118

There is an ongoing moderation strike.

Both parties have explained their standpoint:

Moderation Strike update: Data dumps, choosing representatives, GPT data, and where we’re holding

Statement from SO: June 5, 2023 Moderator Action

I wonder how the strike has had an impact on you as a user of SO?

Which kind of strangeness/deteriorations have you noticed?

21
  • 7
    The only difference I've noticed so far is that it takes a lot longer to be able to submit an edit to the queue, it says it's full a lot of the time. Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 18:35
  • 6
    @BrockBrown You also only have 4 flags and 6 edits, so you would have likely seen more consequences if you did more curation. Have you seen any more spam? Depends on how much you use the site, especially if looking at recent questions. No more occurences of NAAs? Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 19:00
  • 4
    @Andreasdetestscensorship Right, let me clarify that I submit edits only casually, not rigorously. I do browse pretty frequently though, and answer semi-frequently. It seems like questions still get closed about as often as they usually do, but it takes a little longer for them to get marked as duplicates. Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 19:10
  • 47
    There's 3300 posts with pending flags (and counting) Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 19:25
  • 7
    Nothing discernible to the average user. Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 19:47
  • 4
    @ZoestandswithUkraine Yes, I read that in the linked post. My question is how this impacts the ordinary users. And how does that impact the future of SO.
    – 4386427
    Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 19:53
  • 44
    I'm an average StackOverflow user - I see some off-topic posts like (fake example) "my cat is meowing, what should I do?" lingering for more than a day instead of being closed.
    – Dave S
    Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 20:11
  • 3
    A little early to talk about this, IMO. Patience is a virtue. So far I haven't really noticed a difference myself, but I'm not a power user.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 8:24
  • 3
    I've seen a lot more trash washing up on MSE (and there are a few questions with comments 'this is blatantly off-topic, but not flagging in support of the strike'
    – Redz
    Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 3:59
  • 14
    I do not see any impact, but that is because I have given up on the main site long ago and basically only look at the scifi stack, which somewhat hilariously is moderated and self-policed to a much higher standard than the main site (not blaming mods btw., I just feel that volume over reason is now company policy). I would not trust SO these days to explain to me a "hello world" programm in JS, but if I require high fidelity information on if there is canonical evidence that emperor Palpatine can shoot force lightnings from his toes as well as his fingers, I know where to look. Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 8:17
  • 11
    @EikePierstorff Don't leave us hanging here. Can he?
    – code11
    Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 16:52
  • 4
    "I wonder how the strike has had an impact on you as a user of SO" - For me, not much has changed. I'm still flagging/downvoting/commenting on a lot of very obvious ChatGPT answers, which either results in the User telling me to screw off (and thus me flagging that comment too 😅), the answer being deleted (either by the User or other community members), or... nothing at all. I've (mostly jokingly) considered recruiting a bunch of 20K+ rep users and collectively nuking these as we find them (via the Downvote > Delete privilege), but that feels wrong. So for now, the crappy content remains 😔
    – Tim Lewis
    Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 18:30
  • 3
    in the ancient past we already tried running Q&A site without moderation. In the longer run it ended in tears. "Sadly, it didn't work out.."
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 20:13
  • 2
    @TimLewis - How is it wrong to delete garbage contributions? I have no problem downvoting and voting to delete any contributions that (smells, visual identical, and sounds) like garbage generated by OpenAI. I am still not improving contributions. Downvoting and delete votes are essential all I am casting these last couple of days Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 16:17
  • 3
    @TimLewis - It’s a community ran effort to essentially, flag spam on user’s behalf (have to opt-in), to quickly delete spam. Buts it’s also on strike hence the increase in spam. Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 16:54

12 Answers 12

77

June 14, 2023

Open flags

Something of a snapshot of unhandled flags at present. Most of those are comment flags, but there are 600+ mod flags open (mod flags are typically slow to handle). For contrast, we only had around 70 flags in there (and most of those were reminders on large-scale serial plagiarizers).

The real impact is here. This whole list is nothing but SE employees over the last 7 days. Normally these only show up in long-range reports (i.e. yearly) with a handful of flags.

Employee mods

June 28, 2023

Open Flags - 7627 on June 28, 2023

Moderators have handled 676 flags in the previous 7 days. Unfortunately, I can't provide a date range so until we reach the 1 month mark, longer predefined time frames will overlap with a time period before the strike.

Stack Exchange employees have handled 369 flags in the previous 7 days.

The 600+ mod flag number from the previous update is now up to ~1500 (I expect it to reach that at some point today).

July 6, 2023

10,180 pending flags

We've reached (and exceeded) 10k pending flags!

The strike has now gone on for a full month, so full stats can be given for that time period (from June 6, 2023 to July 6, 2023):

  • Total flags raised: 33,207
  • Average handling time: 5 days, 9 hours, 39 minutes (Note that this stat only includes flags that were actually handled; flags that have never been handled have infinite handling time, and this is not factored into the statistic.)
  • Total flags handled by elected moderators who considered themselves "active": 721
  • Total flags handled by elected moderators who considered themselves inactive (either due to the strike or other unrelated personal reasons): 1376
  • Total flags handled by staff: 1108

July 25, 2023

16139 Moderator flags pending

  • Flags raised since June 25, 2023 (one month): 38,549
  • Average handling time: 6 days, 15 hours, 8 minutes (Note that this stat only includes flags that were actually handled; flags that have never been handled have infinite handling time, and this is not factored into the statistic.)
  • Total flags handled by elected moderators who considered themselves "active": 436
  • Total flags handled by elected moderators who considered themselves inactive (either due to the strike or other unrelated personal reasons): 2,282
  • Total flags handled by staff: 570
15
  • Dang, they've updated the CSS on that page.. Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 14:10
  • 4
    @BhargavRao Yeah, they condensed a few things and switched to the Stacks way of doing things
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 14:46
  • Does it mean that currently no flags are handled by mods on SO? Or are these numbers just on a subset of all possible actions? Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 16:56
  • 3
    @NoDataDumpNoContribution There are some non-striking mods doing some flag work, but it's not much more than the above numbers
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 17:03
  • 3
    Is it easily possible to estimate by how much percent flag handling by mods has decreased over the whole network? I guess the ratio is probably much higher than the 22% of mods officially taking part in the strike. Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 17:13
  • 7
    I don't have anything to compare it to, sadly. I didn't think to look at stats before the strike started
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 17:17
  • 6
    33k flags were raised in one month, approx. 3k flags were handled and 10k flags are pending. What happened to the other 20k flags? Did they age away or resolve automatically? Commented Jul 6, 2023 at 12:25
  • Yep @Cody, just like #NoData[...], 33,207-(721+1376+1108)=30,002 => 30,002 <<>> 10,180...! => 20K Flags are "missing" in your Post (Update from 2023-07-06, 1 month in the Strike), any explanation...?
    – chivracq
    Commented Jul 7, 2023 at 2:54
  • 8
    The "total flags raised" number is literally the total number of flags raised. The ~10k number (blue box in screenshot) is the number of posts/comments with at least one active flag. If a post/comment gets multiple flags, the "total flags raised" number will increment, but the number in blue will not.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 7, 2023 at 5:05
  • Ah OK, got it...! Thanks @Cody... Maybe worth mentioning that in the "Legend" explaining the Numbers... (We were already 2 Users "thinking" that the "Numbers" were not "right"...)
    – chivracq
    Commented Jul 7, 2023 at 5:12
  • 1
    Well, you're trying to overthink and out-math the statistics. Don't do that. :-)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 7, 2023 at 10:30
  • Is there a way to know how many posts/comments that are flagged have been handled and how many remain or is it not an interesting metric? Commented Jul 11, 2023 at 8:54
  • 2
    @Standard_101 The breakdown in the mod console is only for pending flags. Once handled, they all fall into the same bucket of "flags handled". FWIW, staff are handling spam/rude flags and very little else. Even non-striking mods aren't doing much. I don't expect many comment flags have been handled at all.
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Jul 11, 2023 at 12:23
  • 1
    Are you planning to give another uodate on this, just to see the trends after the strike? Although a couple of active mods took some time off after the strike, I still am wondering how fast things are going back to "normal". p.s. very late night thoughts, sorry if I am not coherent. Commented Aug 17, 2023 at 7:14
  • 3
    @M-- There's currently around 6000 flags open, down from the high around 19,000, and the lion's share are moderator flags about ChatGPT. That queue will take a while to get through, especially having to gauge it against the new rules about when we can and can't take action.
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Aug 17, 2023 at 12:46
70

Improvement efforts on Stack Overflow slowed way down, leaving junk on the site. Many Stack Overflow review queue lengths increased.

Review Queues and Flags

As I originally wrote this, I didn't have any hard figures about what the queue lengths were before the strike, but I noticed that while some queues have about the same length, some got bigger.

Tracking weekly since Tue. June 13, 2023:

Date 1st Q Close V. Late Ans. 1st Ans. Triage Sugg. Ed. Reopen LQA
June 13 6,274 2,716 2,017 727 496 495 441 310
June 20 7,044 2,745 2,319 1,296 497 440 364 534
June 27 6,588 2,730 2,380 1,698 496 437 402 782
July 4 5,940 2,442 2,271 1,646 472 496 480 1,110
July 11 6,660 2,757 2,130 2,101 500 486 505 1,274
July 18 6,168 2,755 2,252 2,451 500 480 499 1,365
July 25 5,440 2,845 2,323 2,927 490 489 486 1,545
Aug. 1 5,318 2,537 2,545 2,947 499 490 544 1,648
Aug. 8 5,084 2,734 1,971 2,510 487 490 459 857
Aug. 15 4,383 2,171 2,166 1,905 491 496 306 321
Aug. 22 3,793 2,461 1,958 1,794 494 494 317 111
Aug. 29 3,736 2,371 1,552 1,661 459 442 215 162

Review Queue Graph

Triage and Suggested Edits are capped at 500a, so they haven't changed much.

But I noticed reopen votes rising, and one where I had contributed recently, Low Quality Answers, was up a lot. Low Quality Answers used to hang around 100-150, sometimes dipping into the double digits. I saw it as low as 17 a couple weeks before the strike.

The obvious implication is that if review time per item is held steady, average time for resolution increased, including flags associated with the review queues. On Close Votes, votes are more likely to age away, so fewer posts on Stack Overflow that should get closed were getting closed, resulting in more junk visible on the site.

I would imagined that flags piled up, and Zoe's comment seems to back up that conjecture. Problems weren't being remediated.

The site quality went down during the strike.

Tag Cleanup

The tag was in the middle of being burninated. When I started contributing to that effort a few weeks ago, the tag was still on over 2,200 questions. A few weeks later, the count got down below 1,100. But since the strike started and that post was no longer featured, the count has hardly budged. One June 13, it was on 1,040 questions. There are now 4 questions since July 7 that still have this tag. Tag cleanups slowed way down.

Date Number of Questions with [connect]
June 13 1,040
June 20 1,012
June 27 1,011
July 4 1,002
July 11 995
July 18 985
July 25 969
Aug. 1 962
Aug. 8 957
Aug. 15 935
Aug. 22 896
Aug. 29 803

Connect Tag Graph

For a Web 2.0 product such as Stack Overflow, if tags are applied incorrectly, and not cleaned up, then the information is not organized as well, making useful answers harder to find.

The site quality went down.

Was Stack Overflow Broken?

I don't normally search out spam to flag and destroy it, but one day I saw a few commonly posted spam posts yesterday, about a topic that most certainly does not belong here. I flagged them at the time, and they disappeared soon after, but not as quickly as it usually disappears.

More spam posts lasted longer, more flags piled up, and many review queues piled up as well. While they got quite large, the flag queues and review queues didn't overflow. Was Stack Overflow brokenb? I don't think it was broken, but it was quite a bit worse than it should have been.

Broken Stack Overflow Mug


aI haven't seen Triage go above 500, but I didn't find the reference for when it was increased to 500, just when it was a long time ago increased to 200.

bI had that mug for years, probably ever since I hit 100k on Stack Overflow. I accidentally knocked it over recently, and this was the unfortunate result.

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  • 4
    LQA queue was at 54 about two weeks ago
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 21:09
  • 6
    Tag cleanup and tag curation is indeed another rising problem. New tags for off-topic things e.g. legal are created but nobody cleans it up, some other new tags might be duplicates for existing ones, but not enough people take care for it. And wrong usage of tags, e.g. core, doesn't get corrected anymore.
    – jps
    Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 7:05
  • 2
    The close vote queue is almost as before thanks to the auto clean. So it doesn't affect because the queue already had too many item comparing to reviewers
    – Elikill58
    Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 22:07
  • 9
    If you want numbers for the mod-flag queue: Mods had worked hard over the last many months to get the flag queue down. The whole situation started on 2023-05-29, which was when the mod-private, internal policy was posted and a week prior to the strike officially starting. At that time, the SO mod flag queue was in the ballpark of 132 posts with flags (which is a bit different than flags, as a single post may have many flags, particularly if people are flagging a bunch of comments). As of now, the SO moderator flag queue is 5,132 posts with flags, which is the highest I've ever seen it.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jun 20, 2023 at 22:22
  • @Makyen You might want to update the flag count there; it's remarkable what just three weeks can do, isn't it?
    – tchrist
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 1:05
  • 3
    @tchrist True. It's currently, 2023-07-12 01:30 UTC, at 12,100 posts with flags. Machavity's answer appears to be kept semi-updated, at least more so than I'm doing here in comments.
    – Makyen Mod
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 1:28
  • 1
    "Is Stack Overflow broken?" No, it can run a long time like this. But quality is going down. Fortunately it was quite high. Unfortunately this gets lost every day the strike continues without resolution a bit more. There is so much cleaning up to do and the pile gets larger and larger. I wonder if people actually will come back to this task, or simply leave or remain where they are. Commented Jul 25, 2023 at 21:34
  • 2
    So, the LQA queue keeps growing, and I'm not even flagging anymore. Yep, low quality keeps piling up. A good indicator of why moderation is necessary. I wonder when SE Inc. will arrive at that conclusion as well, and stop stifling moderators' ability to, y'know, moderate. Commented Jul 25, 2023 at 21:45
  • 2
    rgettman, do you wanna add a plot showing the trends? i.sstatic.net/cR5uN.png I can update the plot every week (not that it is anything special), but it will make it easier to see that the numbers are on the rise. Commented Jul 25, 2023 at 22:17
  • 1
    It seems a bit complicated to draw real conclusions from queue sizes for queues that require an act of moderation to put something in the queue, a corresponding moderation act to clear something from the queue, and that have flags that age away if no-one handles them.
    – ColleenV
    Commented Aug 3, 2023 at 14:30
  • 1
    @M-- I added graphs with this week's stats.
    – rgettman
    Commented Aug 8, 2023 at 20:41
  • Thank you. Gosh, I wish we had stats for a couple of weeks before the strike. Commented Aug 8, 2023 at 20:46
  • 1
    I think an interesting table for the review queues would have been how many reviews were completed in each queue. The CV Queue, for example, refreshes its content automatically as close votes age away.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 8, 2023 at 21:18
  • 1
    @TylerH Here's my first crack at a SEDE query for completed reviews per queue per week (data is updated on Sundays): data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/1774232/…
    – rgettman
    Commented Aug 8, 2023 at 22:50
  • 1
    see also this message by Zoe in Burnination HQ saying she'll let the room freeze and explaining why: chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/56521618#56521618
    – starball
    Commented Aug 9, 2023 at 9:45
55

Surprisingly I didn't see as much spam as I would have expected as Smokey (Smoke Detector, a bot which detects spam and other garbage) is on strike too, but the spam I saw stayed a lot longer (sometimes even > 2 hours) instead of something between a few seconds to a few minutes like before.

But with most of the experienced curators and mods on strike, I see a lot more wrong handling of spam and troll posts, esp. 1 or 2 close votes after the spam/troll post was already visible for more than an hour and often double digit numbers of views. If every viewer, or at least half of the viewers would correctly flag the post as spam (or rude/abusive in case of trolling), the post would never get so many views. One of these support number spams was closed as "not about programming" by 3 users who are on SO for 3 to 13.5 years. Today a troll post was closed as "needs more focus".... That's so wrong. It was closed after 2 minutes but it took more than 24 hours until it was deleted as R/A.

Probably Smokey and the curators did such a good job before, that the average user hardly ever saw any spam and thus never had to figure out how to handle it.

Aside from that, I see a lot of posts still open with 0 to 2 close votes after days that usually would have been closed at least on the day of posting, and a lot of posts in dire need of a good edit.

Today and in the last few days I saw several cases of non-English questions that got answered before they got closed, (or even not yet closed after several hours, e.g. this). The answers are in some cases in English, but in one case it was in the same language as the question. All this might have happened before but in most cases, non-English questions have been closed in minutes without getting answers.

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  • 17
    I understand that the site has reduced the necessary threshold for automatic spam deletion from six flags to four. This probably explains a lot of what you're seeing. Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 22:52
  • 1
    The longer spam posts uptime you mention is probably the reason why I had seen more of it recently.
    – MagnusO_O
    Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 5:20
  • 2
    @KarlKnechtel ok, that would explain why I see less spam. But where did you get this from? Was it announced somewhere?
    – jps
    Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 6:55
  • 3
    @jps Message in CHQ Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 10:38
  • 1
    @KarlKnechtel: This suggests an obvious way to make mayhem. Not that I'd do it.
    – Joshua
    Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 17:53
  • 2
    I've seen spam that's lasted about 4 days. But not really obvious spam
    – DavidW
    Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 8:26
  • 2
    meta.stackexchange.com/questions/390642/… has some zesty spam from today in a screen shot.
    – tripleee
    Commented Jun 24, 2023 at 20:46
  • @tripleee Oh, yum. That’s a lot of delicious food right there. Commented Jun 28, 2023 at 2:43
  • 3
    This spam has been up nearly a month. Check the final paragraph.
    – tchrist
    Commented Jul 12, 2023 at 12:54
  • Number of spam posts that lasted for 10, 30, 60 minutes (per week).
    – Martin
    Commented Jul 19, 2023 at 15:49
  • The same number counted per month: 10, 30, 60.
    – Martin
    Commented Jul 19, 2023 at 15:49
42

I wasn't aware of the strike until today, and the last days I had started to wonder about the increased amount of obvious spam posts I was flagging (per time).

7
  • 37
    You’re more than welcome to join in. SE has banned us from featuring posts related to the strike. If you wish, you can sign the letter, and read more details in the MSE post. Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 19:36
  • 1
    "SE has banned us from..." - I've been wondering: what exactly are they supposed to be able to do about that? Commented Jun 13, 2023 at 22:50
  • 3
    @KarlKnechtel See the various initial posts about the strike across the meta sites. SE staff engaged in rollback wars with the community, repeatedly removing the tag. Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 5:26
  • 45
    They were very clear that they would not allow posts promoting the strike to be tagged [featured], and they would be removing the [featured] tag if it were added by a moderator, whether out of protest or ignorance. They've been consistent about doing so. I have to praise Philippe for, in a rare show of integrity, doing this himself, rather than sending a minion to do so and thus absorb the flak. Also, to their credit, they've allowed Meta posts about the policy to be [featured], and done nothing to prevent Meta posts about the strike from becoming and remaining Hot Meta Posts. (cc @Karl)
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 6:56
  • @CodyGray-onstrike "I have to praise Philippe for, in a rare show of integrity, doing this himself, rather than sending a minion to do so" Yeah? What about Prashanth Chandrasekar?
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 9:10
  • 1
    What about him, @Lundin? This was Philippe's decision, so he implemented it.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 9:20
  • 1
    @CodyGray-onstrike Regarding sending someone else when making announcements, policy changes, changes to the core products of the company and so on.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 9:52
40

Which kind of strangeness/deteriorations have you noticed?

  1. This question has been online for 5 days now, without any action from us.
  2. These answers look like ChatGPT answers, all by the same author (some have been online for more than a week):
    1
    2
    3
    4
    One is accepted, with a downvote.

I fall into the category of programming enthusiasts; I can help others only for easy, basic problems, and of course doing my review queues. But I didn't raise any flag, trying to give my little help to the ongoing strike. I'm now in "read-only" mode. I know that my decision will have a very little impact on SO, but I'm firmly convinced that mods did the right thing. I really love SO, and I think that mixing AI with human content is a kind of quick self-destruction.

EDIT
Another deterioration: As soon as I posted this answer, all my links were upvoted. It seems that someone does not understand the difference between using an AI and a high quality site, with verified content. That's very sad.

4
  • 9
    Even if every single person only has a small impact (and most of us only have small impacts) then together it can still add up to something big and relevant. I can only agree with this answer. Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 6:59
  • 10
    @prusswan what's the harm... -- If Stack Overflow deteriorates into a relay station for AI traffic we have a serious problem. IMO, Stack Overflow should be a site of humans talking to humans, otherwise contributing will become incredibly tiring and active expert users like me will quit. Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 9:27
  • 7
    @prusswan "what's the harm with answering chatgpt questions with chatgpt answers?" - none, if you never try to search for answers before posting a question of your own. For diligent people who search before asking the harm is evident. Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 12:34
  • 2
    Boah...!, your "online question for 5 days" is not soooooo bad, what about this one, ah-ah...!? => Online for 10 days already, I tried to flag it 9 days ago as "Blatantly Off-topic" (= "Not suited for this site"), my Flag is still 'Pending', I'm nearly surprised it's not in 'Aged away' Status yet... With some random Tags selected, and '-1' Score (my Downvote), only 21 more days to wait until it will finally get roomba'd, ah-ah...! // Oh...!?, 'Roomba' is not on strike, "I hope"...!?
    – chivracq
    Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 13:50
39

Today was literally the first time in ~4 years that I have seen an actual spam post.

I must say, while I fully support the strike, it will take a very long time until the quality of SE sinks below the alternatives. I'm still way way better served here than with a plain Google search.

One point I don't get is why the SE management even tries to go against the mods with their decision regarding the AI. I can imagine why one would disable data dumps (e.g. there's a prospective buyer for such data, and greed outweighs other reasons). But when experts across the network tell that AI-generated answers are killing the quality of the site, and mods are willingly doing their best to keep it up despite the flood, why would one actively get in their way?

18
  • 19
    Regarding your last sentence, it only makes sense if you assume that the company actually really believes that the mods are doing more harm than good. For the company it reads like: When experts across the network hallucinate AI-generated answers and suspend users they are killing the quantity of the sites, mods willingly are doing their worst and the company needs to actively stop them in order to preserve harm from innocent users answering questions. There are two very opposite stories going around here. Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 13:45
  • 6
    I think it has been clear for a long time that Corporate's goals for the site and the metrics it pays the most attention to have diverged significantly from those of most of the mods, major curators, and active answerers. With respect to AI-generated content in particular, I think Corporate genuinely cares more about even a small number of false positives than it does about the large number of true positives. Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 18:26
  • 3
    Quality is not easy to put into a KPI (thus was never a serious concern (for the company)). It is about quantity. The logic was that the reduction in number of people answering questions was due to heavy-handed handling of ChatGPT plagiarisers. Whereas using Occam's razor, it is more likely due to answerers getting FGITWed by ChatGPT plagiarisers (or just the perception or the expectation of such FGITWing). Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 18:50
  • 1
    I have seen such a case of FGITWing yesterday by chance (more or less). The ChatGPT plagiariser was the first to post. Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 18:59
  • 7
    They're legitimately pushing a tool that integrates ChatGPT-like content into the site. Can't push a tool if your mods are going to ban its output, I suppose.
    – Chris
    Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 1:40
  • 1
    @Chris-RegenerateResponse that opens up a whole set of new opportunities for everyone, welcome to the brand new field of ChatGPT consultancy
    – prusswan
    Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 7:39
  • @Chris-RegenerateResponse I see no reason to allow AI-based answers just because users can use AI to format their questions. There's no incentive for the poster to leave AI hallucinations in their question, is there? Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 12:27
  • 3
    @NoDataDumpNoContribution What I see is that ChatGPT abusers are statistically low-rep users posting well-written answers with proper formatting, and after seeing a bunch of such answer I grew very cautious towards new low-rep contributors. I'm sure this creates just the kind of friendly and welcoming atmosphere SE was striving to achieve with all the recent CoC changes. /s Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 13:33
  • 1
    @DmitryGrigoryev The company would say that low-rep users posting well-written answers with proper formatting is probably an expression of professionalization of new users and such answers should be welcomed with open arms. Without them, nobody will post answer anymore soon. Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 15:25
  • 1
    Maybe because the actual users, not the moderators, are on the side of SE management on this: most software developers now use ChatGPT4, so it's a trend one cannot stop. It's either that, or questions on SE never getting answered & traffic to SE dropping further... Commented Jun 17, 2023 at 14:35
  • 8
    ^ Well that's a load of BS.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jun 17, 2023 at 14:55
  • 3
    @TomWenseleers: What Cerbrus said.
    – Ken White
    Commented Jun 17, 2023 at 22:46
  • 5
    @TomWenseleers Indeed "getting more traffic" and "getting quality answers" are two different goals, perhaps even contradicting ones. I for one would not want ChatGPT answers on my questions, I can get these myself. Commented Jun 19, 2023 at 10:52
  • 1
    @DmitryGrigoryev Of course - don't mean users should just start copying & pasting plain ChatGPT responses (that should be banned)-what I mean is that VERIFIED ChatGPT answers, with extra effort put in (adding authoritative sources, benchmarks, correct output, etc), should be allowed. Stuff along the lines of stackoverflow.com/questions/48119360/…, which now gets deleted if it mentions that part of the code came out of ChatGPT4. Unless policy is that ChatGPT4 can be used as inspiration but can't be mentioned. Commented Jun 19, 2023 at 11:09
  • 1
    @DmitryGrigoryev This was my long rant about it. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/387575/… But no, I don't expect that any of you would agree or would upvote an answer like that... Commented Jun 19, 2023 at 11:10
33

Less editing means more dirty posts

Some of the striking curators would often handle general clean-up of posts to remove greetings, rants, and other kinds of fluff as they arrived. It's been 23 days since the strike, so we can probably grasp some changes in the amount of fluff in recent posts by now. For this quick experiment, we'll consider search pages of size 50 and time ranges with 23 days:

  • after the strike: 2023-06-05 to 2023-06-28,
  • before the strike: 2023-05-13 to 2023-06-04

"Thanks in advance"

As of 2023-06-28 around 12:00 UTC, searching for the Newest posts with the query Thanks in advance resulted in 63 full pages. Page 64 would feature posts from both Jun 5 and Jun 4, so it was discarded in these calculations.

Going further down the search pages for posts between 2023-05-13 and 2023-06-04, page 112 featured posts from both May 13 and May 12. So we have around 112 - 64 = 46 full pages.

This represents an increased rate of unedited posts by 37% relative to the time just before the strike.

"Hope this helps"

Doing the same experiment with the query hope this helps, we get 43 full pages (almost 44) of posts since the beginning of the strike.

In the interval of same length between 2023-05-13 and 2023-06-04: 79 - 44 = 35 full pages.

This represents roughly an increased rate of unedited posts by 23%.

Rude comments stay for longer

Remember one of the things that make Stack Overflow feel unwelcoming? These forms of code of conduct violations (and many others) may stay visible on the site for longer. Persistent troublemakers may also have more time to cause harm before they are suspended.

A few samples of comments still visible at the time of writing:

F*ck to all down voters. At least provide the reason for down vote.
posted 2023-06-23 08:09:41

someone is so ignorant and thinks of himself as he knows everything and considers this question stupid, thus down voted my question and its answers.
posted 2023-06-21 10:46:16

SO sucks, this question is great and it got downvoted. What a toxic toxic community..
posted 2023-06-14 14:13:56

What insecure and salty person down-voted this? Seems we have rampant hateful down-voting on SO these days.
posted 2023-06-14 22:11:35

This answer is tested. Don't know which idiot downvoted it.
posted 2023-06-09 16:32:17

Naturally, any example that I place here may end up being deleted quickly now, due to the Meta effect.

There will also be more meta-commentary in general, making questions harder to navigate through and leaving more room for heated quarrels and rude comments. These may well be some of the worst times to interact with someone on Stack Overflow, as stories such as these may well repeat themselves more easily.

Non answers staying visible

Other posts in this Meta question have brought up the problem that so many low quality questions are being upvoted and answered, further diluting and making this repository less useful bit by bit. But sometimes it's even worse than that: answers which do not answer the question at all, such as a rant from the OP, are not deleted in a timely fashion, and are sometimes even marked as accepted. Here is an example from Jun 13 at 13:46, still visible at the time of writing. This means that any visitor who has the same problem and finds this question (which claims to hold an accepted answer) will be met with betrayal. Some people are petty indeed, and these levels of pettiness make things worse for everyone, but at least we can clean up after the fact, for as long as moderation continues.

Each number tells its story

It might also help shed some light to show an example of a curator's flagging patterns. In the same time interval from above, from before the strike, I cast more than 480 helpful comment flags. At least 50 of them are still in review. Experience tells me that the number of flags I would have raised would not have gone far from this. Multiply the difference by all the other users who would have flagged comments regularly and you get a hefty amount of flags that would have piled up on the already large numbers hinted by moderators.

Most of the effects are long term anyway

In any case, the lack of proper moderation creates a lingering effect that is hard to measure with small pieces of evidence. By the time it had its effect, we'll probably have much less interest in the site in general.

2
  • 4
    4 hours later and the comments are still up! 🎉
    – GammaGames
    Commented Jun 28, 2023 at 20:17
  • 4
    Comments now flagged and deleted.
    – Dharman Mod
    Commented Jun 29, 2023 at 9:28
22

Regular spam questions on SE Meta:

enter image description here (1st and 3rd in that screenshot, obviously)

These questions now tend to survive for 5-15 minutes, depending on time of day. Normally, these questions would barely even pop up on the frontpage, due to Charcoal catching them quickly.

The contents are also ironic: A paragraph or 2 of AI-generated text followed by a link.

2
  • 11
    Meta SE still has an active moderator, and (believe it or not), that isn't a lot of spam. Academia SE (with all its mods on strike) had a spam wave the other day. They posted until every question on the home page was spam and then started answering some. Multiple spammers had 10–15 posts and some were over an hour old, to the point where there were several users who were flagging who ran out of flags.
    – Laurel
    Commented Jul 10, 2023 at 11:24
  • 1
    @Laurel and I'd assume there's also users still manually flagging spam. That example on Academia is, frankly, impressive xD
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jul 10, 2023 at 11:33
8

I just saw this post, and thought I might add to it.

As a regular user with not much rep, I'm not able to contribute to the review queues, so I'm not aware of changes in those stats.

However, I was a decent flagger before the strike. Of the flags I raised before the strike, I have seen a drastic decrease in the flag-handling - before the strike, any flags I raised would be handled within 24 hours (most even within a few hours). As of now, the flags I have raised are gradually aging away.

Even though the posts those flags were raised on are low-quality, they are remaining open and visible, in contrast to pre-strike when such content would be gone within a day.

Voting has also drastically decreased (which could also be because of the new voting button design):

enter image description here

3
  • 7
    While voting may have gone down with the strike, I'm not sure that your screenshot is really enough to back up this claim, since none of these questions have more than a handful of views.
    – Dada
    Commented Jul 5, 2023 at 7:44
  • 8
    It's unsurprising that flags are starting to age away. Within a few hours there will be 10,000 pending flags (up from 78 in mid-May).
    – Andy Mod
    Commented Jul 5, 2023 at 12:48
  • 1
    Not very clear what your Screenshot is about, with all Qt's with [2-4] Views, and "how" you flagged them... // Absolutely all Qt's I ever flagged before the Strike (as anything (Duplicate/Blatant Off-Topic/Low Qlt/whatever)) have always aged away, I don't see much change with the Strike... (But I just monitor a "small" Tag..., for which 'Roomba' is much more efficient than flagging...)
    – chivracq
    Commented Jul 7, 2023 at 3:11
5

It's an indirect effect, since moderation on Area 51 is done entirely by SE, but I've noticed that rules-violating proposals are sticking around much longer. Instead of being closed within a day for "lack of community" or "being about web3", these proposals are lasting long enough to run into one of the automatic deadlines.

4
  • 6
    Well, that is unfortunate (but thanks for sharing anyway). I doubt this is related to the strike, though. My guess would be more that this is because staff is no longer interested in Area 51 and thus no longer paying much attention.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 11, 2023 at 5:38
  • 2
    @CodyGray-onstrike, right up until the strike started, things like the "Move" proposal were being closed almost immediately, with an appropriate message. I'm guessing that whoever was keeping an eye on things got re-tasked to try to keep StackOverflow from going too far out of control.
    – Mark
    Commented Jul 11, 2023 at 23:41
  • What is "web3", and why are proposed sites not allowed to be about that? Commented Jun 5 at 6:39
  • 1
    @KarlKnechtel blockchain, cryptocurrency, etc. related technologies. See relevant discussion here: area51.meta.stackexchange.com/questions/32746/… Commented Jun 5 at 6:43
-42

There is so much content/depth on SO, that even if it goes into read-only indefinitely, it can still be useful for years to come. Can't say the same for other SEs

I mainly come in from search engine results, if Google does not take it upon itself to moderate the interwebz, I don't see why SE volunteers need to be so hard on themselves. The queues and flags never bothered me, so I expect the same for everyone else.

Not that I stand for or against the strike, but I noted my usage patterns already fulfill 4 out of 5 strike criteria for normal users, as I very rarely interfere with the content (unless it is so bad that I felt the need to participate):

Even if you are not a moderator you can participate in the strike by:

Not voting on posts
Not submitting edits
Not reviewing in the review queues
Not commenting
Not flagging posts
9
  • 41
    Perhaps you don't realize that finding mostly relevant content on SO (with Google or otherwise) is possible exactly because SE volunteers have been "hard on themselves", spending their time on removing noise and banning users who only post noise. Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 12:39
  • @DmitryGrigoryev the search engine also needs to be able to rank content ahead of junk, if SO quality drop enough it will simply be replaced by better content. I don't particular rely on any single site for knowledge
    – prusswan
    Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 12:52
  • 14
    Perhaps 2022: a year in moderation might help to give a big picture of community moderation...
    – Andrew T.
    Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 13:11
  • 8
    @prusswan That is true, however, search engine ranking is only useful if you search for something popular, like "string length in python". If you search for an arcane linker error message from a seldom-used library, then "relevant" becomes very different from "popular". Google will feed you with pages and pages of common linker errors before you see anything remotely useful. Commented Jun 16, 2023 at 13:52
  • 1
    @DmitryGrigoryev but SO is also best for popular stuff only, as my attention shifted to more unusual/rare topics over time there is no guarantee I can find what I need on SO, sometimes just with a very low vote which is hardly an actual reflection of usefulness. For linker errors, maybe back to the MSDN forums, Github issues (if library/repo related) or any other credible C++/C# forums. Or even a site dedicated to linker errors
    – prusswan
    Commented Jun 17, 2023 at 4:29
  • @DmitryGrigoryev rather than relying on SO, I put my faith in people behind the content
    – prusswan
    Commented Jun 17, 2023 at 4:30
  • I ask some people about this recently. See chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/92764?m=56410885#56410885 .
    – user202729
    Commented Jun 24, 2023 at 0:44
  • 6
    @prusswan Yeah, and why do you think you can’t find useful stuff on SO? Because we’re being overrun with trash. Commented Jun 28, 2023 at 13:07
  • 1
    @prusswan The curators I know of would rather vote to delete your question, if it’s pointlessly bad, and serves no purpose on SO. I’m happy they discovered some garbage of mine that the site didn’t let me delete, because people had posted answers. Commented Jul 9, 2023 at 17:28
-77

I haven't noticed any increase in spam. What I am seeing is questions that need improvement remaining open long enough to be clarified and answered. The site is actually welcoming to new users for the first time in years. I'd prefer it if the moderators remained on strike forever.

36
  • 11
    Downvotes on meta are a badge of honor. Commented Jun 14, 2023 at 22:16
  • 30
    Closed questions can also be clarified and edited which will bring them to the Reopen Queue. If they are properly improved they will be reopened and can be answered. The only consequence of strike will be more garbage and useless posts that will make this place less useful for anyone looking for solutions. You cannot easily find diamonds in a swamp.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 8:45
  • 7
    Be careful what you wish for, as it might just come true... looking at my own reps history, it's the "new users", not mods, who should be kept in read-only mode for the first year or two
    – mirekphd
    Commented Jun 15, 2023 at 16:57
  • 7
    Care to share examples of questions that "stayed open long enough to be clarified and answered"? Then I will show you example of reopened questions... it's easy to point fingers, make baseless claims, and undermine the great job that curators (moderator or not) have done to give you the site that you are now enjoying. But data will debunk those claims. Commented Jun 18, 2023 at 5:18
  • 7
    @KevinKrumwiede That's one of the reasons we're striking. We've been asking for better curation tools for a long time, but we're constantly neglected. Commented Jun 20, 2023 at 16:34
  • 14
    So you're asking us to waste a ton of valuable curation time by simply ignoring bad content when we see it? What a totally, insanely ineffective way to curate a knowledge base. ;) Commented Jun 20, 2023 at 16:47
  • 10
    Again, would you provide evidence for your claims? I am striking so I am not happy with the state of things, but considering SO a joke?!! I don't know of a serious developer who has not used SO at some point in their career. I am still waiting for the examples btw. And your suggestion for leaving bad content up is what we see with many other "forums" which are cluttered with garbage and are no use (yet I don't think of those as a joke neither). Commented Jun 20, 2023 at 16:53
  • 13
    p.s. Downvotes are not a badge of honor, but an indication that your idea is not very popular. Let's be realistic and make claims and suggestions that can be backed up by logic and/or data. Commented Jun 20, 2023 at 16:53
  • 7
    @AndreasdetestsAIhype already informed you about shortcomings of your source, but to give you an equivalent example... Yankees sucks, Sox rules (source: I have been polling my college friends for 10 years). Commented Jun 20, 2023 at 19:34
  • 23
    "Bad content doesn't affect anything" Sure, until you search for a problem you're having and find a bunch of people who mostly had some unrelated problem but described it badly, or a bunch of unanswered duplicate copies of the question with no links to the actual answer. Do you know why that mostly doesn't happen? (hint: it's because of curation)
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Jun 21, 2023 at 0:38
  • 17
    I recently went through dozens of questions about a particular error message and removed unhelpful ones, marked duplicates as duplicates, etc. You can now actually find the answer without trawling through ten pages of search results.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Jun 21, 2023 at 0:39
  • 17
    Again, please provide evidence for these claims. If you believe specific questions are incorrectly closed, you could bring them up for discussion on meta.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Jun 21, 2023 at 1:13
  • 12
    It seems like you just wish for this platform to be something different than what it was intended for. I'm sure there's lots of other sites that can fulfill that exact purpose. There's no need for SO to also do so. Commented Jun 21, 2023 at 1:39
  • 10
    "I haven't noticed any increase in spam." - You are not paying attention.. I am seeing multiple spam posts from the same user, submitting half a dozen answers to those questions, and they are not being deleted for hours sometimes. " I maintain, as I have for years, that nothing should ever be closed or removed." - This is short sighted, if nothing is closed or removed, that would include spam and we would be worse the Quroa or Yahoo Answers. Commented Jun 28, 2023 at 19:38
  • 8
    @KevinKrumwiede - 100% of the AI generated content I have seen has been complete garbage. I am not going anywhere, my downvotes on legitimate garbage content, will continue Commented Jul 1, 2023 at 18:29

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