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First, I'm avoiding presenting the answer in question here as my goal isn't to whine/point fingers/brigade/etc, but rather to understand the best course of action here as a privileged and trusted user of Stack Overflow.

I had a bit of an argument in the comments with an answerer around a certain convention used in their original answer. The answerer eventually updated their post but there is some passive-aggressiveness/snark added that I feel should not be part of a good answer. However, due to the comment thread underneath, if I make the edit myself I feel could be seen as making a biased or non-impartial edit, and if this were someone else's answer entirely I was not involved in I would feel the same way in that said user should not have made a unilateral edit, and if it were not edited out already I would simply edit it (or suggest an edit if rep is too low for a unilateral one).

My point here isn't to whine about another user, I'm a big boy and can handle myself on the internet. But rather since I have high enough rep to make a unilateral edit, I don't have the ability to suggest edits anymore. What is the recommended course of action when I feel I should suggest an edit rather than make the unilateral edit myself? I feel edits should not be made out of personal bias or offense and while in my opinion I feel suggesting an edit is appropriate here, I wouldn't want to make said edit and be seen as abusing my privileges.

My first thought is to raise a flag, but there doesn't seem to be an appropriate flag for this:

  • Spam: It's not spam.
  • Rude or abusive: Not rude, just passive-aggressive (passive-aggression is not always rude but can be perceived as such). I would not call the post content abusive.
  • Not an answer: It is an answer.
  • Very low quality: It is not a low quality answer, and does meet the asker's criteria.
  • In need of moderator intervention: I don't feel it needs mod involvement, I just want to suggest an edit to remove the irrelevant language to the core answer. I also often notice on Meta that this flag is sometimes abused and my goal is not to abuse this flag reason and annoy the mods if it is not appropriate.

While this surrounds Edit privileges, this question also extends to the gold tag privilege granted when closing a question as a duplicate. However, since I don't have a gold tag badge, I don't know whether gold tag badge-holders can still suggest closure rather than make a unilateral one when it could be debatable whether the question is truly a duplicate or not (such as the case when perhaps the question differs, but the answer is largely the same with little nuance for the asker's unique situation).

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  • 25
    If someone thinks they can edit a post to improve it, they should make it. Ignore the rest. Focus on the content, not the user.
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 21:17
  • 7
    The quote formatting shouldn't be used for arbitrary highlighting of own words. Regarding gold badges: no they/we cannot suggest a dupe without closing it directly when we have a matching badge. But we still can write a comment and suggest it there. The same for your edit privileges. You can just log out and suggest an edit. Then you have other, impartial reviewers who can decide if the edit is good or not.
    – Tom
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 21:18
  • 4
    I will admit, I do kind of wish I could VTC as dupe and have the option to not unilaterally close, there are times where I want to push the user to the right answer, or that there's a single missing link that would seal my certainty; then the OP can accept the dupe suggestion instead. It is especially frustrating when there is (at least) one user who frequently posts answers to well know duplicates in the tags I frequent, and instead the OP just accepts their answers because the guess was right. :(
    – Thom A
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 21:35
  • 14
    This seems like a question you've gone to good effort to frame well and I appreciate that you've done that. I've been in the situation you describe and it can, indeed, feel really tough to know what to do in that situation.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 21:54
  • 1
    @BendertheGreatest On an off-note, why did your edit remove 2 lines of code (just want to understand the reason as I was going to review it)? They seem to have already rejected the edit unilaterally as the post owner, though. I suggest making an edit as you see fit because a lot of the answer in question [no pun intended] is just snarky/noise and then flag for mod attention if you feel a rollback war is going to start.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:12
  • 1
    I noticed that. Based on suggestions here I will just edit to remove the irrelevant content myself as I guess that's okay. I suppose if accused (I've seen others post about "abusive edits" though I don't think this will escalate to that point) I can just point to this thread saying "I tried"
    – codewario
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:16
  • 2
    @BendertheGreatest yeah, just adding my 2 cents because I tend to edit a lot and bump into these situations from time to time. They tend to get ugly, so in those cases flagging helps to calm things down. I wish SE made it clearer that "posts" are contributions to the knowledge database, not personal blog spaces
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:27
  • 2
    @BendertheGreatest thank you for clarifying - I only wanted to know in the context of deciding how to review the suggested edit, but thanks anyway. Yeah, I saw they rolled back the edit you made afterwards that only included formatting improvements and snark and noise removal - some folks just can't accept "their" posts can be edited into shape by other members of the community. Sigh.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:59
  • 3
    "avoiding presenting the answer in question here" Don't do this. All you're achieving is to remove context that is often critical to the topic at hand. If the meta effect happens, that's not your responsibility.
    – Ian Kemp
    Commented Sep 9, 2021 at 9:58
  • 6
    @IanKemp you can look up the question in my profile, if you really want. Again, meta effect is not my goal here and I do feel I should prevent it to some degree
    – codewario
    Commented Sep 9, 2021 at 11:18
  • 9
    Well, I disagree because the point of this post isn't about addressing the answer I'm referencing, the answer is only relevant for general context which I feel I've described well. It's about "in this type of situation, not necessarily this specific one, how do I avoid abusing my privileges/community trust?"
    – codewario
    Commented Sep 9, 2021 at 12:51
  • 2
    You are correct in that I'm obfuscating the content, and you can easily go look up in my profile and find what I'm talking about if you choose. But this is enough of a deterrent that I hope most figure it's not worth their time. Providing a link makes it effortless to find the answer in question and potentially expose the user to toxic behaviors like brigading, serial downvoting, etc. if enough users felt this instance was egregious enough.
    – codewario
    Commented Sep 9, 2021 at 12:54
  • 2
    That isn't my goal and is my reasoning for not including it here; the specifics of the answer aren't relevant to what I'm asking, and unnecessarily exposes the user to cyber-abuse. Again, for the fewer who feel the need to look into the answer specifics, that is up to you and you can peruse my profile at your leisure.
    – codewario
    Commented Sep 9, 2021 at 12:55
  • 2
    @IanKemp I assume this is the answer in question. The user did rollback the change after the edit, so this is likely going to go to mod review for content dispute.
    – Blue
    Commented Sep 10, 2021 at 17:45
  • 5
    @JasonS It's not "a shady undercurrent" or just from the last 6-8 years. It is literally the designed intent of how Stack Exchanges sites are supposed to work. I don't know how you could have missed that after nearly 13 years of active participation...
    – TylerH
    Commented Sep 12, 2021 at 12:09

6 Answers 6

33

If the post has indeed useful comment other than the snarky fluff, then please go ahead and edit the question into shape. It is very uncomfortable to stumble upon a question or answer with that kind of commentary, so editing that out is definitely an improvement.

That a part of it was directed towards you personally should not have weight in this decision, because removing meta-commentary is standard practice which is very likely to be well accepted by the majority of the curating community. If the author insists on bringing it back, then that would be the time to call a moderator.

Rude/abusive flags should be reserved for posts without lasting value and containing nothing but inappropriate content.

Moreover, as the discussion was done, feel free to remove your own comments and flag the remaining comments as no longer needed.


Handling duplicate questions as a gold badge holder is another subject altogether, as it should depend on your own confidence of the duplicate target's accuracy. See for example this Meta question for some tips.

0
7

The general rule here is that you should focus on content and not the user. If you can improve a post, improve it. But keep the original intent. Feel free to correct typos and things that are objectively wrong. If you think something lack a source, feel free to add a source. If a long answer is lacking a TL;DR, then add it.

Whenever you are about to fix things that falls under "I don't think that is suitable here" it may VERY easily turn into an edit war, and as you have rightly guessed, it will not look good if you do it if you're a part in the argument.

The answerer eventually updated their post but there is some passive-aggressiveness/snark added that I feel should not be part of a good answer.

This is an important thing. Are you completely sure that your edit objectively will make things better? Are you sure your opinion about the comment really is not colored by the argument you had? Are you sure that most other people would find it snarky, and are you sure that the answerer isn't correct that the objection is a very rare corner case that usually don't need to be addressed?

You have not provided an example, so I'll just create one.

Some old school C coders who thinks that backwards compatibility is the most important thing in the whole wide world would object that your code is not safe because it assumes ascii encoding and will break if you use ebcdic, but machines using them are extremely rare.

It's a bit passive aggressive. But it does include very useful information. It tells us that the code would break on some systems. It also tells us that it's very rare that it would happen. And actually, I would argue that it also gives the information that if you're a C coder, you WILL run into these persons from time to time, and it's up to you to decide if you want to listen or not.

This means that you cannot just delete it. You have to rewrite it. And you also have to rewrite it so that the message does not disappear. IMHO, the above is ok. Slightly passively aggressive, but not overly so. Maybe it's a bit better if were written in a slightly nicer way, but to be honest, I don't think it matters that much.

So it's hard to say. It depends. For most cases, I'd say that it's best to just ignore it. If you start editing it, you will probably quite fast be aware if it was a good idea or not.

4
  • I've been following the "edit, ensure the user is unreasonable [hell-bent on starting a rollback war], flag" procedure - works pretty well in such cases. To provide some context, the answer had the following bits to (not exact quotes): "it nearly drove crazy" (noise), and "for purists, here is... Shrug. And this... Shrug. And this... Shrug" - and that's what Bender attempted to remove (only the "shrug" parts)
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 10, 2021 at 16:53
  • "The general rule here is that you should focus on content and not the user" -- that needs to be changed IMHO. Specifically the wording (and the general methodology of SO which reflects that wording) of and not the user. Keep the user in the loop. His/her problems are real. If you can improve content, that's fine, but think long and hard before you "improve content" and diverge from the user's intent and interests.
    – Jason S
    Commented Sep 10, 2021 at 23:15
  • @JasonS except "intent" is a property of the content, and not the user. And editors have explicit guidance to never change intent. User "interests", however, should have no bearing in content curation - we are not a tiny site anymore.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 10, 2021 at 23:33
  • "User "interests", however, should have no bearing in content curation - we are not a tiny site anymore." That SO/SE's champions believe this, just makes me sad.
    – Jason S
    Commented Sep 12, 2021 at 21:36
2

while in my opinion I feel suggesting an edit is appropriate here, I wouldn't want to make said edit and be seen as abusing my privileges

Make the edit.

Remember, editing is lightweight. If the author of the question / answer you are editing (or anyone else!) doesn't like the edit, that person is free to roll it back. At that point you will bow out rather than get into a ko fight, and no harm done. So in effect, an edit is a proposed edit.

That said, in the situation you describe, I always start by commenting, making a suggestion about the proposed edit directly to the author of the question / answer. Most of the time the outcome is a positive one.

1

I've seen this a time or two, in some form, in my past role as a moderator of Worldbuilding. It's useful to discuss it in the Chat and see if someone else will make the edit.

That is, you can't use the "suggested edit" review queue, but you can use the chat room for the same purpose.

-7

I basically agree with @klutt's answer. And I would say your question shows the answer in itself: if you have so many doubts, don't do it.

I am not a huge user of SO, but I've seen enough complaints about the partiality of the community and how it imposes its "moral" views. If the language is acceptable, let it go. I myself don't like lack of objectivity or excess of humor in the answers, but I wouldn't dare censor it (unless it makes the content obscure).

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    What you call "imposing moral views" is better known as curation and is the primary reason because me, and you, and everyone else can enjoy finding a quick reference without wading through tons garbage (and in cases we do have to do - this is how it would look like). Also, there is no such thing as "downgrading" on the network, it's called "downvoting". Finally, what you call "moral impositions" is called "disagreeing with the answer completely", there is simply no need for explanation.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 10, 2021 at 16:42
  • Thanks for confirming my suspicions with your tentative of explanation even though you pretend there is something called disagreeing completely that eliminates the need for explanations. It seems you did not get my answer because if the tone of the answer (the subject of all this) was transforming the answer into garbage, then the user who asked the question would have no doubt about what to do. And it would also fall into the case I described as making the content obscure. So it seems you did not even get the main topic. It’s funny to see how the mass is inspired by your indignation.
    – Ekeko
    Commented Sep 10, 2021 at 17:33
  • 5
    I like how the only snark, sense of having the "high moral ground", and assumptions about what others' capability for understanding written speech (yes, I am referring to your comment above) I've seen on the platform in my time here is coming from those who disapprove of editing. It's very funny too. To clarify to you again: I understand your point pretty damn well. This is what I (and I assume others too) disagree: "let it go", "wouldn't dare sensor it", and "how it imposes its 'moral' views". No, we do not have to let things go just because some think their posts are precious snowflakes.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 10, 2021 at 17:54
  • 3
    No, this is not censoring - this is about removing fluff, noise, condescending tone, and basically anything that does not serve an educational purpose
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 10, 2021 at 17:55
  • 1
    Can you provide some examples of how the community imposes its "moral" views? Commented Sep 11, 2021 at 7:24
  • @OlegValter not educational purpose, we aren't here to educate, but to create a library of high quality Q&A about <topic of the site>. High quality and fluff tend to be orthogonal to each other.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 11, 2021 at 11:37
  • 1
    @Braiam - I am the last person who needs to be told that :) Education, by definition is transfer of knowledge, sorry, but we are here to educate. Just not the OP.
    – 0Valt
    Commented Sep 11, 2021 at 13:32
-16

basically you can't flag it as it contains an answer.

If you can make an argument that the post is offensive against something or other, but as we don't know the answer we can not tell you opinion about that.

You can only downvote it and hope other will follow

Downvoting

is the only viable solution to answers you don't like and where flagging is not an option.

the guidlines and option of flagging are ofzen not helpful as they only try to stay vaque.

further when you flag it is sometimes depending who visits your flag, for a decline or helpfulness.

so the

the only chance to get along besides ignoring is Downvoting

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    Downvoting an otherwise correct answer seems like a poor solution in this case. The problem should be fixed so that the good answer is there for others to see. People won't know that it's downvoted because of the tone or some collection of now-deleted comments.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 21:55
  • 2
    @Catija I'm not sure I agree here. A downvote seems appropriate for content which is poorly formatted, contains excessive unrelated information, or contains incorrect information. Downvotes shouldn't be given for comment threads as the answer is what is important here but if the answer contains incorrect information, snark, meta-commentary, or similar I would argue that it is not a good, clear answer. Especially if the answer literally "huffs", "puffs" and "shrugs" (as in, literal words) as if to say "technically this works too but bleh". That's not really the type of content I expect on SO.
    – codewario
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:08
  • 8
    @BendertheGreatest I agree - it doesn't belong here - and that's what editing is for, not downvoting. If our platform didn't allow community editing, I'd agree with you, but by your logic, content with poor spelling, grammar, formatting, would then also be eligible for downvoting instead of fixing, which is (to me, anyway) totally backwards! That doesn't mean I never downvote for this but it's usually only in cases where attempts have been made to fix the problem and the OP insists on reverting to the "bad" form for some reason - though in extreme cases, a lock may be needed.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:11
  • 5
    I understand not everyone has the time to edit a post and so a downvote can be a shorthand option... but doing that kinda makes me sad. It means that content that may be otherwise good is getting negative ratings for things that the OP may not even be aware of are wrong (though that might not be the case in this specific situation). I'd rather someone edit or get someone else to edit (like finding someone in chat to help) than downvote an otherwise good post that has some minor (fixable) issues such as these.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:13
  • Fair enough. I'm not disagreeing with you but I'm enjoying the dialog as I've been trying to be more active here lately. I like this place and don't want to abuse my trusted status.
    – codewario
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:14
  • 1
    you can always downvote as it is subjective, what you like or doesn't like, what you approve or disapprove. As i wrote in my aanswer, if you don't have a strong argument for abusive answer, simple downvote everything what you don't like. the Argument of @Catija is wrong, when your answer contains sql injection it is normal to downvote it, even when the answer is correct and could solve the problem
    – nbk
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:20
  • 4
    We aren't required to edit posts into good posts. If it's a post with problems, it warrants a downvote. If it gets edited into something worthwhile, upvotes will come naturally.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:24
  • 2
    Upvotes on SO are driven by outside traffic. If the question has a title that will attract users, and the answer is worthwhile, it will recover from a few downvotes early on before it is fixed (or even without the fix if it's something people actually need.) If it doesn't, then it probably wasn't that great of an entry to the knowledgebase anyway.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:36
  • 4
    @KevinB I'm pretty sure that we have data that shows voting on site is very depressed and many posts aren't getting enough votes to actually validate whether the content is good or not. I haven't looked at it recently but... I don't think that's always the case. That seems like a best case scenario way of thinking but I'm not certain it reflects the actual way things work.
    – Catija Staff
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 22:37
  • 3
    If a post isn't getting votes, it isn't getting views by people who both A: see it as useful, and B: can vote. If you're saying the fundamental system we use to rank content isn't being used enough to rank the content, clearly we have a bigger problem than low quality posts receiving a few downvotes.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Sep 8, 2021 at 23:03
  • 3
    Well @Catija maybe we should be promoting editing more. I find that it isn't promoted and encouraged enough despite language on the help center telling people that is central to this site.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 9, 2021 at 1:09
  • @Braiam, in order to do "promoting editing more", => would also be needed to increase the Nb of "Edit Approvers" for Users under the 1k-5k-10k Rep (not sure where the Limit is...) whose Edits usually take 24h before they'll eventually be approved (on Qt's) but in those 24h those Qt's (of fairly Low Qlt on "small" Tags) will have already gathered at least one (-1) and will still be deleted by the User or 'Roomba'... (=> Wasted Time and Energy for the Editor...)
    – chivracq
    Commented Sep 11, 2021 at 0:16
  • Editing is difficult as you can"t tell what th questioner wants and the rules tell you don' t edit bugs downvote and make your own answer. This is clearly to see in the edit review and the possible options. A my pointvwas correct from the beginning
    – nbk
    Commented Sep 11, 2021 at 0:25
  • @chivracq I don't get what you are talking about. Editing isn't only done by those without privileges.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 11, 2021 at 9:29
  • @nbk [citation needed] the help center only says "Any time you see a post that needs improvement and are inclined to suggest an edit, you are welcome to do so" and "Edits are expected to be substantial and to leave the post better than you found it", nothing about bugs or otherwise. Just make the post better.
    – Braiam
    Commented Sep 11, 2021 at 9:31

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