47

Original question:

I have recently started reviewing posts on Stack Overflow and I ran into the following situation:

A newer user suggested editing an older answer (2009) with a total score of 106. Even though this answer has the highest rating, it is not accepted (there is no accepted answer at all).

The user wanted to add an easier way to solve the problem with a method that might not have been there back then or the author of the post/answer was not aware of it.

I still have a screenshot of this:

I skipped this because I was not sure how I should handle it.

On one hand, to me, this looks like an improvement and the suggestion honors the original content, but on the other hand, I feel like this should be rather a comment or a new answer even.

I would like to improve my reviews so that I can do it with confidence. What do you suggest?

Some more thoughts:

Does it actually mess with the integrity of the post itself? Should one allow any change, but formatting and re-tagging anyway? Because in a way it may have side effects or the purpose of an edit was because of misinterpretation or just because it is outdated in a way.

Actually, if we accept a change like this or something similar, the OP could revert the changes, couldn't they? So it is more a question of: Would they actually notice it and change it back or would the change, in case it is harmful, just stay there for eternity? What if the OP left the community?

2
  • 34
    The edit is proposing something entirely different from what the original answer says. Better to put it in a separate answer or make a comment suggesting that OP edit to include the other method. Commented Aug 14, 2020 at 3:15
  • 1
    @CertainPerformance Yes it is different, but the question asked for the latter actually, so this was probably some kind of workaround in the first place. But If I had to choose, I would have gone for: "this should be a comment rather than an edit" and reject it. Anyway, thanks for the feedback.
    – F. Müller
    Commented Aug 14, 2020 at 3:32

3 Answers 3

62

No, this edit should not have been approved. It deviates significantly from the original intent of the author.

People who want to contribute new information that might answer the question should post a new answer, not edit existing ones. If they would like the author of an existing answer to add an additional answer, they should post a comment to that effect.

This advice applies generally to all edits, not just the one in question here. However, there's an important exception, which is the Community Wiki answer. As such answers are intended to reflect the accumulated knowledge of all contributors, it can be reasonable to add new/different to such answers.

I will also note that in this specific case, the edit doesn't actually add anything new to the question and answers, because there are already multiple answers with that exact information (which doesn't work in every case anyway, in spite of what the proposed edit claims…there's a significant difference between "title case" and capitalizing everything).

16
  • 1
    Good, so this means I was not that far off after all. Mind elaborating on the significance of deviation from the original thought? What is not significant i.e. acceptable in general in your opinion?
    – F. Müller
    Commented Aug 14, 2020 at 6:27
  • 6
    @F.Müller keep it simple. If you change the meaning of an existing answer (or question for that matter), you're doing it wrong. Edits should help to make the existing better, not to make the existing different.
    – Gimby
    Commented Aug 14, 2020 at 10:10
  • 1
    Related.
    – Sinatr
    Commented Aug 14, 2020 at 10:15
  • 4
    @Braiam: frankly, your link is irrelevant with respect to your complaint about "intent". The "Reject" prompt for reviewing edits specifically includes the option "clearly conflicts with author's intent". Both this and the "attempt to reply" choices are reasonable options in the given case, but you cannot complain that someone might consider intent when that is exactly one of the choices presented to the user when they reject an edit. Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 0:22
  • @PeterDuniho "Even edits that must make drastic changes should strive to preserve the goals of the post's owner." BTW, the one I'm quoting is the same guy that wrote the reject reasons, and the goal was "Changing the meaning/intent is the cardinal sin here - the name and guidance should focus on this." While it was using "intent" it was interchangeably with meaning. The implicit intent of the answerer is to answer the question; the asker of ask a question.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 0:32
  • 1
    @Braiam: sorry, I have no idea what your point is. By bolding the "there's nothing about intent there", you seem to be taking me to task for raising the question of "intent". Yet, all of the text you quote really does go to "intent", and that's especially clear in your most recent quotes. If you think there's really something wrong here, you're going to need to be a lot more clear about what part of my answer you're responding to, what you think specifically is wrong with it, and what your justification is for that. So far as I can tell, you don't actually disagree with my answer. Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 0:36
  • 3
    @Braiam No.. you cannot say that the answerers intent is to answer the Question and so you can just edit it into anything that is an Answer. If you feel the need to do it differently than the post you're looking at, then make your own Answer.
    – Scratte
    Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 6:42
  • @Scratte who cares? if it improves the answer, it should be approved. Point. Or do you not want to improve SO?
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 16, 2020 at 16:50
  • 2
    @Braiam Everyone that writes Answers cares that their words are not misrepresented, or that they are not portrayed as saying something, they never actually said. If you want to make Stack Overflow better, use your own profile to write your own words. Don't put words in someone else's post, when there were never there to begin with. Your "if you don't agree, you don't want to make Stack Overflow better" doesn't fly!
    – Scratte
    Commented Aug 16, 2020 at 21:19
  • @Scratte then let me quote the editing page for you: Editing is important for keeping questions and answers clear, relevant, and up-to-date. If you are not comfortable with the idea of your contributions being collaboratively edited by other trusted users, this may not be the site for you. Editing is a fundamental aspect of SE sites. Without it, we would be another quora/yahoo answers. If you want an extreme example of that aspect this guy got his answer edited by a moderator to include an example
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 16, 2020 at 23:18
  • At the end, he decided to remove its answer because it couldn't have it its way. But on the question its contribution is the highest scoring answer. We are collaboratively improving the site. That improvement can't happen without freely being able to edit each other post.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 16, 2020 at 23:22
  • 1
    @Braiam You're using the wrong excuses. This is not wikipedia. Every user is associated with their posts and every user is evaluated based on them. When an edit deviates from the original intents, it's not longer an edit. It's a rewrite. No one wants those. Nice example by the way. I assume it made the internet better that post was removed.. ?!? ;)
    – Scratte
    Commented Aug 17, 2020 at 3:57
  • @Scratte But this is wikipedia. Everything has a wiki aspect to it. If you chose to ignore it, it would only doom us all.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 17, 2020 at 12:58
  • 2
    @Braiam It seems you're the only one that thinks this way. Which is concerning. If you edit someone else's post, their reputation is as stake. You should consider that before claiming the post "as your own" making "your rules" on it. Your linked blog says "the confluence of wiki, discussion, blog, and reddit/digg ranking systems", and you seem to forget about the "ranking systems". It also says "This is our site". It doesn't say you can put your words in others users posts. wikipedia does not have a ranking system. Don't forget that.
    – Scratte
    Commented Aug 17, 2020 at 14:06
5

The answer from Peter Duniho follows the mainstream idea of Stack Overflow, putting the "gamification" points and individual's ego above the public good.

The initial idea of a site like Stack Overflow is to provide good answers. It's almost impossible to provide a good answer without a community effort. In this sense, editing existing answers is indisputable good (of course as long as the edit indeed adds value), especially popular answers written long time ago.

But due to the notion expressed in the accepted answer, Stack Overflow is full of stale fossils from the last decade, which nobody dares to touch, fearing to injure the original author's ego. As a result, visitors from Google get too localized or outdated answers.

Adding a new answer sounds good on paper, but in reality, for a popular question it will appear on the second page and hardly get any notice. Its accepted or highest scored answer draws all the attention. And it's much better to get all the proper information in a single place, without the need to skim a dozen different answers. Talk about usability.

13
  • 6
    It's not (merely) a matter of injuring the original author's ego. Once the answer has been edited, the edit cannot be voted on independently of the rest of the answer, and most readers won't investigate the revision history to see what the edit changed. If the edit actually makes the answer worse (eg, because it doesn't properly handle some corner case that the editor didn't consider), the answer may start attracting downvotes. And (of course) those downvotes affect the rep of the original author, not the editor. That's hardly fair.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 15:43
  • 1
    Yes. that's why it should be editing, not voting if you see something wrong. But then it would be a completely different site. I wish it was Jimmy Wales who started Stack Overflow... Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 15:47
  • Hmm... I find this interesting. Maybe they could make it so, that you can see the edited answer in the first place and then indicate somehow that this has been forked into a community answer. And you can switch between the "show original answer" or "show community answer" i.e. there would be 2 answers in total that are linked.
    – F. Müller
    Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 16:42
  • 2
    @YourCommonSense But how would that work? We ask editors to not change the intent / meaning of an answer because the original author is ultimately responsible for that content, and they are the one who gets the associated upvotes or downvotes. Scores & rep aren't infallible, but it's a fact of life that we use them on Stack Exchange to help us judge the merits of an answer. If a would-be editor has a significant disagreement with an answer, they can post a comment, &/or a competing answer.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 16:43
  • 1
    Like I said, it won't work. It has to be a completely different site, information-centered, not ego-centered. Such as Wikipedia. You see, there are two parties. One worships the person who posted the question and one worships the person who came from Google search. For the former, the ego-centerd site is sort of okay. But when I see Stack Overflow through the eyes of the latter, my eyes bleed... Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 16:46
  • @PM2Ring the site has wikipedia aspects of it: you are encouraged to fix, improve posts, not merely vote on them. Stack Overflow is a wiki first, the ability to edit others posts were there since the start and it's a core part of the SO framework.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 16, 2020 at 16:54
  • @Braiam That's true, but in practice, because of the issue of post ownership, improvements made by direct edits generally should be incremental, and not significantly change the contents. You should not put your words into the mouth of the author. If it's a minor typo or calculation error, then sure, fix it. Otherwise, post a comment suggesting an edit, or post a new answer. OTOH, I admit that there's not much point in suggesting edits on an old answer by an author who's abandoned the site.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Aug 16, 2020 at 18:15
  • @PM2Ring remember, that you grant a license to SE when you post; so I would say that the whole issue is a red hearing. If there's no author to coax into maintaining their post, why shouldn't we delete them when they delete their account. BTW, this "problem" is mostly SO painting itself onto a corner. Other sites forgo the author wishes if it improves the site (example)
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 16, 2020 at 18:33
  • @Braiam I agree with everything Jeff says there. Note that he says "to correct minor mistakes or add addendums / updates as the post ages". That's what I meant by incremental changes.
    – PM 2Ring
    Commented Aug 16, 2020 at 18:43
  • 1
    I agree with the sentiment of this; however, I understand the issues that others are bringing up as well. Personally, if I see a top/accepted answer that is outdated I would leave a comment on the answer mentioning that and post my own answer with the up to date information. The original author can then choose to integrate it into their own answer if they want; otherwise, the comment will help make future readers aware that there are other potentially better solutions. (At least if they choose to read the comments)
    – Herohtar
    Commented Aug 16, 2020 at 19:53
  • @PM2Ring what kind of edit you call this one? I would say that it is an addendum.
    – Braiam
    Commented Aug 16, 2020 at 23:21
  • StackOverflow's mechanism for getting good answers is to allow the community voting to organically push the best/most useful answers to the top of the list. By advocating allowing such an addition to an existing high-vote answer, you're suggesting that the moderators deliberately subvert the mechanism to artificially boost visibility on someone else's contribution, based on the viewpoint that it 'adds value'. This assumes that: 1) The addition is correct 2) The moderators have enough domain knowledge to judge the addition correct.
    – SailsMan63
    Commented Aug 20, 2020 at 5:41
  • It appears that you have concerns about the viability of SE's mechanism here, which is fair enough. But suggesting that moderators should subvert that mechanism will only make it worse in the long run. (What happens when the moderators are wrong?)
    – SailsMan63
    Commented Aug 20, 2020 at 5:48
4

Should a suggested edit which adds new content to an old answer with good upvotes be approved?

First of all, It doesn't matter at all whether the edit is for a newer or older post nor how many votes the post has.

If an edit is to be approved, only the quality and improvement of the post to be edited itself should be considered. Not the votes or duration of the post to be edited.

On one hand, to me, this looks like an improvement and the suggestion honors the original content, but on the other hand, I feel like this should be rather a comment or a new answer even.

I see such edits often, too. My personal opinion is that unless it is a community-answer, one shouldn't touch the actual content of a post made by another user, doesn't matter whether it is to add or subtract anything despite little form changes like formatting or typo corrections.

A post belongs to some specific user and this user is also responsible for the content posted.

Each and every user also has different opinions and experience as well as knowledge to a specific thing. Maybe (and this is not a rare case) the original author does not agree with the addition. Then you have a lot of trouble to deescalate the situation from not becoming rude or abusive.

If the author wanted to, there is a way to allow to bring new content to the answer by making it a community answer. If it isn't a community answer, then don't touch it.

Also consider the case when the added content is wrong. The post can get downvotes and the original author loses reputation points, maybe privileges and even badges although s/he never contributed the things, the downvotes were for.

Content changing contributions by anyone else are IMHO inappropriate.

Now the SO guidelines actually do not forbid doing so, but I in my opinion I think it does not fit into to the frame, because it can be harmful.

Does it actually mess with the integrity of the post itself?

Yes.

Should one allow any change, but formatting and re-tagging anyway? Because in a way it may have side effects or the purpose of an edit was because of misinterpretation or just because it is outdated in a way.

As said above it is allowed but that doesn't mean it is appropriate. Changing content because you think it is outdated or was made by misinterpretation shouldn't be done. What if you're wrong?

If you feel that a post is to be changed by its content, write it as suggestion as comment under the post.

If you find out something new or you have a different solution that might be better, then post it as a new answer. Do not change an existing answer.

Actually, if we accept a change like this or something similar, the OP could revert the changes, couldn't they?

They get notified usually, but problem is when they didn't saw the notification or lost in under the amount of notifications. Or the user is an active member anymore or even deleted its account.

Would they actually notice it and change it back or would the change, in case it is harmful, just stay there for eternity? What if the OP left the community?

They got notified but we will never know if he will react. So don't do it nor approve such edits.

(from the comments) Yes it is different, but the question asked for the latter actually, so this was probably some kind of workaround in the first place.

If the style of the question changes or another concern is added recently is completely irrelevant. If one wants to answer a more recent question added than s/he should do it with an own post as to change an elder answer.


Summary:

Don't approve such edits. It's inappropriate and the potential is too great that it will causing more harm than that it is useful.

4
  • Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I will keep this in mind. In fact, I agree with you. I felt the same but I wanted to hear some other opinions.
    – F. Müller
    Commented Aug 14, 2020 at 13:27
  • I have made edits before that didn't add "new" information but attempted to make the existing answer more useful. I ended up regretting it for all these reasons and because they made the answer wordy, so that it would have gotten fewer upvotes.
    – Noumenon
    Commented Aug 14, 2020 at 19:51
  • @F.Müller It's always beneficial to back up one's thoughts. Don't feel afraid to ask. Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 16:56
  • @RobertSsupportsMonicaCellio Well, I don't. Besides, I love to understand and learn how stuff works. Most of the time I have a really strong feeling about what is good for me, sometimes for others, but I obviously cannot rely on that alone. That's why this post even exists.
    – F. Müller
    Commented Aug 15, 2020 at 17:02

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .