Consider the following question, which is representative of a certain class of questions that get posted with some frequency on Stack Overflow.
How to find length of array in C++?
I want to write a function to find the length of array. If input is like this
4, 6, 9, 3, 2, 8, 1
I want the output to be like this
7
I have got this homework problem, and it can't be solved even after 1 hour of trying :(
Thank you so much for helping, you are the best!! Have a lovely day :)
Now consider the following bullet#3 in the help/on-topic page.
Some questions are still off-topic, even if they fit into one of the categories listed above:
...
- Questions asking for homework help are not inherently off-topic. However, you must have made a good faith attempt to solve it yourself. The question must include a summary of the work you've done so far to solve the problem, and a description of the difficulty you are having solving it. For more detail, see How do I ask and answer homework questions?
...
My interpretation of this text, and give me some rope here, is that questions asking for homework help are off-topic if the OP does not show a good faith attempt at solving the problem, and does not include a summary of the work they have done so far, as well as a description of the difficulty they are having while solving it.
If I'm understanding the text correctly, that would make the above question off-topic. And unless I'm misunderstanding the intent of the [help/on-topic] page, the bullets listed in the off-topic section are examples of reasons why a question could be closed.
There is no actual close reason for "no effort homework help", and adding a new reason to the close vote interface is not a trivial undertaking. But if it's a valid close reason, then I think I should be able to use a custom close reason stating that. I think something like the following reason, and give me some more rope here, could be made to work.
I'm voting to close this question because it is asking for homework help but doesn't show any attempt at solving the problem, and as such is off-topic as outlined in the help center.
I don't recall having seen anyone vote to close with such a custom reason, although it is occasionally used as a close reason for a cv-pls
request in SOCVR (here's one example of that). It is currently unclear to me whether such a request is acceptable. I've asked for clarification on this, and currently this is the only response I have gotten.
That's going to depend. No effort isn't a close reason. They do have to have tried, but there is no minimum amount of work required.
This is very confusing to me. There is simultaneously no minimum amount of work required, and some minimum amount that they need to have tried? To be frank, the last statement looks like a contradiction in terms to me. And yes, no effort is not a close reason. So what exactly does this depend upon? This confusing response is also surprising as it comes from a user who in my experience has always been extremely clear and precise in what they say.
Note that currently most cv-pls
requests to close "no effort homework help" questions also have an additional standard close reason tacked on to them, usually a variant of Needs Focus. This is not actually the case for several of these questions, and being able to close with just the actual reason would be much nicer.
Also, since no effort is undoubtedly not a close reason, it seems I can simply edit out any reference to homework in the above question, and that would make the question on-topic. This approach has been noted before and seems to have some support (at least as far as the 9 stars next to the message would suggest).
If someone asks an answerable question that they mention is homework, I'll often edit that out, lest someone closes it for that reason.
Note that the above question is a duplicate of this canonical target (I'm glad the OP on that question didn't admit it was homework, or we may not have this canonical at all). But finding duplicate targets can be hard, and in some cases they don't even exist.
Obviously, none of the other standard close reasons apply to the above question. Of course, in general a homework question may Need Focus, or Need Details/Clarity, etc., and any number of close reasons may be applicable to it. And in that case of course, it's acceptable to close the question with any of those reasons.
My question is simply whether bullet#3 in [help/in-topic] is sufficient to let me close the question with some variant of the above stated custom reason?
If a question being a request for homework help without any shown attempt is not a sufficient reason to close that question, then I would claim that bullet#3 is actively misleading, and should be removed entirely from [help/on-topic].
This argument is not based on the utility of the guidance on homework questions, but on the fact that the bullets in [help/on-topic] are taken quite seriously by curators, and are frequently used as justification for why questions should be closed. Note also that this is inconsistent: immediately following the guidance for homework questions in the primary help page, there is guidance on how much research effort should be put in before asking a question. For very good reasons, the guidance on research effort is not included as a bullet point in [help/on-topic], and it seems inconsistent to make an exception for the guidance on homework to be included in that list.
Editing the [help] pages is trivial, and I know of at least 2 diamond moderators who will edit that page if there is consensus on meta that it does need editing.
Finally, I'd like to add that I'm sensitive to the fact that many users have strong feelings about homework questions, and resolving one particular bullet in the [help] pages is not going to change everyone's (anyone's?) mind. This meta is simply trying to address one very specific aspect of the issue. The hope is that eventually, with enough time, there will be some sort of consensus about how Stack Overflow should deal with homework, and this meta is just one tiny step towards that goal.