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I read:

  • Google CEO says a quarter of the company’s new code is already AI generated.
  • According to Stack Overflow’s 2024 Developer Survey, over 75 percent of respondents are already using or are “planning to use” AI tools to assist with software development.
  • Another survey by GitHub indicated that 92 percent of US-based developers are currently using AI coding tools.

Based on this overwhelming use of genAI for coding, could the 2-year-old ban on using genAI for coding in SO answers be lifted? The ban was established when LLMs were much weaker (e.g., ~230 fewer elos on this benchmark) and when humans were less acquainted with LLMs.

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  • 8
    Google’s share prices have spiked since their “AI gamble”. They will no doubt be keen for that price to keep rising, hence statements like that. Take what they say with a few healthy pinches of salt; ask yourself how much of that code was likely to have been accepted into the codebase without extensive human review, for example
    – Clive
    Commented Oct 31 at 13:34
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    Please read up on the echo-chamber effect of reinforced bad practices that this change could cause. Google's behavior should not dictate how this site operates, but rather common sense and good data should. Commented Oct 31 at 13:39
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    If someone wants LLM generated vomit, they can go to an LLM and ask it for vomit. The reason users come to Stack Overflow is because the content isn't vomitted out by an LLM. Quality is the important thing to the community here, and we ensure that with human beings answering and validating the content posted here.
    – Thom A
    Commented Oct 31 at 13:40
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    Btw, the ban is not (only) about coding in SO answers, but about writing answers with LLMs. Given that we still find users copy-pasting LLM content into SO answers, mostly without checking and on high volume, I'd say that the ban is still valid.
    – BDL
    Commented Oct 31 at 13:43
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    But that’s just arguing that you should because you can (debatable how true “can” is, but that’s your argument). Doesn’t seem strong. What are you fixing or improving?
    – Clive
    Commented Oct 31 at 14:05
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    Exactly that - By allowing AI-generated content what is improved or fixed on Stack Overflow vs the current order?
    – Clive
    Commented Oct 31 at 14:09
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    Doubt it, people will just have to be more on their guard when reviewing. Robbing Peter to pay Paul, as it were
    – Clive
    Commented Oct 31 at 14:13
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    I didn't say that users didn't want to use LLMs, @FranckDernoncourt, I said that users didn't want LLM vomit when they are looking for solutions to a problem on Stack Overflow. A user is welcome to ask a LLM their question prior to browsing or asking on Stack Overflow, and seeing in the vomit it gives them does something they want, but if it doesn't or if the LLM is unable to give them vomit they understand, then they may well want to ask here, where human being will actually provide content that the author themselves understands.
    – Thom A
    Commented Oct 31 at 14:17
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    I will flag and downvote any contribution, where I have a high confidence, was generated by a LLM. I don't care who submitted it. I have spent hours and days verifying and reporting hundreds of answers submitted by an author, due to a single confirmation, of a LLM answer by that author. Users who want to use LLM to submit answers, make me suspicious of their content, suspicious enough that I often will verify their contributions. Commented Oct 31 at 16:02
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    The logic of your second bullet does not follow. I am using AI tools to assist with software development, but I will never ever post an AI-generated answer to StackOverflow and I am a strong supporter of the ban, for the reasons illustrated in the answer. Also see my answer to a related question. Commented Oct 31 at 16:31
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    I really don't get why this pops up time after time. If you want to use AI, use it then. Nobody stops you from using it directly. Why do you want to force it onto Stack Overflow? Why should people use SO to get their AI generated answers, when they can just ask the AI directly?
    – Lino
    Commented Oct 31 at 18:01
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    It does not. Experts should answer questions, if you have to use an AI to help you answer a question then you shouldn't be answering it. Commented Oct 31 at 18:47
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    @FranckDernoncourt I don’t see why anyone who has the expertise to check+improve an AI answer wouldn’t simply post one themselves.
    – blackgreen Mod
    Commented Oct 31 at 19:21
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    "Based on this overwhelming use of genAI for coding" - absolutely not, because none of this has absolutely anything whatsoever to do for the reasoning behind the ban. And you know this; you were in that discussion, and in fact extensive discussion all over MSO and MSE about AI is the only reason I recognize your name. Commented Oct 31 at 20:00
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    @FranckDernoncourt People use it is not the same as it's good. Commented Nov 1 at 1:17

1 Answer 1

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NO

  • Even assuming that Google's CEO has an accurate picture of who and how writes their gargantuan code base, what they do is not our concern.

  • Using AI to assist with software development is not the same as presenting solutions to other people's questions as if you were a subject-matter expert.

The main issues with AI posts (answers in particular) which prompted the ban all remain:

  1. No matter how good a GenAI model is, they can still hallucinate. There's even research that suggests AI models may never not hallucinate. The burden of vetting such content that looks good on the surface but may be fundamentally flawed then falls on the shoulders of an already strained community.
  2. GenAI content can be produced at a much faster rate than what the community is able to curate/moderate
  3. Even for vetted content, moderators (but anyone except the poster really) are unable to verify claims that the content was actually vetted beforehand. It'd come down to hunches and subjective bias. That kind of moderation is prone to be unfair and ineffective.
  4. plagiarism: after having handled thousands of AI flags on this site, I can tell you that almost nobody gives proper credit to the AI. Folks tend to present the content as their own, thus misrepresenting someone else's work.
  5. The only value proposition that Stack Overflow still has over an LLM is that there's the expectation that a human being has authored the text as written.
  6. Allowing for an exception this big to the AI ban would open the floodgates.

There is a case to be made about using AI to improve a post's grammar, formatting, etc. but that suffers from the same issues as point #3.

I really don't see how we could realistically allow AI content in almost any form while staying true to Stack Overflow's values and a Community made of humans at its core.

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    "No matter how good a GenAI model is, they can still hallucinate." just like humans. " I can tell you that almost nobody gives proper credit to the AI." it's banned, so giving proper credit to the AI = "please ban me". Commented Oct 31 at 13:50
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    @FranckDernoncourt Even when it wasn't banned no one gave proper credit. Commented Oct 31 at 14:20
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    Few people will be willing to admit they have no idea what they're doing and just let an AI do it for them.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 31 at 15:03
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    @FranckDernoncourt When humans hallucinate, it's usually more obviously wrong, and even when it isn't they can't output realistic-looking nonsense at nearly the same rate that AI can so either way it's much less of a curation/moderation burden (I notice you didn't address any of blackgreen's points about that). Commented Oct 31 at 18:01
  • @JohnMontgomery I agree with blackgreen's point ("GenAI content can be produced at a much faster rate than what the community is able to curate/moderate") about that. But there could be way to address it, eg demand min rate and thresholding post/hour. Commented Oct 31 at 18:05
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    But why bother putting in extra systems for something which delivers no value? “I can expend less effort” doesn’t seem reasonable - if you don’t have the time/will, then don’t do it, leave it for those that do. Unless I’m missing something, that’s the only argument you’re making for this change?
    – Clive
    Commented Oct 31 at 18:10
  • @Clive Yes, that’s the main argument I am making for this change. (imho, a strong one). Another argument is accessibility (e.g., some people can't type much due to medical condition). Commented Oct 31 at 18:23
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    I’ve never heard (until now) anyone saying that they would contribute more/better to Stack Overflow if they only had to spend less effort. That seems like the opposite of what we want to encourage.
    – Clive
    Commented Oct 31 at 18:37
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    re: "the only value proposition". I like to think we have more than that over LLMs :/
    – starball
    Commented Nov 1 at 4:37
  • that NO can't be emphasized enough. if anyone wants to turn it into a granite monument that can be seen from orbit, I'd give a few bucks for the cause... and thank you for having the patience to list all the reasons why. Commented Nov 11 at 10:44

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