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Very often when I come across a question post that has any sort of connection to a coding challenge site such as leetcode, hackerrank, etc., such as being about a problem on that site, or even if the question is about how the site builds/runs code, I will see a comment or multiple comments saying that coding challenges are not a good way to learn, and sometimes also suggesting some other learning strategy.

For example, in How is Leetcode able to compile a C++ program without me writing a 'main()' function?, there are the comments

  • "in theory you would learn c++ from a book rather than jumping into codign competitions and get confused that they dont teach you the basics."
  • "I would seriously suggest forgetting that leetcode even exists."
  • "A good c++ book will be more useful than leetcode."

Frankly (and I'm mentally prepared for this to be an unpopular stance), I don't see how these comments are relevant enough to this particular question to be considered appropriate. I dare even to go as far as to think many of them as indiscriminate(ly posted) and unwarranted. As I hovered over the "No longer needed" flag reason, it struck me to ask what other people think about this.

On one hand, I get where the people who leave these comments are coming from: Good intentions, and wanting to share a bit of personal wisdom. I leave comments like this too sometimes.

On the other hand, when I leave comments like this, often it's to shine more clear light on a weakness of a particular technology that is already on display through the question, and directly related to the problem. For example on a question where the VS Code Code Runner extension fails to quote arguments properly for a specific shell, I will say something like "this is why I suggest people not to use Code Runner for one-off programs. It doesn't quote arguments properly for all common shells", and often follow with "<X dominantly popular language-support extension> already supports doing this (and I believe) with proper shell quoting, so you don't even need Code Runner".

But on questions where I see the type of comment I'm asking about here, I often feel like the comment section of the question post isn't an appropriate space to share that "personal wisdom". (I'm sorry for injecting my opinion into a question asking for peoples' thoughts, but I wouldn't be asking this question if I weren't conflicted like this).

What do you all think? Is there a line? Is it fine and good to leave a "leetcode bad- go read textbooks" comment on any question that mentions leetcode? If there is a line, how is that line defined? Or if you have a personal line, how is your line defined?

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    I asked a question(10k link) on this topic some time ago. You may read the comments their to get a perspective of how people think about those sites. I have also seen some argue that they use those sites to learn algorithms and C/C++ is no more than a tool so they're not interested in spending more efforts in the language itself. These are for your reference. Your question is indeed formulated in a better way than mine. Commented Jun 20 at 4:46
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    The problem I have with the linked question is that it seems that people are voting both up and down indiscriminately, just to prove some point to other users.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 20 at 6:39
  • I really don't understand what sort of discussion or answer you are looking for here. There's a huge grey area that delineates appropriate from inappropriate comments, and the clearly inappropriate comments already have rules and flags. What you are asking for is highly subjective and completely circumstantial it seems. What other advice can one offer more than "use your best judgement"?
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Jun 22 at 0:51
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    @DrewReese "subjective and circumstantial"... I don't know what to say other than- that's literally the point of raising this discussion on meta. to hear how people use their judgement, and see what sort of alignment or lack of alignment there is.
    – starball
    Commented Jun 22 at 1:52
  • 1
    Once, at most. Certainly if you see multiple comments suggesting the same thing (in any context, not just about code challenges), flag all the extra ones as No Longer Needed.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jun 25 at 13:56

10 Answers 10

44

Oftentimes these are not appropriate and unwarranted.

Comments are there to help clarify or improve their parent post. The comment author's personal preference for learning strategies does not fit that bill. Divining the asker's personal learning history and state of mind does not fit that bill. Theorising about a hypothetical person who is definitely not the asker does not fit that bill.
Now, at times one might suspect that an asker lacks the proper learning background and thus might be missing a critical piece of information. If so, a comment asking specifically whether the question already considers that piece of information fits that bill.

0
42

We do not just answer any question without context.

Correct

If someone asks

How to pet a shark

Then the correct answer might be

Left hand first, then follow up with the right hand slowly

That is correct. Experienced shark petters will recognize it as the right thing to do when petting a shark.

But

Experienced people in general should warn inexperienced people that you should not start out going into the water in shorts closing in on a shark.

Even if you theoretically know the correct technique now, you should not pet sharks as a newbie! Even if you accidentially succeed with all your limbs still attached, there was zero learning happening.

Posting just the correct answer, without also posting the warning is evil. Like giving someone a gun without a safety lesson, or showing someone food without mentioning it's rotten inside.

So?

So don't be the lawfully evil, correct person. Any robot can replace us, if that is our purpose here.

Be a contextually aware, friendly, helpful human being.

That includes commenting on something outside of the direct scope of the question if you think it helps the OP with their problem.


No sharks were harmed or petted in this question. Do not pet sharks at home. This answer was written by a professional loudmouth experienced at talking about things they know nothing about. Pet sharks responsibly. Don't pet and drive.
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    how many such comments warning about safety of petting sharks are acceptable on a question asking what a shark's skin is made of? or a question asking how sharks sense electric current?
    – starball
    Commented Jun 20 at 8:08
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    Depends on the question. I don't mind the "correct" answer, if in the context of the question it is clear that such a warning is not required. In your coding challenge context, if someone with a certain skill in the language wants to sharpen it and challenge themselves, no warning is needed. If someone says "I'm just starting out, explain this basic concept to me tha I don't understand in this coding challenge" then a warning is valid in that context that a coding challenge is not the best place to learn about basic concepts.
    – nvoigt
    Commented Jun 20 at 8:17
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    You have to be lawfully evil. To not do that would be to willingly break the site rules. As you are recommending to do here by recommending to abuse comments for things they are not intended. We don't own the site, the only right thing to do is play ball. If the company wants us to be friendly and helpful, well then the site needs a serious makeover.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jun 20 at 11:54
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    I agree with this; there are many very bad sources of learning out there on the Interwebs and as fellow programmers we have an obligation to call that out. Many newbies are actually aware that they are using bad sources of learning - because they are newbies, they have no way to tell. Now of course we could do that without snark, which is where many such comments fail (I'm guilty of that in the past too).
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 20 at 14:04
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    Furthermore the essence of SO should be to teach engineering best practices and industry standards, always. This is much more important than answering some mildly interesting, highly localized question to the letter.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 20 at 14:06
  • The opposition of lawful evil is labeled as "chaotic good". I think we have 2 camps here
    – Ooker
    Commented Jun 21 at 2:50
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    @Ooker yes. those that want Stack Overflow to be useful, and those that want Stack Overflow to be Reddit.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jun 21 at 8:26
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    If possible, we can always write a correct answer with the right amount of (slightly opinionated) warnings that something can be dangerous and include alternatives in the answer.
    – dan1st
    Commented Jun 22 at 11:41
  • You had my +1 at "how to pet a shark". I think you've written my new favorite answer to just about everything :D
    – Tieson T.
    Commented Jun 22 at 22:35
18

If by "appropriate" you mean "acceptable under the bounds of the Code of Conduct and in keeping with maintaining the community", then yes, such comments are completely appropriate. While they may be opinionated, on balance they will be helpful. Saying "you're doing it wrong" isn't an insult when it's properly phrased and well intended.

If by "appropriate" you mean "useful towards advancing the goals of the site", then no, not really. In principle, what matters is the question, not the asker; it's not our concern if the underlying problem is XY, because someone else might actually validly need the question answered - even if the OP is making a mistake by trying to get this answer and act on it.

That is, as long as the question meets standards. If it doesn't, then generally just have a pile of people in the comments trying to say something useful while still properly rejecting the question from the site.

But if the question does meet standards, then it presumably won't get deleted, and the comments won't have long-term use to anyone else. Please flag these as "no longer needed".

In the object example, there turned out to be a useful question indeed - it's not obvious that Leetcode is combining the provided code with some other pre-set code (a test harness and the actual tests), and thus someone could very easily walk away with the mistaken impression that C++ somehow offers an alternate entry point model. It's worth addressing that.

The problem is that the comments blew up because the question was phrased, well, in the way that someone who actually has such a question would naturally ask it. Which invited commentary on the actual code in the example, on the very idea of using such a site or service, and countless other things.

This is a good opportunity to remind everyone involved, one more time, that Stack Overflow is not a discussion forum.

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I find all comments like this completely irrelevant.

A question should be judged on its own merits and answered with the intention that it will be solving the question for the next person with the same question.

So what sparked a question is unimportant and the focus should be on whether there is something within the post that is useful for others. There is no universal learning strategy that will be useful for everyone.

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    Isn't this why it's in a comment, not an answer? It's meant to be tangential advice.
    – Barmar
    Commented Jun 20 at 20:53
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    I think I wouldn't say what sparked the question in unimportant. depending on context, some people considering driving a car with square wheels should switch to round wheels. That's why it's suggested to ask for context. I think the distinguishing factors are whether that contextual info will lead to a more useful question / answers, and/or how subjective the resulting advice is (something tricky to define).
    – starball
    Commented Jun 20 at 22:45
  • 2
    I'm a little disappointed that nobody in the original Meta question pointed out that you can accommodate a square wheel by shaping the ground a specific way. Commented Jun 21 at 0:33
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    @Barmar - it’s unsolicited advice, it’s similar to telling someone they should go on a diet when they’re telling you about a new recipe
    – Sayse
    Commented Jun 21 at 5:16
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    @starball - I agree, it’s whether someone is just trying to opine or make the OP aware of a different approach
    – Sayse
    Commented Jun 21 at 5:17
  • @KarlKnechtel - ive ridden in one, the ride is just as comfortable!
    – Sayse
    Commented Jun 21 at 5:35
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    @Sayse It's not like "telling someone they should go on a diet when they’re telling you about a new recipe". It's like telling someone they should be really careful about that fugu when they're telling you about a new recipe, especially when that person seems blissfully unaware.
    – Passer By
    Commented Jun 21 at 11:14
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    @Sayse Like pointing out that their code is open to SQL injection when they didn't ask how to secure it? This is pervasive, should we all stop showing them how to convert to prepared statements?
    – Barmar
    Commented Jun 21 at 15:11
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    @Barmar (And Passer By) - The comments that this question are about are not addressing the code at all. They are personal comments aimed at an OP and are somewhere between unnecessary and rude. Telling them to go read a book isn't useful, you may as well tell them to google it.
    – Sayse
    Commented Jun 21 at 17:06
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    @Sayse The question is where is the boundary between acceptable and unacceptable side comments. I've occasionally told someone that it appears that they're trying to implement something that's clearly beyond their experience (they have some basic syntax misunderstandings): "you need to learn to walk before you can run". Was that over the line? Note that I don't think I've ever written these "don't waste time on coding challenges" comments, although I agree with the sentiment. But I've told people they can't learn to code by trial and error.
    – Barmar
    Commented Jun 21 at 17:12
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This is a topic the community has discussed for the entire existence of the site... Where is the balance between hand holding and RTFM? Who knows. You may enter that rabbit hole here.

Clearly the highlighted comments brought up and quoted in this post are deleted so they must have been deemed inappropriate in some regard. I don't personally find them appropriate to solving the problem presented. That's the point of questions at Stack Overflow anyway, to solve the problem at hand.

Then again, it does get difficult when the solution is immediately obvious to the quite large group of experts that browse the site. We used to have "downvote and move on", but at some point it seems to have crept back towards "explain your downvote" (another balance that has been here forever).

This is one of the downsides of having people explain downvotes. Please don't explain downvotes, unless you have a history of doing it in a way that purely focuses on content and is well received (still looking for this person). Certainly don't do it in a way that includes some sort of ad hominem or makes it personal.

With regards to the broader discussion, when done right, it should always be appropriate to discuss the pitfalls or advantages of any approach, so long as it is done from an impartial and realistic point of view. I personally think that learning is the most effective when that individual's strengths for learning are played in to; and everyone has their own style for learning.

There used to be a "be nice" policy here at Stack Overflow. It has since been replaced by a Code of Conduct, but the pillars of the Be Nice framework, in my opinion, worked well and allowed for a good balance. I think the first section is worth quoting here:

Be Nice.

Whether you've come to ask questions, or to generously share what you know, remember that we’re all here to learn, together. Be welcoming and patient, especially with those who may not know everything you do. Oh, and bring your sense of humor. Just in case.

That basically covers it. But these three guidelines may help:

  1. Rudeness and belittling language are not okay. Your tone should match the way you'd talk in person with someone you respect and whom you want to respect you. If you don't have time to say something politely, just leave it for someone who does.
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    This. If I'd read this answer first I wouldn't have had to compose mine. Commented Jun 21 at 14:00
11

This particular question is pretty decent and reasonable. But quite often we run into questions where it is obvious that the OP has no clue of what they are doing what-so-ever - they are just typing random stuff and hoping it compiles.

There's no sensible way to answer and respond to such. "You really need a good book about topic x" is seriously the closest thing to a productive response that can be given. Trying to dissect their highly localized gibberish problem and pointing out individual mistakes, like haywire syntax, might answer the question. But it isn't particularly helpful to anyone. Certainly not to the OP, because they don't even have the prerequisite knowledge to understand the answer. Not to other newbies either, because the gibberish code in the question is too localized.

So such answers "to the letter" tend to just end up as pointless posing: "wee, look at me, at least I know the basics" for the purpose of impressing others that also know much more than the OP. Aka "rep farming".

The root problem is that such questions really ought to be closed since they aren't helpful to anyone including the OP. "Lacks minimal understanding of the topic" used to be a close reason, back in the days.

There's of course some exceptions where the OP is asking some FAQ and the whole Q&A has the potential to be helpful to others. That's good. But highly localized gibberish questions by someone who has not even made the effort of reading chapter 1 in a beginner-level book... not so much.

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    "they aren't helpful to anyone including the OP [...] used to be a close reason [for that]" my understanding is that now you just use downvotes for this. and under certain conditions, the roomba will step in to clean house.
    – starball
    Commented Jun 20 at 17:10
  • 4
    What does this have to do with the question about whether to comment about the value of coding challenges?
    – Barmar
    Commented Jun 20 at 20:52
  • 1
    I think it is great when comments are used this way. I'm a noob at a lot of things, and if I post some HTML using TABLES for layout, I sure hope someone gently informs me that there is a better way... EVEN IF that isn't my question!! However. If EVERY time anyone mentions "leetcode" or "w3schools" they have to endure an avalanche of "advice" to not use them... that's just irrelevant. That's just annoying Commented Jun 20 at 21:57
  • 3
    @JohnHenckel Well, you know, they do have the option of just putting together an MRE that works in a standard environment.... Commented Jun 21 at 0:30
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    @starball I think it's probably more productive to close such a question because that sends the message that it is not a suitable question for this site. Rather than to down-vote it, leave it open and wait for the rep chasers to write some answers that are obvious to everyone but the OP. There are two sensible reasons to answer a question: either you want to help the OP or you want to build a repository of knowledge valuable to future readers. If an answer does neither, it is garbage.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 21 at 20:35
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    @Barmar I would suggest to read the whole question and not just the title.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 21 at 20:38
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    @JohnHenckel Exactly, if you are asking a question about something you don't have a clue about, you are usually grateful if someone could point you to the best path from there and not just answer your (potentially very naive or XY) question to the letter. It's quite tricky to ask a specific question about a topic you don't even know anything about and SO demands that we always ask specific questions.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 21 at 20:40
5

Whether or not there's a rule against it, I believe most of the comments against coding challenge sites are probably a bad idea. I'd say it's a case-by-case basis, guided by these four questions:

  1. Do you personally believe that these sites are garbage, either not teaching the language at all, or teaching primarily bad/wrong/useless information?

    No problem if the answer is yes — heck, that's exactly what I believe — but your answer here will guide your thinking about the other three questions.

  2. Are you able to make your case against the coding challenge site in a way that's not patronizing, condescending, or rude?

    Both the rules of SO, and common courtesy, suggest that you shouldn't be any of these. But if your answer to #1 was "yes", the answer to #2 is probably not.

  3. Do you have a viable alternative to offer?

    Like it or not, the newbies frequenting those sites — and then racing over to SO for help when the answer's not easy — are, for the most part, dilettantes. They're like ordinary kids in a science museum, racing from exhibit to exhibit and banging the lids over the concealed explanations, without devoting a moment's thought to the science being explained. Realistically, they're never going to read a good book, or take a real class, or at least, not a book that's as good or a class that's as "real" as those that the resident experts learned from.

    There's a world in which there exist engaging, rewarding, fun websites for learning programming that do teach good, deep, meaningful programming concepts in a reasonable way, but I'm afraid we may not live in that world.

  4. What if you just moved on without commenting?

    Really, what's the best that can happen if you do leave a scornful comment? What's the worst that can happen if you don't?

    Yes, I know, SO is supposed to be curating a collection of high-quality questions with high-quality answers. Coding challenge sites rarely elicit either. So, I'd say, definitely downvote these questions into oblivion, but maybe keep your opinions to yourself. Leaving a scornful comment might make you feel good for a moment, but it's not going to make the sites, or the people visiting them, or the questions here about them, go away.

1
  • @#3, I think there might be some "viable alternatives" out there. I've heard Jason Turner has some "puzzle" books on stuff like object lifetime. whether someone will find it fun is subjective.
    – starball
    Commented Jun 21 at 20:45
4

Most Stack Overflow power users are professional programmers, and professional programmers tend to have a certain disdain of online judge sites, competitive programming (CP) and algorithm challenges in general:

  1. Online judge problems tend to be theoretical or contrived, and are not terribly applicable to professional programming jobs (munging together APIs, working with frameworks, making apps). Some users think SO is primarily (or exclusively) a Q&A for practical, real-world problems like these.
  2. Professionals tend to be resentful that they are (still!) often required to complete algorithm challenges as part of a hiring process even though they're not terribly applicable to their day-to-day jobs.
  3. The people who do algorithm challenges typically write poor-quality code from a production standpoint. They may not care, because the only yardstick for coding challenges is whether the solution passes the judge, and whether it can be written quickly (hence the ubiquitous comments on these questions about not using namespace std; and #include <bits/stdc++.h>, or whatever the language's equivalent CP shorthands are if it's not C++, although C++ is the de facto standard CP language).
  4. The people who typically do algorithm challenges are students and/or beginner programmers, which means they're green on multiple levels: in terms of their code quality, the educational path they're on, as well as how to ask good quality questions on Stack Overflow (or anywhere else).
  5. Professional programmers tend to resent the classical CS education curriculum based on theory and algorithm problems over real-world software development skills (they have to hire and work with graduates produced by this CS system, so there's an iron in the fire). Many schools give online judge problems as exercises.

With all this said, there's nothing wrong with being a beginner, doing online judge challenges, or writing code in a non-professional setting in any capacity ("enthusiast" programmers I believe). All are on topic on Stack Overflow, as long as the questions provide sufficient context and are otherwise complete and answerable.

The only time a comment like "don't use Leetcode to learn programming" is appropriate is if OP asks whether it's a useful way to learn programming (which is off topic anyway) or states something like "I want to write production-ready code". If they're posing a problem about an online judge site, as long as the problem is a well-asked, specific enough technical question about their existing attempt, then it's on topic and relevant.

Online exercises are arguably a pretty decent way to learn programming fundamentals (basic language features, syntax, develop problem-solving skills in a controlled environment, etc), but it's tightly coupled with competitive programming, which is a separate domain from real-world programming with its own standards. Code quality and maintainability have little value. using namespace std; and #include <bits/stdc++.h> are perfectly acceptable in CP, and are standard idioms as much as doing the opposite is in production is. That's OK. It may be aggravating that students are blissfully unaware of the issues with these practices, or with competitive coding/online judges in general, but I think the pedantry needs to be doled out judiciously. It's a matter of balancing the SO orientation towards professional, practical pedantry with the online judge domain.

What do you all think?

Don't leave these comments, in general. On rare occasions, when the question is so hopeless that there's no good way to answer it, it may be appropriate to leave some helpful advice in the comments along with a vote to close (but probably not telling OP to stop doing online judge exercises).

Is there a line?

Yes.

Is it fine and good to leave a "leetcode bad- go read textbooks" comment on any question that mentions leetcode?

No.

If there is a line, how is that line defined? Or if you have a personal line, how is your line defined?

If you write an answer to an online judge question, feel free to point out that using namespace std; is poor practice in general as an aside, but don't waste a comment for that. Some degree of unsolicited advice is good. But as for "don't do competitive programming", never post it--it's too unsolicited to the point of being irrelevant.

Go ahead and leave nitpicky, pendantic comments, but stick within the domain. The act of doing an online judge problem isn't in itself an XY problem.

Probably OK:

  • Commenting on potentially production-headed code to avoid using namespace std;.
  • Commenting that Leetcode benchmarks are unreliable, if timing is part of the question.
  • Commenting that C++ code shouldn't be written with C idioms like malloc and free, regardless of the domain (a lot of beginner C++ code is basically "C with vectors" or "C with cout").
  • Commenting to request improvements to egregious formatting and variable name issues. If code is posted on SO, even if it's for CP, it should be well-formatted and readable.

Probably noise:

  • Commenting on obvious online judge/competitive programming challenges to avoid using namespace std;. Just let 'em--it's standard in CP and basically zero risk within that domain. The focus is on solving the problem, not clean namespacing and imports. Feel free to mention in an answer as an addendum, though.
  • Commenting on a Leetcode Python question that the class method should be snake_case, per PEP-8, or that there's no need for a class (Leetcode provides classes and methods that can't be changed, and generally don't adhere to Python standards).
  • Commenting that Leetcode benchmarks are unreliable, if timing isn't part of the question.
  • Comments suggesting not doing programming challenges (or Leetcode) entirely.
  • Commenting to nitpick when you're not really sure of the domain standard idioms and you just want to grind an axe.
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    thanks for writing this. I resonate quite deeply with the points you listed out in the start of this post. I think some people have gotten a (wrong) impression that I don't think a book is a good way to learn, or that I think leetcode is a sufficient, good way to learn to write "actual" project code. If anything, I share in all those feelings you summarized. I'm only questioning when and how it's appropriate to make such comments, and I think this answers that quite reasonably. actually, of those I have read, I personally find this the most well-balanced response.
    – starball
    Commented Jun 25 at 7:07
  • 1
    Great answer. Too many people post irrelevant comments at any mention of competitive programming or an online judge. Commented Aug 10 at 20:56
2

A lot of ground has already been covered, which I won't try and retread; these comments are hard to get right, and often come across in ways that (I imagine) the commenter doesn't intend, which makes them often irrelevant.

Here's the thing I want to call out in these comments:

They frequently have the wrong focus.

I love helping askers– I think it's extremely important for Stack Overflow to give deep, meaningful explanations that take into account readers' inexperience in order to properly cover a topic or question and convey useful information effectively, which sometimes includes giving helpful advice in comments that isn't strictly related to answering the question.

Ostensibly, that's the goal of such comments... but I argue that they do no such thing.

A comment that reads something like:

These sites aren't good, you should go read a C++ book instead.

Are not helpful. Here's why:

When a commenter leaves a note like the above, they probably mean something more like:

Sites like these often do a poor job of teaching you the basic foundations of C++, which makes it harder to understand more complex topics. You should make sure you've really learned the fundamentals, like in a book, if you really want to learn how to answer this question and future ones like it.

But what an asker, a beginner, someone inexperienced, reads, is probably something more like:

You don't know enough to belong here, and your question is stupid. The time and effort you've invested isn't good enough and the way you're choosing to learn is dumb. Go away and come back when you're better, after you've spent money on a good C++ resource.

Obviously there's hyperbole there, but you've gotta understand how absurd a comment like this may sound to someone who, if we assume the best, is earnestly trying to learn and understand C++ (or ${other tool}) with the resources that they know, or were recommended, or have access to.

People learn differently, and various resources will speak to and teach folks to differing levels of effectiveness. When you just say "go buy a book", you're probably failing to represent the core goal of your critique/ advice: why a book might even be helpful to the asker in the first place.

There's nothing magic about a book, just like there's not anything intrinsically evil about these sites– it's all always in the application. You may have had awesome experiences with book learning– great! Maybe the asker really would benefit from a book. The point is: it doesn't matter if your comment emphasizes a particular learning style or format over why it would be beneficial.

Comments which do nothing more than say, fundamentally, "what learning you've done isn't good enough" or "you're not learning in the right way" are not helpful, are not kind, and come across as actively hostile at worst.

Just as we should answer with context, comments like these often fundamentally lack that very same context that could possibly make them genuinely helpful.

-6

I prefer the Don't be lawful evil viewpoint, but I think we don't need to become chaotic good just because of that. It's a black/white thinking.

The article Privileges - Comment everywhere says that I shouldn't comment when it's secondary discussion or debating a controversial point. It suggest to use chat instead. But, at least you have to put a link to the chat in the comment, right? And you can't just leave only the link, but should describe the purpose of the chat, right? And doesn't that require you to tell your concern too?

So my propose is to allow one comment to raise the concern about the OP's learning method, but require it to also raise the concern about keeping the question on-topic. For example:

It seems like you are trying to do X via Y. It is recommended to do X via Z. You can discuss more about this on this chat. Further comments below this one should focus on Y solely. See when should and shouldn't I comment.

Stepping another step, you can see that the link to the chat is just a link, and you don't really need to open a SO chat just for this. Instead, you can link to another discussion place that focus on how and why Z is superior than Y in doing X, like Software Engineering SE, Reddit, etc.

At this point, you can see that recommending a better learning method is really no different to how we have always dealt with an XY problem: discuss the problem of the XY problem in the comment and link to an elaborated resource.

This also suggests that we have taken all XY problem warning comments loose, as they are also secondary discussions. They should be required to explain how bad they are as a quality SE comment. Whatever treatment the XY problem warning comment receives, the learning method warning comment should receive the same.

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    It doesn't matter any more really. We've lived long enough to see ourselves become the villain. The latching onto the "AI" bandwagon is a clear sign society is ready to make the next step into not caring about the correctness/quality of information; Stack Overflow, one of the few sites which enforces quality, just really does not fit in that world. People want it fast, not factual.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jun 21 at 8:32
  • 3
    @Gimby in a general context then I agree with you. And that's interesting to discuss. However, in this topic specifically, I'm not sure how it's applied? This is basically an XY problem, and the site has been discussed about it from the beginning. I fail to see how that is the quality of information problem, as the chaotic good camp also justifies itself as providing quality information.
    – Ooker
    Commented Jun 21 at 8:39
  • An actual XY problem is a problem of the question - one where the asked about Y does not make sense as-is and thus warrants asking for details, including if a hypothetical X or Z is deliberately not covered by the question. This is exactly in line with the purpose of comments. We don’t have to throw the rules out of the bathtub for that. Commented Jun 23 at 6:35

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