackoverflow.com/2013/06/the-war-of-the-closes Feb 17, 2015 at 23:50
  • I just read your blog post and am super glad to see you are on to it. Maybe i'm just out of date... so you are dealing with echos a problem already fixed. I hope so. But to be clear this is not EXACTLY (in all caps) what happens when a question is placed on hold - because when a question is on hold it stops people from answering the question. I guess I had thought it might be nicer vibe if a badly formatted question could be answered (if anyone actually wants to) for now but flagged so as not to ruin the longer term archive.
    – utunga
    Feb 18, 2015 at 0:38
  • 1
    @utunga People should not be VTCing for formatting, unless its so bad that it makes the post non-understandable. Feb 18, 2015 at 1:18
7

I think that you've got the right idea here but it's buried in your question - what we need to focus on is not the idea of making it harder to close questions, but rather the idea of making question closure less frequent -- by reducing the number of questions which warrant closure. This seems to be the focus of many initiatives such as the triage queue, and if anyone has other ideas as to how to steer people into posting better questions I'm sure they'd be welcomed. But reducing the number of questions closed without raising the average question quality is attacking the problem from the wrong end.

2
  • Excellent points all around. This wouldn't be a problem if people asked better questions. Feb 17, 2015 at 23:36
  • Indeed excellent observation. The real question is: What can you do to make people ask better questions? Feb 18, 2015 at 12:13
-3

There are different groups of closed questions:

Duplicates: Can happen to everyone although more often to people who do not (re)search at all. Must be closed. No alternative.

Offtopic: Can happen to everyone although more often to short time users (no experience) and users not familiar with the help center. Must be closed. No alternative.

Too broad or unclear or no running example: That you can learn and you have to learn to give enough information and to create a running example and to narrow down the scope enough to allow for a good answer.

One can close these but I feel they should not be closed too fast (often the closing squad terminates them within the hour) and time should be given to help and learn how to pose good original questions (these are potentially). I would feel a redesign of how SO works on these questions (give them a bit more time, do not close immediately) would be better.

I try to mimick this by commenting and not immediately vote for closing, but the effect is not very strong.

My impression is that some of these questions are closed too early. The asker would learn faster how to ask good questions if the question would not be closed immediately but if instead answers and the ability to ask further questions would be restricted until this question has improved or anything else to this purpose. This would still need to be discussed somewhere else.

8
  • 8
    If a question merits closure, the votes to close should come as soon as possible. I've explained why in this answer. Closing the question immediately does not prevent in any way the OP from improving their question so that it is reopened.
    – Louis
    Feb 18, 2015 at 12:35
  • @Louis I see problems with it. First, close voters do not comment enough. The information given is often not enough to help make the specific question reopenable. More specific information would be required. Second, you need time to edit and improve a question. But the hold on message is very intimidating. Maybe just make it smaller and stress more that in the "too broad, unclear, debug" the goal is actually to improve the questions. Also reopening may not work that well. I see quite a number of questions staying with 1-2 reopen votes. I wonder what's going on there? Feb 18, 2015 at 12:44
  • 5
    "I wonder what's going on there?" Maybe the questions are still not up to the quality they need. I've seen questions reopened when someone added code but did not add the code that was needed to make the question worth reopening. Questions that are edited in this way should remain closed until they are properly fixed.
    – Louis
    Feb 18, 2015 at 12:46
  • @Louis This is possible. But I have also seen the opposite where I thought the question is ok and I always assumed that voters are just to lazy to reopen long closed questions. Feb 18, 2015 at 12:51
  • one fix would be to make 'request to reopen' and/or 'waah it seems unfair that this question got put on hold' something that requires very little rep but lots of people before it actually has an effect.. This would acknowledge the difference between the 'great unwashed' who are asking the questions - and who I feel are under appreciated - vs the 'in crowd' who, sadly, seem in some cases to too happy with the dupe hammer et al. And then make it a penalty on your rep if you close and then it gets reopened.
    – utunga
    Feb 19, 2015 at 0:48
  • 1
    there is an adage 'there is no such thing as a stupid question' - its not actually true - but it captures the sense of welcoming and encouragement (as opposed to too much attention to enforcing 'quality' questions) - that I think would be ideal. Not sure who will read this, mind you, now that it has -20 reputation as a question on Meta. Sorry but this all still feels very echo chamberish around here. And sometimes a bit spiteful and mean. Not the right culture in my humble opinion but hey whatever, man.
    – utunga
    Feb 19, 2015 at 0:51
  • 3
    @utunga but there are tons of stupid questions. The adage is plain wrong in every professional context, which is what SO aims to be; you don't ask on SO why your pc won't boot or where your car is parked. SO is very welcoming and encouraging towards people who can contribute quality content, but I see no reason other than "omg that's elitist" to lower the quality standards. And the day a feature like you propose is introduced, making me lose rep because carebears are under the impression they have to cater to every crap questions, is when I leave SO for good.
    – l4mpi
    Feb 19, 2015 at 10:43
  • 1
    @l4mpi Just as a general comment - I often think it's advantageous to rather a bit more often ignore stupid things than actively fight them. First it takes away your time, second if you overdo it and accuse things of being stupid that actually aren't you are even doing wrong and could be accused of arrogance. So yes, in principle I agree with many things but don't aim to overdo it. And threaten to leave SO - is probably not the fine gentleman way at this time point where nothing really indicates anything but almost sure commitment to closing and downvoting. Feb 19, 2015 at 12:06

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