46

I was quite surprised to see that I have downvoted questions approximately three times as often as upvoting them. This seems to be a lot more than most users.

My strategy for downvoting pretty much boils down to 'is this post useful for other people with the same issue'. A key part of being useful is whether the post is realistically searchable by people with the same problem. Therefore, I downvote any question which has a vague/non-specific title such as this one:

Example question with the title "Why the code attached below isn't working?"

Clearly, even if the question at hand is excellent inside (it isn't), it's going to be exceedingly difficult for anyone to find the information inside, given how vague the title is. So I downvote it.

Where possible, I try to edit the title into something more informative, but I don't always have the energy or motivation to do this for all posts, so I downvote them, even if the question inside seems to be reasonable.

Although it's up to me to decide how to use my votes, I do sometimes feel bad for being so strict with it and I always appreciate the input of more experienced users. Is this strategy useful for the site in the long run? Is it 'too harsh' for punishing new members?

32
  • 71
    As for the question, I wouldn't downvote the above just based on the title. I would edit the question to make the title more meaningful. If the content of the question is good, it is useful/helpful and demonstrates research, then you should be upvoting it not downvoting it.
    – Thom A
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 13:54
  • 20
    that is completly normal, to have 2 or 3 times higher downvotes as upvotes, if you are a critcal user that hopes that downhotes help the user to improve
    – nbk
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 13:55
  • 26
    A bad title is a problem; you are allowed to downvote questions based on problems they have. Whether you should or not is a matter for your own judgement.
    – khelwood
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 13:57
  • 2
    @β.εηοιτ.βε Except that the question/answer breakdown is across all votes, that's not the downvote breakdown, that's just the vote breakdown. Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 14:03
  • 1
    @β.εηοιτ.βε IT was that way prior the profile view update a couple of weeks ago.
    – Tom
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 14:08
  • 8
    Some people 1 2 have higher standards than others. That's not a problem. I believe Eric once said that one of his upvotes was a mistake. Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 14:15
  • 1
    @Nick I don't think we had the breakdown even before the profile change. At least I assume that's what you refer to. The stats were the same then - total count of upvotes, total count of downvotes, total count of votes on questions, total count of votes on answers. I've never seen a breakdown of up/down votes per question/answer.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 14:15
  • 2
    Looking at how many posts that are closed or unanswered of the total (something like 80% iirc), I think all of us ought to have a lot more down-votes than up-votes.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 15:26
  • 1
    Also note that if you spend time in review queues, especially Close Votes and Low Quality Answers, you're more likely to find posts you'll want to downvote.
    – BSMP
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 19:44
  • 10
    1) never. I used to, however i found this practice to more often than not lead to an argument, not a solution. 2) never. I don't feel I'm in a position to guess what people who have this problem might search for. 3) Not unless they reply to a comment I've left. If teh post is a good, useful, post, it will have a positive score in the long run regardless of whether or not I remove my downvote. Individual users are not the arbiters of whether or not content is useful or not, it's an aggregate score. You don't need a specific individual (other than the OP) to return to save a useful post.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 21:09
  • 2
    However, i think it's important to note that i do leave comments when i think the OP can improve their post, which includes when i think they have an unclear title and i have a suggestion that might help them fix it; regardless of whether or not i've casted a downvote or plan to.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 21:22
  • 2
    @DavidC.Rankin Could we please be a bit nicer to curating users, while we are at it? Perhaps that would make them feel safe enough to post constructive criticism. Really, it's telling that this is actually a notable reason for not giving advice. Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 8:16
  • 7
    @Trilarion Yeah it's subjective depending on how you are using the site. Users who do a lot of user moderation will end up with a lot more close- and down-votes than others.
    – Lundin
    Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 9:13
  • 3
    @David - “If you are downvoting before leaving a comment suggesting an improvement -- then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution” - I would only do this if I wanted to be attacked every time I provided feedback to a bad question or answer. Curating users are absolutely abused and nothing is done to those “new users” when it happens. Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 13:20
  • 4
    no @KonradRudolph i mostly view question of new users, which tend to be bad till very bad. Hence i vote to close a lot and if the question lacks in deratil are missing the mre i use the downvote button, simply because most people don't read the tag info or have read the how to ask. the same goes for, they ask a question, but they don't ask themselves can the reader who has nothing to do with my project understand what i am asking, but here i blame the schools, which should teach such things
    – nbk
    Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 10:12

7 Answers 7

48

Your downvoting behaviour is perfectly fine.


This is how the post you are referring to looks in my default search engine:

enter image description here

It plainly would not matter if there were a nice description in the question body, because most of it is not visible during search. Many other searches and views do not even show anything but the title.
A poor title hurts long-term usefulness immensely.

Rating a question as "not useful" because the title is non-descriptive is reasonable. Downvoting is thus reasonable as well.


Where possible, I try to edit the title into something more informative, but I don't always have the energy or motivation to do this for all posts, so I downvote them, even if the question inside seems to be reasonable.

Although it's up to me to decide how to use my votes, I do sometimes feel bad for being so strict with it and I always appreciate the input of more experienced users. Is this strategy useful for the site in the long run? Is it 'too harsh' for punishing new members?

The simple truth is that there is way more content to curate than people who do curation. Every bit of curation – be it categorization or restoration – helps and is useful for the site.
Try not to feel bad when you did not do everything – accept that you did something at least. The day has only 24h and you have only so much energy to spend. There is just no way you could do everything, and punishing yourself over not meeting such an unrealistic goal will hurt yourself.

If you do feel that this happens very often and want to help people improve, consider to prepare a canned comment: a pre-written comment that you just copy/paste on such questions. This reduces your effort to help people, and it can help detach yourself from inappropriate reactions; if it helps ten people, it is easier to stomach the one that reacted badly.
Consider also to follow posts that you put such comments on. This allows you to revert your vote once the content has been improved. Seeing a post improve due to the advice you gave is important to keep you motivated – and thus help you improve the site in the long run.

2
69

Downvoting a question because it has useless title is a good reason for the downvote. However, it is preferred that you edit and improve the question if possible. It's better than downvoting.

You define criteria for downvoting. We can't tell you anything more than the tooltip already does. Downvote posts that you think are not useful, are unclear or in low quality in any other way. Remember to upvote posts you find useful too.

6
  • 12
    Right, you can downvote however you see fit but if the reason is non-obvious based on the tooltip don't be expecting someone to know exactly how they're supposed to improve their question. This specific question, of course, has more issues than just the title, but when the question is otherwise excellent and it's one specific issue (and as you said preferably addressed with an edit), the point becomes more salient.
    – BoltClock
    Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 3:19
  • 11
    For user438383, also consider this: as Shog9 once said, writing titles is hard; if a question is otherwise excellent, why would you want to make it even less visible than the poor title has already made it, by adding a downvote on top of it? Surely you'd want such a question to gain more traction and hopefully help the asker find an answer if they haven't found one already. The best way to do that is to edit the question and just give it a better title (never mind any hypothetical concerns you might have of feeding someone a fish or whatever, it's OK, I promise).
    – BoltClock
    Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 3:21
  • 1
    I disagree that a useless title is a good reason to downvote exactly because one should just edit the title instead (and it should be quite trivial to do if you believe the author could've easily written a better title). One can downvote for any reason (other than one targeting users), which may make it a "valid" reason, but that doesn't mean the reason is good. There are so many other much more fundamental problems that a post can have, that downvoting for something you can easily fix just doesn't make sense if our goal is a high-quality library of questions and answers. Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 8:27
  • 2
    @BoltClock it would be easy to leave a comment explaining the reason for the downvote, but I stopped counting how often we were told not to do it. “Downvote and move on” was the declared policy. Of course, that implies that it is not obvious for the questioner how to improve the question.
    – Holger
    Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 8:41
  • 1
    @Holger: I never liked that policy myself. It's certainly good advice for dealing with questions you don't feel are worth your time, but not every question is like that. Sometimes it genuinely doesn't hurt to do so. Comments exist for a reason, why not use them? If it pisses someone off to be given an explanation why their question was downvoted, flag their response and move on - if a would-be voter/commenter doesn't want to deal with that potential fallout, then fair enough... otherwise, if they're alright, might as well say some words.
    – BoltClock
    Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 9:00
  • 2
    @Holger "“Downvote and move on” was the declared policy." Not really the declared policy, I'd say. Of course you can do it, but nobody will remove your comments if you happen to comment on the quality of something. At least I hope nobody does. Basically you're free to comment or not to comment. Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 11:35
22

Voting is a content rating system based on your own assessment regarding the quality and usefulness of a question or answer. If it is your assessment that such a title hampers the usefulness of the question, then it's in your right to downvote it. There is no need nor interest to overcomplicate this.

I do sometimes feel bad for being so strict with it and I always appreciate the input of more experienced users.

For one, by voting we are rating content, not users. If you make your votes dependent on the author, you are contributing to a misguided post score, while sending a false signal to the author and future visitors. Providing feedback is complementary at best, which can be done regardless of how you vote. Same applies to editing the question.

See also:

17

Poor titles make a post less useful because it makes it harder to find, and it makes it harder to tell whether a question is relevant to you or not. That makes a question less clear and less useful, both of which are reasons to downvote.

On the other hand, I personally prefer to salvage a question with editing if possible. If you can see a good way to fix the post by editing, that's probably better than downvoting; otherwise, feel free to downvote.

6
  • 1
    The most annoying is still, when they stuff the error message into there - but not repeat it inside the content area, because one cannot nicely copy & paste from the title area, unless somehow grabbing it at the right spot (it's not too handy). +1 for the appearance in the whole listing. Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 9:26
  • 2
    @MartinZeitler there is a trick for copying titles (it's for links in general) - hold down Alt and then you can click and mark any part of the link without activating it. Of course this shouldn't be an excuse for making somebody copy the title - that should only contain a summary of the problem, everything needed should be in the question itself.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 10:34
  • Re "Poor titles make a post less useful": Indeed they do. Especially in search engine results. Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 12:57
  • 1
    I often edit the question titles, often with an edit message of "non-useless title" if it was the only thing besides tags I changed, and the original was truly useless like "assembly language help". I know it's a little snarky, but it's also true and I'm showing them how to fix it at the same time, if they ever look at the edit history. Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 4:52
  • @VLAZ: In KDE (and other window managers that allow it), I prefer to have alt+left-click reposition the window, like click+drag in the title bar but without having to aim or have the title bar visible. To copy titles it can help to make the window wider so there's room outside the fixed width that SO limits to. (100% agreed that none of this ever justifies having crucial information or a verbatim error message be present only in the title.) Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 4:54
  • @VLAZ Thanks for the tip... that's quite the opposite behavior, as in a shell terminal. Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 8:02
9

The main purpose of downvoting is rating content and you can vote as you see fit.

However, not all content is worthy of a downvote. A main problem with posts that deserve downvotes is that their essence is bad and they can usually be only improved by the OP.

If the post is otherwise good, on-topic, and not blatantly an obvious duplicate, but it just needs some improvements that can be easily done by anyone else besides the OP, then downvoting is probably not the best option.

For instance, if a post has poor English, or a poor title, or similar, but otherwise it is good and contributes to the site, then you can either fix it yourself, leave a comment to the OP, or just leave the post alone. Someone else may come along and fix it.

This is also the reason why there is an edit feature which also rewards users reputation for editing. We want to improve what can be improved into a good post.

There are so many poor posts here that downvoting ones that can be saved is waste of a vote.


You don't have to worry about your upvote/downvote ratio. Users that moderate more tend to have way more downvotes than upvotes. In my case, of total votes cast, less than 10% were upvotes.

12
  • 3
    "There are so many poor posts here that downvoting ones that can be saved is waste of a vote." No. There's no vote quota, and there is absolutely no reason not to downvote something because there are other "worse" posts out there. Judge a post on its own (lack of) merits.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 14:33
  • 4
    What do you mean by "there is no vote quota"? I run out of votes frequently, @Cerbrus.
    – yivi
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 14:34
  • 5
    @Cerbrus I often ran out of daily votes, so yes there is a limit on votes and I try to spend them on really bad posts and not on ones that only have some minor issues.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 14:35
  • Hm, I've only ever ran out of comment votes. Are you sure there's also a max quota for downvotes? Still, I think a better suggestion is to not downvote something that has already received enough downvotes, and can be close-voted, in that case.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 15:18
  • 2
    Yes @Cerbrus, I'm sure.
    – yivi
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 15:21
  • I guess I'm more easily deterred by the bad questions, then ;-)
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 15:22
  • 4
    i do routinely hit the downvote cap, but it's rarely a reason in my case to avoid downvoting things i feel deserve it. Obviously, if your activity results in you hitting the cap often enough for it to be a problem, being more picky could be useful. You do what fits best for you.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 15:34
  • 3
    @Cerbrus Please read again what I wrote. I said, if the question is a good one (opposite of a bad one) and only has minor issues that can be easily fixed by other people, then downvoting seems to be over the top. If the only thing wrong with the question is a title, why would you downvote such question and not just improve the title?
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 18:19
  • Because it needs to be improved to be useful. It therefore isn’t useful, right now.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 18:21
  • @DalijaPrasnikar: Depends on how bad the title is.
    – Cerbrus
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 18:22
  • 4
    @Cerbrus It is just a title. Yes, title is extremely important, but title is just a summary of a problem. If the rest of the question is good, then title could be pure nonsense and one can still rewrite the title into a good title. Of course, in real life if the title is nonsense, then the question will probably be of same quality, but again if the title is the only problem then fixing the title instead downvoting seems like obvious choice.
    – Dalija Prasnikar Mod
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 18:30
  • Unless you make a list of all your down votes and frequently go through them to up voted improved content, it isn't a good idea to down vote things that aren't useful now but have problems that are easily corrected. Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 20:11
5

Is this strategy useful for the site in the long run?

No, it's not. You downvote based on what you perceive as downside of a post. That is your right, you can vote your conscience.

However, to be useful to the site, you need to tell people why you downvoted them, otherwise they will not improve. They will just become resentful of the random internet person that downvoted them with no obvious reason.

Punishment without a way for the punished to improve is cruel and inhuman. Please note that you used the term punishment, so even if downvotes might not be thought of as punishment, I think we agree that being docked internet points does not feel good and you want to use this feeling for behavior adjustment. So far so good. But your whole strategy becomes meaningless, the moment you don't tell people what you punish them for.

If you want to teach people, random punishment without obvious reason only teaches hate and resentment. To teach anything, you would be a good example, offer specific advice and maybe if you think punishment is a good teaching method (debatable), then you can punish someone, after they saw your example, heard your advice and ignored it.

5
  • 1
    Ironic that the "tell people why you downvoted them" answer has a downvote without a reason why :S
    – Matt K
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 19:14
  • 10
    You shouldn't tell people why you downvoted them, you should instruct them how they can improve their post. That leaving a comment reason wasn't included in the question, isn't an indication that commenting should be avoided; it's simply a different topic entirely.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 19:16
  • 3
    FWIW, for many questions that are downvoted (and occasionally some upvoted) I can't figure out why they got the votes they did. And while some downvoters pay attention to question edits and remove no longer valid downvotes, many do not. I agree that this behaviour is harmful to the site.
    – Mockman
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 19:18
  • 8
    See also Why isn't providing feedback mandatory on downvotes, and why are ideas suggesting such negatively received? - Meta Stack Overflow, just because nobody have linked to it. — talk about down vote being punishment is also problematic, although alright OP said that first.
    – user202729
    Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 5:41
  • Ideally you downvote posts, not people / users. Even though it's the people who post with useless titles that are wasting your time summarizing their question for them, especially when they didn't even try at all and just titled "Assembly language help" or "help me with this" or some crap. Commented Jan 21, 2022 at 5:02
-6

I agree with @nvoight whe they say:

To teach anything, you would be a good example, offer specific advice and maybe if you think punishment is a good teaching method (debatable), then you can punish someone, after they saw your example, heard your advice and ignored it.

I tend to use this exact method, the only difference is that the downvote after being ignored is not so much a punishment, but a way to signal a bad post. I don't care to punish people, but the good users (and I'm pretentiously including myself in this category) should care for the overall quality of the site.

4
  • 4
    If your vote is because they didn't follow your advice... it's punishment regardless of what you call it. These two actions need to be disconnected.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 23:25
  • 1
    @KevinB There is a difference, you surely understand that, and OP will also. And it's not because of the advice per se, it's if I feel that without changes the post is bad and deserving of DV, one can interpret that as punishment, I surely don't.
    – anastaciu
    Commented Jan 19, 2022 at 23:30
  • 3
    If the content deserved a DV after they ignored your advice, surely it deserved a DV before they ignored your advice, isn't it? Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 6:43
  • 1
    @MisterMiyagi yes, the point is you should help improve the content before you hastily downvote, at least that's what I do. And I do downvote, 30% of my votes are DVs
    – anastaciu
    Commented Jan 20, 2022 at 8:10

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .