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Some time ago I encountered this answer to the question Type of regex used by Sublime Text 3?

I flagged it as NAA and it was disputed. I then raised a mod flag and it was declined. My claim is that this answer is basically an NAA and I want to understand if I'm the only one who thinks that or maybe I just didn't explain myself well enough in the custom flag.

I think a summary of the timeline will help:

  • Feb 11 '16 - the question was asked "What regex sublime 3 uses?"
  • Feb 12 '16 - answer posted "It uses PCRE"
  • Dec 1 '17 - answer posted (the one referenced here) "Weird, on regex101 with PCRE a pattern works but not in sublime"

With time this answer got 3 upvotes and on "trending" sort it is actually first. I really don't see how it even attempts to answer the question. The question is "what regex engine ST3 uses?" and the answer basically says "It doesn't look to be PCRE". Not exactly an answer. If anything, it is a new question or maybe a comment on the first answer could also work.

So please, am I the only one thinking that?


For completeness, this is the exact custom flag I raised:

"I have a disputed NAA flag on this but I truly believe this is not an answer. If anything, this is a new question by itself. It shows that a certain pattern works under PCRE in regex101, but not in sublime (which is most likely meant as a comment to MattDMo's answer claiming that ST3 uses PCRE. Also, the simple problem is that $1 doesn't work because that are numbers following. Like I said, if anything this should be a question. It doesn't answer what regex engine ST3 is using"

It was declined with the standard "Flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer. You should downvote such answers"

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  • 8
    It reads like an answer to me. They ask the OP to try the solution they provide in "ST3" (presumably Sublime Text 3). It might not be an answer relevant to the question, but it's still an answer to something. So it's likely "an altogether wrong answer"; which as the flag decline reason states, is a reason to downvote, not flag.
    – Thom A
    Aug 22, 2022 at 7:55
  • 2
    When you get a declined NAA flag, you also get the explanation "declined - flags should not be used to indicate technical inaccuracies, or an altogether wrong answer".
    – klutt
    Aug 22, 2022 at 9:10
  • 6
    @klutt I don't see what this has to do with technical inaccuracies or right/wrong. To me this is simply NAA, as in not answering (any) question. It obviously addresses something from another answer without clear reference, and raises a doubt/question about it. As I said, this is another question ("How come this pattern works in regex101 but not in sublime?") or a comment on the other answer
    – Tomerikoo
    Aug 22, 2022 at 10:09
  • 3
    @Larnu There is no solution being provided in that answer. The question is simply what regex engine is used in sublime. The answer provides a pattern that presumably works in regex101 under PCRE but not in sublime. It basically raises another question that should either be asked separately or as a comment under the answer claiming that sublime uses PCRE
    – Tomerikoo
    Aug 22, 2022 at 10:15
  • 3
    It's not a solution to the question, that doesn't make it not an answer, @Tomerikoo . The 2 are not synonyms. I could, if I wanted, go to a Javascript question asking how to work out Pi to 10 decimal places and post an answer about how to create a CSV file in Powershell and import it into SQL Server and it would still be an answer; it's just "an altogether wrong answer".
    – Thom A
    Aug 22, 2022 at 10:21
  • 2
    FWIW, I have now addressed the issue raised by this answer (the one under discussion) in my own answer.
    – MattDMo
    Aug 22, 2022 at 12:46
  • 3
    I can say one thing about the NAA flag: it is popular to use it to try and nuke what you don't like the look of. Yet when it is brought up for discussion on meta, it really only ends up in dispute because the usage of the NAA flag was and remains a little ambiguous. You correctly reference the fact that this is how you see things, and how you think, because you are right to treat this with care. IMO rather than using the NAA flag to try and delete things, we should reason why answers should be kept first instead. Be good scientists. If we can't think of anything, then probably NAA applies.
    – Gimby
    Aug 22, 2022 at 12:48
  • 5
    In my experience, for the NAA flag to not be declined is for the "answer" to be so blatantly not an answer that it's obvious to anyone (an obviously difficult bar to reach). If there's so much as a whiff of "attempt to answer", no matter how bad or off the mark, and it doesn't fall under any of the other categories like spam, it's still an answer. Vote accordingly on content quality.
    – Drew Reese
    Aug 22, 2022 at 19:29
  • 1
    @Larnu I don't think they are synonyms. I just don't think this is "an altogether wrong answer". It is simply not an answer. The text of the answer is "On regex101.com with it set to pcre, I have a substitution that works perfectly. Yet in sublime text 3, it does not". Even without any context, how is that not a question? Like I said, it's not about right/wrong, it is not an attempt to answer anything...
    – Tomerikoo
    Aug 23, 2022 at 5:27
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    @Tomerikoo The text "On regex101.com with it set to pcre, I have a substitution that works perfectly. Yet in sublime text 3, it does not" is clearly a statement, there are zero interrogative words. Don't forget the rest of the answer, the second half, where they say "try the following on the site and in ST3" and provide a code example. This all seems like a very logical attempt at an answer to me. Completely terrible and incorrect answers are still, by definition, answers.
    – Drew Reese
    Aug 23, 2022 at 7:36
  • 1
    Wrong answers are still answers. NAA flags are reserved for stuff like "What regex does Sublime uses?" Answer: "Ditch sublime text it sucks! Use notepad instead!". So stuff that does not even attempt at addressing the question"
    – GACy20
    Aug 23, 2022 at 9:32
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    When I read this, it looks much like "Hey the other answer says it is PCRE, but look at this example! It is PCRE and it doesn't work in Sublime!?" Then in a comment to their own answer, they found out a solution to this. This answer should be deleted as it should be posted as a new question if anything. It fits with "this was posted as an answer, but it does not attempt to answer the question". So I would also have flagged this as NAA. If this is wrong, then I am apparently (after all these years) still missing the point and this description of the flag is not reflecting what it is for.
    – trincot
    Aug 23, 2022 at 10:59
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    it's not an answer for sure, the poster express is doubt about the answer above, it's more like a comment. But it's 6 years old i think we can move on
    – Lk77
    Aug 23, 2022 at 14:36
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    Once upon a time the NAA flag actually had the ability and intent to remove garbage like the referenced answer. Then users started abusing it to be "delete this answer because I don't like it" and the mods of course got sick of that, so NAA got nerfed into oblivion. Thus the only way we have to get rid of answers that are clearly garbage is to downvote them, hope enough other users downvote them so they get to a negative tally, then cast a delete vote and hope enough other users do the same to finally delete the offending answer. If that sounds like a stupid way to get garbage removed, IT IS!
    – Ian Kemp
    Aug 23, 2022 at 17:08
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    Your memory is failing you, @IanKemp. I think you may be suffering from rosy retrospection or some other similar ailment. As frustrated as you may be with the fact that NAA flags are not the way to get moderators to clear out such answers, they have never been a way to do this. It is not a lack of tooling problem. It is not because the system prevents us from clicking the delete button, and it has nothing to do with SEO. The only way this site ever had for users to get rid of answers they thought were not useful was by downvoting them. Aug 24, 2022 at 7:21

5 Answers 5

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This site is never going to consist solely of high-quality posts completely conforming to the guidelines for questions and answers. It will never be "clean" that way.

I think it is mostly a waste of everybody involved's time to try to make it so by flagging, getting a moderator's attention when the flag is disputed, then starting a meta discussion when the moderator disagrees with you as well. Flagging what you see is junk is good civic duty, but if the community/process doesn't go the way you think it should, in almost all cases just let it rest. It's only worth the hassle of following up if it's really egregious.

In this case the content of the answer you're challenging is essentially "Well it doesn't look like it's PCRE, because <evidence>". Without any knowledge of the accuracy of the claimed facts, I can immediately tell it's not a complete answer, so it's not high quality. It is claiming information that is relevant though, and might be helpful if is true and there were no other answers. I certainly can read it as the way you say, merely a response to the other answer, but I also can read it as a genuine attempt to provide the limited knowledge the poster has in the hope that it helps the OP; "it's not PCRE" seems to be more than the OP knew about the regex engine when they asked the question!

So I could go either way on if it's "really" Not An Answer, which probably means the flag should be declined. Flagging is to get rid of egregiously bad posts; borderline posts should probably be left alone to be judged by the community on their usefulness.

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    It is a bit of Stack Overflow maturity I think, to be strong enough to not try to correct someone that is wrong in the internet just because you think so. You don't even have to make an effort to find things on SO to be bothered by, you just need to click around a little. You have to be able to resist or you'll be writing disgruntled meta posts up the wazoo.
    – Gimby
    Aug 23, 2022 at 8:57
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    "This site is never going to consist solely of high-quality posts completely conforming to the guidelines for questions and answers" that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try.
    – Braiam
    Aug 23, 2022 at 15:00
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    In support of tolerating "borderline" answers, the Help Center states this in How do I write a good answer?: "So long as you fully answer at least a part of the original question, then you can contribute the results of your research and anything additional you’ve tried. That way, even if you can’t figure it out, the next person has more to go on."
    – skomisa
    Aug 23, 2022 at 15:26
  • @skomisa that implies that it answers the question in some capacity. This answer doesn't even achieve that.
    – Braiam
    Aug 23, 2022 at 17:22
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    @Braiam While it may be your view that the linked answer doesn't address the question in any capacity, others here plainly disagree with you. Even the OP concedes that it might have been posted as a comment.
    – skomisa
    Aug 23, 2022 at 17:50
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    @Braiam Of course you should try to make the site better! You should downvote, vote to close, flag, edit to improve, leave comments helping people improve their own posts, etc, (all as appropriate to the situation in your judgement). What you shouldn't do is go on a crusade trying to get the outcome of any of those actions changed after it becomes clear that some members of the community and/or some moderators disagree with you. Unless it's REALLY harmful, the time you spend trying to get one low-traffic post deleted would improve the site more if you spent it on multiple other posts.
    – Ben
    Aug 24, 2022 at 1:21
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    Thank you Ben for this "wake up call". I agree that I tend sometimes to get too hung-up on specific posts, like in this case. I accepted your answer because you are right - I should learn to let go. But mostly because you (and others in different comments) helped me change a bit my view regarding borderline posts and if it's not obviously bad to let it go. In the end the information can become helpful in some way. I liked Gimby's comment above in that regard
    – Tomerikoo
    Aug 24, 2022 at 6:48
  • @Ben why none of your options include "delete"? It's along with edit the only two effective ways of content curation. Closing isn't content curation, it's just a stop gap to force the other two, same with downvoting and commenting. All those actions are meant to get either the author or the community to edit or remove the content. "Crusading" is a word that it's used often with a bad connotation, I prefer "evangelize". The site after all, was designed to provide the most quality possible. And allowing sub-par quality content to stay isn't a effective way to do so.
    – Braiam
    Aug 24, 2022 at 10:12
  • @Braiam Sure, but in cases like the OP you personally do not have "delete" as an action you can take, alone. Some of the actions you can take lead to deletion if other people agree with you. If they don't that's fine. This is a site with community curation and moderators, not one where any one individual needs to get their way on every post they think would be better deleted. "Evangelising" spends time you (and others) could spend improving many other posts, which would be better if you genuinely care about site quality, rather than about being right in one specific instance.
    – Ben
    Aug 25, 2022 at 3:00
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    @Braiam Think of it like optimising a codebase for performance. :) You might think "allowing any inefficient line of code to exist isn't an effective way to make this program go as fast as possible", which might lead you to spend loads of time on every line of code trying to make it perfectly optimised. But in reality the time you have available to spend on optimisation is limited. So you will actually achieve more optimisation by making sure you don't spend too much time on any one line of code, so you have time to get to the others where there might be more important optimizations.
    – Ben
    Aug 25, 2022 at 3:04
  • @Ben "improving many other posts, which would be better if you genuinely care about site quality" are you aware you need to remove material from diamonds in order to shine, correct? Also I "optimize" my code by not keeping that that is not necessary or useful, while still achieving my goals. I don't spend time on any line of code, I spend exactly as much as needed. But lets get away from analogies: deletion is a crucial tool for curation of content, use it, and use it often! The 90% applies to greater extend to user generated content after all.
    – Braiam
    Aug 25, 2022 at 11:25
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Yes it is fine and encouraged to post answers questioning the correctness of other answers, but please note:

  • Your answer still needs to be a complete, stand-alone answer to the question, and not just some "meta-answer" which does nothing but commenting on an existing answer.
  • You might also want to leave a comment below an answer you consider incorrect.
  • Down-vote incorrect answers if you are certain that they are wrong.

Moderators may not have the specific technical domain knowledge necessary to determine if answers are correct, so flagging for diamond mod attention is usually not the way to go. Diamond moderators, or user moderators doing low quality answer reviews, can generally only judge if an answer is an attempt to answer the question, not the quality of the contents. So therefore such flags will often get declined/disputed.

If an incorrect answer is so bad that you consider it harmful, you could attempt to stir up enough domain expert users to cast delete votes, but that's both unusual and hard to do. If enough regex/sublime experts (is there even such a thing?) finds this meta question, then that might be one way to do it. But the normal way to deal with incorrect answers is down-voting.

on "trending" sort it is actually first

I think nobody knows or cares about what that means.

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    I don't think any field expertise is necessary. There is nothing about right/wrong or domain knowledge. The answer is clearly (to me at least...) addressing another answer and not answering the actual question asked (or any question at all). It offers a pattern that works on regex101 set on PCRE but doesn't work in sublime. This is either a new question ("How come this pattern works in regex101 but not in sublime?") or a comment on the answer claiming sublime uses PCRE
    – Tomerikoo
    Aug 22, 2022 at 10:12
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    And the comment about the trending sort was to show how wrong this is that an NAA will appear above actual answers and why I think it is necessary to get rid of it
    – Tomerikoo
    Aug 22, 2022 at 10:13
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    Why is it necessary to get rid of it? Is the (alleged) NAA incorrect? Assuming that the reader reads answers in order until they think they have enough info. If the incorrect answer appears before the NAA, they are liable to stop before they see the NAA ... and therefore not realize that the answer is (allegedly) wrong. The whole idea of "trending" is that new info >should< take precedence over old ...
    – Stephen C
    Aug 23, 2022 at 2:39
  • "... but that's both unusual and hard to do." - extremely hard ... if the incorrect question has a number of upvotes. Impractically hard.
    – Stephen C
    Aug 23, 2022 at 2:43
  • @StephenC If it is a common enough tag, like one of the major programming languages, you can probably rally a few 20k+ users with domain knowledge through the on-site chats. I think I remember doing it at some rare occasion, when an answer was so bad that it was actively harmful.
    – Lundin
    Aug 23, 2022 at 6:13
  • How many downvotes have you succeeded in getting for a single answer that way? Seriously.
    – Stephen C
    Aug 23, 2022 at 6:23
  • @StephenC Not down votes, delete votes. As in, it must already have delete-voting enabled.
    – Lundin
    Aug 23, 2022 at 6:31
  • Well yea. So you need a net negative voting score on an answer before delete-voting is an option. Don't you? Like I asked ... how many downvotes have you managed to rally on an answer ... to get it to the point where you can delete vote it?
    – Stephen C
    Aug 23, 2022 at 6:37
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    How do I write a good answer? in the Help Center directly contradicts your claim that "Your answer still needs to be a complete, stand-alone answer to the question". It states: "So long as you fully answer at least a part of the original question, then you can contribute the results of your research and anything additional you’ve tried. That way, even if you can’t figure it out, the next person has more to go on".
    – skomisa
    Aug 23, 2022 at 15:38
  • @skomisa Well I guess it is ok to answer part of the question, in case it contains more than one question. I wouldn't call that a good answer though. But what I meant was: you can't post an answer which is disconnected from the question and only talks about another answer.
    – Lundin
    Aug 24, 2022 at 6:28
  • "I think nobody knows or cares about what that [trending sort] means." -- well, it's one of the available sorting options for answers, and was even pushed to users for testing
    – ilkkachu
    Aug 25, 2022 at 7:17
  • I know. I care. Also ... I don't think there are any black letter rules that say you can't do that. This is just your opinion. (Or else show us where the rules are ...)
    – Stephen C
    Sep 1, 2022 at 4:30
4

If all it does is question the correctness of the other answers, it ought to be a comment.

Criticizing other answers is fine, but the answer should point out what the OP should do instead.

2

There are three separate questions here:

  • Your title question in general: Yes, IMO it can be ok if you do it well. But it needs to make an attempt to directly answer the question (or frame-challenge to address it in a different way). That part may be brief, like a quick summary and a link to another answer. A possible example of a non-bad answer like this could be one with a debugged and improved version of the code. Sometimes it's better to edit the original answer, but low-rep users can't even comment. And if you have other stylistic changes, then a separate answer can be better.

    If there isn't a good fix, it could still be useful or interesting to analyze why an answer that looks good on the surface has hidden problems.

  • Whether the specific answer you linked was ok: just barely ok as an attempt and limited form of answer, although not phrased very clearly. It wasn't clear to me, either, but others on this meta question suggest that it could be read as saying it can't be PCRE because.

    But it's worthy of downvotes: wrong conclusion: Using Boost PCRE doesn't imply that replacements can use Perl-style $1 syntax instead of \1. As well as the oblique way it answers without clearly stating an answer.

  • Whether you should flag answers like this (debatable), and if so whether NAA is the right flag. (Apparently not). Definitely not because an answer is merely wrong, even if it's very wrong; that's what downvotes are for. (I think that wasn't your reasoning, though.)

See Not-an-answer flag declined on an answer that's clearly a comment on the programming language/CPU design, not an answer to any programming question apparently mods only want NAA flags on answers that don't look like they could be the answer to any possible question.

Because there are so many of those, and processing such flags quickly is important, they'd rather not have flags mixed in where more careful attention and judgement is required.

So custom mod flag if necessary. Or just leave deletion to community votes, after downvotes make that possible.

0

In 1 to 5 years, if your answer has all the right information to an important and relevant question, then all those other answers will be left in the dust by your exceedingly upvoted answer.

We even have badges!

  • Populist: Highest scoring answer that outscored an accepted answer with score of more than 10 by more than 2x. This badge can be awarded multiple times.
  • Necromancer: Answer a question more than 60 days later with score of 5 or more. This badge can be awarded multiple times.

By that time, your answer is going to look very petty if you are wasting time talking down other answers. I recommend you take the high road. Answer the question, as asked, with all of the relevant information and then be patient and let the system do what it was designed to do. Given enough time, it will work (especially with the new "trending" sort).

Sometimes there are common mistakes that engineers may make, and maybe some of those mistakes are illustrated in the other answers. Rather than referring to other answers directly, just describe those mistakes as what they are and explain why they should be avoided. Those kinds of details are always appreciated, even if yours is the only answer to the question.

What I, personally, don't like seeing is a top-voted answer starting off with "All the other answers here are wrong." You might as well start off with "Hello, my name is Sam.". I don't care and it's not relevant and it distracts from your awesome contribution to the general pool of knowledge that is Stack Overflow.

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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with an answer explaining why other answers are wrong. And as long as it is done respectfully, there is nothing petty about it, especially if those other answers are accepted and/or highly upvoted. It's both helpful and relevant. An answer that also explains why other existing answers are wrong is generally a strong point in its favor for me.
    – skomisa
    Aug 23, 2022 at 17:58
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    @skomisa - If all other answerers were to see your answer, recognize it as superior, and delete their answers... if your answer still stands perfectly on its own, then it's a great answer. If not... then it's less than what it could have been, even if it still has enough information to be useful.
    – JDB
    Aug 24, 2022 at 13:42

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