-30

On my post here, the first comment by [deleted] suggested the post was a duplicate. I then responded why I think my post is not a duplicate.

[deleted]: duplicate of Can't ping user because two users have the same username

mbang: @[deleted] I don't think the situation is as hopeless as duplicate names.

Later, [deleted]'s comment was removed when the post was closed, and a moderator deleted my response. I don't know the reason, but I assume the moderator determined my comment was No Longer Needed. However, my comment does not violate any rules and clarified the OP for all other users.

If the comment was instead

mbang: I don't think the situation is as hopeless as duplicate names.

I assume it would have stayed up. I don't want my future replies to be deleted willy-nilly, so I am proposing a moderation guideline: Replies that are useful as stand-alone comments should not be marked No Longer Needed.

1
  • 9
    Fwiw, the duplicate suggestion comments are automatically deleted when the post is closed as a duplicate of said post. I didn't remove my comment, because I stand by it. It was removed automatically. I also wouldn't consider your response "useful". Commented Oct 9, 2022 at 13:35

2 Answers 2

23

Comments that are "no longer needed" are not deleted because they violate any rules (indeed, most of them don't violate any rules or have anything at all wrong with them); they're deleted because they're no longer needed. Your comment added no useful information that I could see, and it was a reply to an already-deleted comment, which serves no purpose. I don't understand how it could be useful as a stand-alone comment. Its only meaning was in the context of your opinion that your question is/was not a duplicate of the one that was proposed. If you want to explain why you think your question is not a duplicate, the appropriate way to do that is by editing the explanation into the question, not by posting comments.

14
  • "editing the explanation into the question" No one reads long OPs. If it is obvious why the OP is different from the suggested duplicate, then explaining that in the OP is just noise.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 9, 2022 at 14:00
  • 12
    @mbang If it were obvious then I wouldn't have voted to close your post as a duplicate, and would've voted to reopen it by now, so clearly it's not as obvious as you seem to think. Commented Oct 9, 2022 at 14:01
  • @NickstandswithUkraine well it is less obvious now with my 11-word comment deleted.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 9, 2022 at 14:02
  • 12
    @mbang Your comment did nothing to explain why your post isn't a duplicate, as is explained in this answer, let alone make it obvious. Peter's comment at least tried, although I disagreed with him. Commented Oct 9, 2022 at 14:06
  • @NickstandswithUkraine "Your comment did nothing to explain why your post isn't a duplicate" The only thing the comment did was explain why the OP wasn't a duplicate, and other users upvoted the comment as useful.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 9, 2022 at 14:15
  • 11
    I can assure you that there are a lot fewer people who read all the comments than there are who read posts. Also, I think "long OPs" is a huge stretch when your entire justification for why the question was not a duplicate was 11 words long: an extra 11 words is hardly going to make the post too long for anyone to read. And, yeah, as already noted by Nick, it is far from "obvious" why what you said is true, given that multiple people have disagreed with it. Besides, if it was so "obvious" why is a comment needed to state the obvious? These arguments seem contradictory.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Oct 9, 2022 at 14:31
  • @CodyGray At the time the comment was deleted, it was an 11-word first comment. "I assure you" more people read that comment than the full OP.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 9, 2022 at 14:50
  • Re "No one reads long OPs": That may suggest it would be placed at the very beginning and obnoxiously formatted with <H1> (#) just because it was newer. The location / structure should be dictated by the relative importance, not by how new it is. Commented Oct 9, 2022 at 15:20
  • @PeterMortensen I'm not sure what you are talking about. The comment in question is based on my naive assumptions about how stackoverflow is implemented, so I view it as secondary to the OP. If any reader has a hand in running the website, they don't need my musings about what is hard or easy.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 1:07
  • @PeterMortensen When I say more people read my comment than the OP, I am stating a fact about how people read on the internet. "I don't think the situation is as hopeless as duplicate names." was a comment to get readers to read the OP, not to get readers to read the comment.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 1:07
  • 2
    @mbang "When I say more people read my comment than the OP, I am stating a fact about how people read on the internet." - Interesting "fact", have you got a source for that? Or is this another thing that's simply "obvious"? And re: "The reason given for deletion was that dupe-voters didn't find it a satisfactory answer to their dupe question" - That's evidently not the reason given, which is that your comment wasn't useful at explaining what made your post not a duplicate, and if it were, it should've been an edit anyway. Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 9:24
  • 1
    In addition, there was no "dupe question", the automatically generated comment being in a question format by no means means I was expecting a response, and indeed I do not want a response unless it's going to provide a good reason for the post not to be closed. Even if you do have a good reason, I'm likely to ignore it if you leave it in the comments, people don't read comments and it should be in the post. Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 9:25
  • me: "The reason given for deletion was that dupe-voters didn't find it a satisfactory answer to their dupe question" you: "That's evidently not the reason given, which is that your comment wasn't useful at explaining what made your post not a duplicate" You contradict yourself.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 10:23
  • 3
    @mbang No, you simply misunderstand. "wasn't useful at explaining" was just being polite. Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 10:34
9

If the comment was instead

First of all, let's clear a misconception: there is no such thing on the network as replies to a comment. "@-mentions" exist to provide notifications for the intended person, not as a way to construct conversations. From the official Tour: "It's not a discussion forum. There's no chit-chat". No matter the form, the comment would've been assessed on its own merit and surrounding context.

I think it could stand alone

No, it could not. Your deleted comment only states that the situation is different than what the duplicate target suggests. On its own, it does not contain any useful information for a reader, especially on a site such as Stack Overflow where most readers are tech-savvy: we need to know the why.

If the comment contained the reasoning behind why the situation is different, it could stand alone. However, even that doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been eventually deleted — please do not forget that comments here are second-class citizens and can be deleted at any time.

8
  • "there is no such thing on the network as replies to a comment." That's what it's called, a reply. Comment replies are additional comments with '@username' at the start. If you don't like my use of the word, feel free to edit the OP.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 0:23
  • "Your deleted comment only states that the situation is different than what the duplicate target suggests." No, my comment states that the situation is different because the problem (Peter vs. Peter Cordes) can be solved without solving the duplicate name issue. It's only 11 words; you can reread it. Tech-savvy stackoverflow users should be able to fill in the details, which Peter Cordes did. If you didn't see how the situation could be solved without solving the duplicate name issue, deleting my comment doesn't move the conversation along. Maybe ask for clarification?
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 0:30
  • "No matter the form, the comment would've been assessed on its own merit and surrounding context." I don't think it was. It was clarifying. It was upvoted. It was a comment by me, the original poster. The reason given for deletion was that dupe-voters didn't find it a satisfactory answer to their dupe question.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 0:55
  • No issue with your usage of the word. Merely a reminder that comment replies (or @-mentions) do not exist to facilitate discussion (in fact, there is an automatic system in place that triggers when users repeatedly mention each other that suggests moving to chat) but are a means of notifying other users of clarifications.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 12:31
  • As for the usefulness of the comment: this is an example of a comment that can stand on its own - it contains useful information for the reader with a detailed explanation, a statement that the situation seems to be different requires further elaboration. Once again, the important part is that the comment section is not for free-form discussions - if such a discussion is needed, there is always an option to move to chat.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 12:34
  • "a statement that the situation seems to be different requires further elaboration" Again, that's not what I said. I said that the problem could be solved without solving the duplicate name issue. You may not see why that is true, but if you accept it to be a true statement it is an extremely clear explanation for why my OP was not a duplicate.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 12:42
  • Second, the OP is about the statement "Replies that are useful as stand-alone comments should not be marked No Longer Needed." Someone else changed the title. You disagree that my comment can stand alone, but don't you agree that the two versions of the comment, "@[deleted] I don't think the situation..." and "I don't think the situation..." should be treated the same? If you do, that is what this post is about, and I don't see any clear moderation guidelines stating that these comments should be treated the same.
    – mbang
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 12:48
  • 3
    I am sorry, but I do not understand what you mean. Whether or not a comment contains a reply (@-mention) is irrelevant to comment removal. Neither version is eligible to stand alone - neither adds any explanation as to why the situation is different.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Oct 10, 2022 at 13:05

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .