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I've had votes reversed in the past, no big deal, but it was always a few here or there. I understand that it happens. It's never ever happened like this though.

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Is this a case where some user has, over a very long time, voted on a lot of my content? If this is the case why wasn't it caught and rectified earlier?


Ok, things have cooled a bit and I see others have also been affected. 1.6K is only 160 votes, but still, it would take some time for a single person to distribute 160 "extra" votes. So are we talking about a voting ring or similar? What's the benefit of contributing seemingly random votes?

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    @SuperStormer IMO not really a duplicate of that post since I'm asking why it may've taken, presumably, a long time to happen, not what can I do about it. I understand there's not much I can do since this is how the system is designed to work.
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 0:04
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    probably linked to the -300 I also got as "voting corrected". Maybe a big cartel of suspicious accounts was discovered recently. Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 0:14
  • @TemaniAfif Right, after reading through some of the comments on the dupe SuperStormer suggested I think the posts are related. It looks like a large site-wide crackdown happened.
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 0:16
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    One of What should / can / may I do when losing reputation points due to serial voting and this post should be closed as a duplicate of the other, since they're presumably related to the same large scale voting reversal event. Both are asking "what happened" so I don't see any point in there being 2 separate questions.
    – cigien
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 0:43
  • There was a post about a big voting correction event due to a large sockpuppets network about a year ago but I can't for the life of me find it. Many users also "lost" thousands of rep points at the time. Does anyone remember this event or have a link to that post?
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 1:08
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    @41686d6564standsw.Palestine Are you referring to this one: Massive serial voting reversal has occurred? The roomba got to it.
    – cigien
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 1:15
  • @cigien YES, that's it. Thank you! I was going to use it as a dup-target for these two posts but it's already deleted. Perhaps they should be closed as a duplicate of this as was the case with the one that got deleted?
    – 41686d6564
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 2:27
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    So.... basically over some longer timeframe than the normal script runs to detect serial-voting, an investigation was done and some other non-serial votes were deemed fraudulent and a lot of us are victims of circumstance. Note, none of the suggested or discussed posts are IMO suitable dupe targets as I'm specifically asking why wasn't the serial voting detected earlier. It's clear why the votes were reversed.
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 3:23
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    I didn't get any votes reversed. Why am I not getting a fair share of the dodgy upvotes? Is there somewhere I have to register to get the socks/rings/scripts to send me votes? :) Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 3:23
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    @MartinJames haha, if I only knew where you sign you up.
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 3:24
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    @cigien No offense. Just some considerations! If you look at things from a distance a lot of questions here are duplicates. The closer you get, things get clearer from obscure. A duplicate is clearly defined. It is a duplicate of something without a range of interpretation. For example 5 is a duplicate of 5. 6 is not a duplicate of 5. But some could say 6 is 5+1 and therefore is a duplicate. For these two questions 1. <meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/419980/…> and ... to be continued ...
    – TarJae
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 7:15
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    2. <meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/419983/…>. The first one asks what can I do, the second one asks why did it take a long time to occur. Yesterday I searched more the 3 hours everything to get an answer and also provided some posts as links in my question. I at least was not able to find a sufficient existing answer!
    – TarJae
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 7:15
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    "If this is the case why wasn't it caught and rectified earlier?" -- in my business, the person who asks this is usually assigned to chair the committee that is responsible for the work for fixing the problem. Good luck ;) Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 10:51
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    You should at least get the galea badge (as opposed to the mortarboard badge). Get the maximum negative reputation of the day on SO. Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 12:26

1 Answer 1

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Is this a case where some user has, over a very long time, voted on a lot of my content?

Yes. Specifically, it appears that the user was targeting posts from particular users for voting and other actions. To be clear: we have no reason to believe you did anything wrong here.

If this is the case why wasn't it caught and rectified earlier?

The user who cast these votes has deliberately taken steps to evade automated serial voting detection (I'm being deliberately vague here to avoid giving advice on how to do this) and to cast doubt on whether their voting was indeed targeted. In fact, a smaller number of their votes to you were previously reversed, but they've since experimented and learned how to avoid automated reversals (despite warnings from moderators not to target votes in this manner).

Eventually, a moderator investigating a serial-voting flag found sufficient evidence that the warnings were not being heeded and that the user's voting, as a whole, was not organic. They escalated to the Community Management team, who can see individual votes. A community manager investigated the details of the voting and concluded that this user's voting was indeed targeted, then performed a bulk invalidation of a large portion of the user's votes.

We apologize for this taking long enough for it to build up to this level, and we recognize that it can feel like an undeserved kick in the teeth. You were one of ~8 users who received at least 100 of the votes reversed in this action.

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    Yeah, it was certainly a big "oof". I also wasn't concerned if I had done anything wrong because if I had I wouldn't be finding out about via a mysterious loss in rep. I was mostly just very surprised by the volume of it. Any ideas at all what possibly made my posts targets, other than chance?
    – Drew Reese
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 3:30
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    So, if I am reading the correctly, the user in question was going to some significant lengths to hide up votes? I know nobody can or should reveal details here, but I can't help being curious about a user's motivations. Why go through this trouble to increase someone else's rep?
    – Mark
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 3:34
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    @Mark yes the users aim is to hide upvotes, but not just all upvotes (which are hidden from normal users anyway) but ones where they voted on their actual target who they wanted to increase the reputation of. Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 4:29
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    I guess I'm one of the 8, got -2850 of rep ;) I can't understand why someone would give me 285 dummy votes. Also, I often have +0 votes above the 200 cap, are those taken into account in the calculation (might this mean that there are even more than 285 dummy votes?). Was this a single user or multiple accounts?
    – mozway
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 8:12
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    My belief (without having seen the individual votes as the CM did) is that the user was misguided rather than trying to hide a "real" vote target. Think of the people who "thank" people for an answer by voting up a bunch of the other posts from their profile (not quite what was happening here, but a very similar end result). I'm also a bit constrained by trying to describe this in a way that wouldn't allow someone to work out who the user was.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 8:21
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    @mozway it does take that into account, but the reputation history page UI is, arguably, broken. 289 votes to your account were reversed. 285 of those were on non-deleted posts. However, despite what's shown there, your reputation dropped from 102982 to 101594 as a result of the recalculation, a drop of only 1388. Drew's actual reputation drop, similarly, was only 1258.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 8:25
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    Thanks for the info, It's a bit of a relief if this was in fact more of a misguided than malicious voting, but still, that's a lot of votes (yeah, I have a fan!). How do you make the difference with a user that likes a particular topic, "follows" some of the top users and votes on them often (I have had a few times users telling me they liked my answers and were "studying" them)?
    – mozway
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 8:32
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    @mozway that difficulty is part of why it took so long...we wanted to be sure there was a problem before reversing anything. The short answer is: CMs look through voting and other logs to build up a more complete picture of how the voting occurred, and then apply their human judgement. That said, "following" someone to vote on their posts can be problematic, because it means that their answers are getting an unfair advantage over users that don't have followers. But it's tricky to differentiate between that and closely following a tag in which you post a lot...that's where the CMs come in.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 8:39
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    @DavidG We've done that in at least one case, though it sort of awkwardly backfired when it turned out that what we thought was going to be a ~1.5k rep loss ended up being...20 rep. They'd hit the rep cap a lot, and our tooling doesn't know how much it'll be in advance. That said, that's a good point, and something we can definitely consider doing (maybe immediately after the recalc, once we know the size of the drop).
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 8:43
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    Ugh. So effectively this is Stack Overflow simping. I can't put a nicer description to it, that is the 21st century definition of what is happening here. Why can't people contain themselves. It's one thing to want to attach to a mentor, it's another to want to shower them with gifts. Way over the line, and thus... a ban offence, IMO. You can't shake people out of that state of mind without a shock.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 9:31
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    @Nick "why not all of them?" The CM handling the escalation made a judgement call as to the best way to separate the targeted votes from the non-targeted votes, in order to limit the disruption caused. "Why was the user account not deleted for such a gross violation of SO guidelines?" We do not generally delete user accounts unless virtually everything they've contributed is in violation of the rules. Even the worst repeat offenders are indefinitely suspended rather than having their accounts deleted.
    – Ryan M Mod
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 12:32
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    @chivracq I would suspect a detection like that would get ignore due to all the false positives. I hang out in mostly a single tag where a majority of the questions are answered by a few people, I upvote answer accordingly, most of my up votes have likely gone to 3-4 people in the lua tag.
    – Nifim
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 16:42
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    Come on, everyone knows the trick to avoid detection is rubbing your belly and patting your head while walking in a clockwise circle under a waxing gibbous moon. It's not that secret.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 17:57
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    @chivracq There are certainly multiple users I cross paths with a lot whose content I have updated, probably in the hundreds of times in total. The system should not consider that voting fraudulent, because it's not; each vote was cast on the content independent of anything else, which is Ryan's point. It necessarily takes a human to discern where apparently legitimate voting constitutes fraud.
    – TylerH
    Commented Aug 23, 2022 at 18:00
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    @TheMaster Pretty confident. Community managers have gotten pretty good of late at noting patterns and it didn't take them long to find this one. No invalidations are done lightly, but we all take voting fraud very seriously as well. It's unfortunate it happens, but I would say a significant chunk of users get hit by a reversal now and then. The only difference here was the size.
    – Machavity Mod
    Commented Aug 25, 2022 at 20:10

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