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More and more I'm seeing vague "something is broken but I don't know what please help" questions that should be closed, but instead other users post in the comments "upload your code to GitHub and post a link here and I'll have a look at it". This is obviously against the site's rules that questions must be self-contained, and is yet another example of how some users are apparently hell-bent on turning SO into a discussion forum.

Example one (now deleted by asker after they had a hissy fit when we asked them to follow the rules - image below), two (with an answer to boot) - both on the front page at the time of writing.

I want to make said rule and its implications absolutely clear. The rule is that questions posted to Stack Overflow are required to be entirely self-contained. This implies that any link in a question to an external resource, that is required to understand and answer that question, is not allowed. The reason being that this being the Internet, links are liable to go dead... and if this should happen, that question would no longer be self-contained.

Therefore, the possibility that a link could go dead precludes context-critical links from being present in questions. Ever. Full stop. That is the rule, it is unambiguous, there is no negotiation or interpretation possible.

A link to a GitHub code repository is context-critical to a question, therefore its presence in a question invalidates that question. A comment asking for such a link is worse, because not only is it an implicit acknowledgement that the question is invalid, it is encouraging the asker to make their question worse!

But over and above that, such comments in my experience end up causing comment chains. They start with one along the lines of "have you tried X", with the asker responding "no but i will try it" then "no it didn't work", which repeats ad infinitum until you have a chain longer than my arm. That is a discussion, and Stack Overflow is not a discussion forum.

Since none of the canned flag reasons cover this case, what would be the best custom text to use to assist mods in removing these expeditiously? Or would a new canned flag reason be appropriate for this new epidemic?

Question

Comments

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  • 7
    Something like "Comment gives very bad advice that will likely result in additional downvotes and hasten the closure and deletion of the question." Commented Sep 21, 2023 at 20:26
  • 6
    Ping them in a comment, and explain what's wrong. Go to their profile, and read through their recent comments. If there's a pattern, flag for moderator attention, and explain this pattern. If not, flag as NLN. Commented Sep 21, 2023 at 20:40
  • 6
    One of the users responded with an unfriendly comment to your ping about them breaking the rules. Just flag it as U/U, and a moderator might get involved without any more effort. Moderators also flag accounts themselves, so they'll know that this has happened, in case it happens again. Commented Sep 21, 2023 at 20:49
  • "how some users are apparently hell-bent on turning SO into a discussion forum" sounds irrelevant to me, also in your Comment in Qt_two... That a Qt (Question) should be posted on 'SO' with all Code (=> Qt self-contained) to understand/reproduce instead of using any external resource has nothing to do with "turning SO into a discussion forum"...
    – chivracq
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 2:25
  • 2
    @chivracq It absolutely does, because questions that are unable to be answered as-is invariably attract comments along the lines of "have you tried X", with the asker responding "no but i will try it" and "no it didn't work", repeated ad infinitum. That is a discussion, and Stack Overflow isn't a discussion forum.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 9:35
  • @AndreasismovingtoCodidact they rage-deleted their question, so I could not care less. Don't want or need that level of immaturity here.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 9:42
  • @IanKemp I also received several revenge downvotes on SO and Codidact after I engaged in the comment section there. I could be wrong about the source of these revenge downvotes; that's just a speculation, but if I'm correct, that's an argument against my suggestion to flag for NLN, and additionally leave a comment. It's not fun getting involved in this, when you get people after you, that even follow you to other sites. Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 10:12
  • 1
    @AndreasismovingtoCodidact I take revenge downvotes as a badge of honour.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 10:19
  • 1
    @Ian Well, yeah, they get reversed here, but don't follow me around the internet just because you (not Ian) hate me. That crosses a line. Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 10:21
  • 2
    @AndreasismovingtoCodidact Remember that they hate because they fear. Sneak up on them and shout "Boo!" Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 18:11

1 Answer 1

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Flag such comments as NLN by default

A comment that gives wrong advice was never needed; therefore it is "no longer" needed. This is a perfectly intended use of the flagging reason.

If you have noticed a pattern of the same user proposing the addition of off-site code, and you have already tried the above steps to communicate about the problem and been ignored or rebuked, only then raise a custom flag to signal the problem to moderators.

Offer better advice instead

Why?

Speaking of a userbase flooded with people who ignore policy - it's very hard to find people who care about the fact that questions (and answers) are never urgent on Stack Overflow. The system immediately notifies people of comment feedback, and people typically don't post things on the Internet because they want to wait around; thus, if OP is paying attention to the question at all then the clock starts ticking as soon as the ill-conceived comment is posted. Moderators have their hands full of everything all the time; even if one happened to be available immediately to remove the comment, they aren't necessarily going to take the time to say anything to the misguided commenter or to OP, or do anything else. After all, that's time that could be spent investigating the next flagged comment.

Aside from that, moderators have limited options anyway for communication. They can comment like regular users; beyond that their options are a very heavy-handed and special-purpose DM system (they can initiate, and users get one chance to respond, and the entire system is framed as "this is an official warning"), or just suspend the account outright.

Even if a moderator did everything you'd hope for in handling the flag, the original comment might still have been seen by the OP, who might have no reason to doubt the advice.

How?

Therefore, before taking any system action, write your own advice, as quickly as possible. My proposal is to have a copy-and-paste form comment ready for this situation, to minimize time and effort. It is better to ping the user who wrote the incorrect comment, for educational purposes only; of course, the tone should be polite and formal throughout.

Here's my first attempt:

Contrary to @ 's advice, **please do not** upload code for questions posted 
here to external code-sharing sites such as GitHub. Keep in mind that Stack 
Overflow is **not a discussion forum or help desk**; as such, it's not a place 
to solicit off-site analysis. All the code needed to explain the problem 
[**must**](//meta.stackoverflow.com/q/254428) be included **in 
the question itself**. Please also see our guidance for how to create a proper 
[mre].

Fill in the username after the @ as needed. I put a space before the apostrophe so that tab-completing the username will work; you may want to delete that before submitting the comment.

I line-wrapped the template to 80 columns for display purposes here; but there is a space at the end of each line except the last, so it should work with copy and paste. (Of course, adding a username will break the line wrapping, but that also obviously doesn't matter.)

On shooting first and asking questions later

After you have posted such a comment by copy and paste, feel free to offer your own, more specific advice in the comments for improving the question; and make sure to vote or flag to close as appropriate. Consider also downvoting answers that are offered to poor questions.

For example, in the second case you cited (the one I checked out first) the question got closed as not reproducible, which is reasonable. If more perceptive users had come along first and thought of the possible problem with the .csproj file, they could have instead voted/flagged as "needs debugging details", and offered comments about how to debug .csproj files or even include one as part of a MRE. (I don't know if it's possible to edit them down to a few lines while reproducing the problem; but it would be better if that were the case.)

Even better would be for the C# tag regulars to establish a canonical about recognizing and fixing .csproj file issues.

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  • 4
    I'd not strictly discourage repo links. As long as the [mre] is available inline in the question post, I think a supplementary repo link for the same [mre] is nice if there are multiple files. can save me time setting it up locally.
    – starball
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 0:08
  • @starball I'm grateful for any suggestions to tweak the wording. If it needs to be expanded, this version currently leaves a bit over 100 characters to spare (I don't know exactly how much allowance is needed for usernames). Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 2:04
  • 1
    Like the Comment I left on OP's Qt (Question), I don't understand why you both focus so much on "discussion forum" (+ "help desk" even here), those 2 have nothing to do with a Qt being self-contained with the (minimal) Code (to understand/reproduce the Pb) to be included in the Qt.
    – chivracq
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 3:13
  • 4
    I would recommend less expressions in bold in the canned comment. I understand that that is your brand at this point, but it is a bit too invasive and could trigger other defensive responses like the one in the question. See also: Why is bolding considered unnecessary?
    – E_net4
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 9:55
  • 6
    I also tend to agree with the sentiment that there was too much focus on the "not a discussion forum" argument all 'round. The statement deviates from the intent to clarify that the question must be self-contained, and it does not really contribute much more than pushing sensitive minds into escalating the heat.
    – E_net4
    Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 10:00
  • Is there a way to workshop the comment template that doesn't involve edit warring? Commented Sep 22, 2023 at 18:04
  • 2
    “Consider also downvoting answers that are offered to poor questions.” with a link to a question where the consensus seems to be “No, that is not appropriate.” is a weird choice.
    – Cimbali
    Commented Sep 24, 2023 at 18:21
  • 1
    @Cimbali I linked to the version of the question where I gave my own answer and reasoning against that consensus. Not linking directly to my answer is just my attempt to stay impartial. I say "consider" for a reason. Commented Sep 24, 2023 at 21:09

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