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How to loop through elements of forms with Javascript? is wrongly closed as a duplicate. It's a question tagged with and has a good vanilla JavaScript answer but is closed as a duplicate of a much less well-written and less highly-viewed question that does not provide a working non-jQuery answer. (There is a non-jQuery answer, but it doesn't do quite what the question asks for - it loops through the form's elements' values, not the elements themselves.) I commented pointing this out and cast a reopen vote.

It's about as clear-cut a case as you can get: a good, well-written question closed wrongly as a duplicate, with the error explicitly explained in the comments. Yet 3 reviewers unanimously agreed to leave it closed.

I expect that, when I post this, the denizens of Meta will go forth and take care of this question. But what frustrates me is that this is an experience that I have over and over again. I usually favorite questions that I vote to reopen so I can go back and check on them (as I did here), and I can't honestly remember a single time that I've succeeded in getting one reopened without resorting to posting on Meta, asking for help in the SOCVR chatroom, or raising a mod flag. The intended process, at least as far as I've witnessed, just doesn't work as it should.

Is this everyone else's experience as well? Does anyone have some stats on how frequently reopen votes are effective, and has anyone tried to figure out in some principled way how frequently they get clearly wrongly rejected in review?

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  • i fail to see how those two questions don't answer the one you referenced. Yes, they have jquery answers. They also have non-jquery answers. If you have a better answer, you're free to provide one,
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 22:05
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    What value do we gain by reopening this question?
    – Kevin B
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 22:09
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    @KevinB 1. Not wasting people's time by sending them away to a page that doesn't have an answer to their question and 2. The ability for new answers to be added, which could be useful if some relevant new property or method gets added to the form API in future.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 22:11
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    Side note: Closed question has way more views than the target questions.
    – user2285236
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 22:12
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    Despite a fairly prominent community opinion to the contrary, closing as a duplicate question doesn't actually mean "you can find your answer over here," nor does not having an answer or having the wrong answer mean that a question cannot be a potential duplicate target. Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 22:14
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    It was in fact a voting ring in that chat room that got it closed. Ironic, isn't it? Such are problems that come with artificially inflating voting power. Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 22:21
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    @RobertHarvey I agree that it's fine to close genuinely duplicate questions as duplicates even if there isn't an answer yet. The problem here is that "How do I do X with jQuery?" simply isn't a duplicate of "How do I do X with JavaScript?" - in general, or in this particular case. The fact that somebody came along and lobbed a wrong non-jQuery answer onto the jQuery question doesn't change that.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 22:43
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    @KevinB "Knowing what you need from doing so and how you intend to use that information may alter the way you would want to loop over it." - I don't think it does. And if it does, then there's nothing stopping people from posting multiple answers with slightly different pros and cons. "Loop over the elements of a form" is already a pretty narrowly-specced task; I don't see any value in fragmenting questions about doing so into a bunch of special-snowflake cases carefully crafted to invalidate some approaches to the general case. As a reader, I just want to see the possibilities and choose.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Apr 27, 2018 at 22:46
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    @LucianoFCastelfranchi: You got one downvote, so you delete it and are done answering questions? I seriously don't understand some people. Nobody reached across the Internet to slap you. It's a downvote. If merely getting a downvote is now considered not being "welcoming", then we may as well remove downvotes entirely. And close the site as a consequence. Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 3:10
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    @LucianoFCastelfranchi: "Down voting every question answered by the people with less points." There are groups of users that downvote bad questions, but they don't downvote questions due to the reputation of the person posting it. There are first time posts that get upvotes; if there was some cabal of people who downvote solely based on the rep of the poster, how would that be possible? Your statement is standard conspiracy theorist nonsense; it doesn't pass the smell test. Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 3:28
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    @LucianoFCastelfranchi - I think you meant to say "the bottom line is I am right, and anything else is just smelly garbage" :-) But seriously, consider the possibility that you are misinterpreting what these people are doing and their real motives. For a start, you do not know how people vote because votes are anonymous. The mods can see actual voting patterns ... but you and I can't.
    – Stephen C
    Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 7:16
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    @Luciano meta doesn't deal super well with hyperbole. If you meant 'a lot of new questions', I suggest saying that. We are programmers and most of us are pedantic as heck. If you say 'all new questions' someone will find a counterexample and dismiss your point.
    – Patrice
    Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 11:39
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    getting questions closed frequently feels impossible to me Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 22:24
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    The dup-target to which this question was originally closed, "Looping through form fields with different names", is, in fact, a duplicate and isn't about jQuery. The additional dup-target, about which you're complaining, was added by a moderator late last year. Looping through DOM nodes is so common that there are hundreds, if not thousands, of duplicates, in one form or another. Could this set of duplicates be organized better, perhaps, but it was reasonable to close this question, because it is a duplicate.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Apr 28, 2018 at 23:08
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    Pretty big problem on SO; people are far far too quick to mark something as a duplicate without either reading both questions properly and/or not being knowledgeable on the subject matter.
    – Brett
    Commented May 2, 2018 at 16:41

2 Answers 2

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Yes, this is precisely my experience and it happens often. It happened many times before I got a gold badge which let me unilaterally re-open wrongly closed duplicates. But it remains a problem with posts closed incorrectly for other reasons.

The only advice I can give is: "Vote to Reopen & Hope" & "If this isn't timely, have someone else ask a duplicate explaining clearly why the other question doesn't help." Shameful, really.

Here's an interesting note about the review queue closers in this instance:

None have even a bronze tag in [javascript]

One is a [pandas] expert, never posting an answer on [javascript]; another (<10k) has posted ~100 answers over 6 years; the third (also <10k) has a higher score for [jquery] than for [javascript].

I'd love to see the stats, but it's almost certainly the case that many people, for whatever reason, avoid the "Skip" button in review queues when they are unsure. Maybe they want badges. Maybe they have a quick glance and decide. Maybe they don't know what they don't know. In any case, the system doesn't work.

One commonly proposed solution (give more voting power to tag badge holders) may have helped here, but the request has been repeatedly declined. Here's a very similar anecdote (scroll down to "A recently closed question"); the solution proposed is the same one that has been repeatedly declined:

Questions can only be closed by relevant users. Don’t let users who have no clue about the tags close the question, even if they have high reputation.

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The narrower context of your question is about questions closed with the wrong dupe target. Your question is about reopening posts being borderline impossible. But what about the recently added feature of gold badgers editing the dupe target list? That would trivially solve the problem of a suboptimal duplicate target: just add a proper one too. If you don't want to get into a dupe hammer fight you don't even need to replace the target; OP should be able to find the optimal solution from two links especially if you leave a helpful comment explaining why the approach in the second dupe target might be appropriate.

My impression is that dupes are unlikely to be reopened to be closed as dupes again, since users are often reluctant to reopen for the sake of closing again. When you rarely find a non-dupe closed post that has been edited into shape, you'll likely find that it's not very hard to gather enough votes to reopen it.

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