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I know a new flow for new users asking questions was put in place, but unfortunately that seems to be disregarded by some users. Take this question, for example. It was asked under the C# tag within the last hour or so.

enter image description here

The title is simply the error message, as is the question body. It's a generic error, so it can happen in lots of places. No effort has been made by the asker to provide details of what they're trying to achieve, what they did to get this error, no code has been provided, let alone a verifiable example, etc. The question has no information whatsoever that anyone could use to help them.

This is a pretty extreme example, but this isn't an isolated incident in the C# tag, and it's probably pretty common across the site as a whole.

Often I see questions that either:

  1. Are a description of what the user wants to do, but no effort has been made.
  2. Present code only, with no information as to what's wrong.
  3. Present a description of a problem, but no code with which we can reproduce the problem or diagnose the cause.

This leads me to wonder what expectations such users have of the site. Is there anything more that can be done to help these users post good first questions and have a good experience on the site?

Should there be a review process for first questions, separate from the main set of questions, that allows users to get feedback in a "safe" environment? Or is that just moving the problem?

Should users be required to demonstrate their understanding of what constitutes a good question before posting (i.e. a test to see if they read How to Ask and the like)?

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    No matter how much work SO puts into guiding new users there is always going to be some who ignores all of it and just rushes to post garbage. They don't want to be helped and I think there's a point where it's unreasonable to expect anyone to guide them more than we already try to do. We have to expect some engagement and actual interest in site guidelines, even from new users.
    – ivarni
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 8:03
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    honestly, when I see such question I would simply prefer that the user leave the site and use another forum. With all the effort put on the Wizard and all the effort put to show different help links, you should at lest do a tiny effort to write a good question. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 8:03
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    Stop answering the bad ones.
    – jonrsharpe
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 8:04
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    @ivarni As much as I hate the kind of bad questions that these users ask, they've clearly come to SO seeking help. They've gone to the effort of signing up and asking a question, even if it's a terrible one. I'd like to think they could be helped if their questions were in better shape. Given that I see these kinds of things daily in the C# tag, I've come to the conclusion that the fault isn't 100% with the user posting the question (even if I personally think giving as much information as needed is "common sense"). Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 8:04
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    @John "They've gone to the effort of signing up and asking a question" that is a VERY low bar. And the specific question you use as an example hardly requires any effort at all. Is this the level of effort we should expect here? Enter an email in a form and then copy/paste an error message into two text boxes without even googling it, then submit?
    – VLAZ
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 8:28
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    @VLAZ I'm not saying that is the level of effort we should expect. I just mean that someone who doesn't genuinely want help wouldn't go so far as to sign up to a website, which is why I'm wondering if there is something more that can be done to help them create a question that can be answered. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 8:49
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    Oh, they want help. I don't think anyone is arguing against that. They just don't want to put any more than the absolute minimal effort into getting it.
    – ivarni
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 8:51
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    Should there be a review process for first questions don't we have triage? Or do I missunderstand that queue? Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 8:58
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    @gimby so in other words: We do have a system in place, but that system needs improvement & reconsideration ... (I just googled for it and found some very good ideas, some of them are older than 3 years) Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 9:09
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    @JonasWilms there are several improvement ideas, but SE has stated they're not working on any features for core users. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 9:11
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    @John: "if there is something more that can be done to help them create a question that can be answered.". Yes, there is a lot more we can do. One is just to set expectations, e.g. that Stack Overflow is not a forum or a chat room (no opening message and then a lot of back and forth to arrive at something useful). Another is that the minimal effort attitude just won't cut it. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 9:11
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    @zoe I'm currently considering asking my first question here, titled "StackOverflow vs StackOverflow - How can we as a community improve the relationship with the company?" .. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 9:44
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    @deceze - maybe a chat window would help, and on the other end would be a bot. Maybe we could get users talking to each other without knowing it. This has led me to the most cynical thought, but it might be worth something: absolutely any activity that takes up a user's time is beneficial to the site if it keeps that person busy. Every minute they're doing something else, they're not asking a question. If the activity seems related to asking questions but delays them, that could reduce the number of questions asked. Commented Jul 13, 2019 at 2:25
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    It's legitimately ironic that this is marked as a duplicate of a question from… five years ago.
    – john-hen
    Commented Jul 13, 2019 at 23:39

3 Answers 3

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History likes to repeat itself around this time of year, although I'll admit it's about a month and change early this time around.

In my opinion, the site sets only implicit expectations, but does little to reinforce them. The UX from interacting between people is inconsistent nonexistent, since there are users who would rather thumb their nose at any given question if it doesn't have all of The Things™, there are some who would answer any question, and then, somewhere in the middle, exists a realistic middle ground. You can get any one of these three types of experiences at any given time, and the site isn't doing much (except maybe wagging a finger) to really make that consistent.

Take this box on the corner of the "Ask a Question" post.

enter image description here

In laconic terms, it hits at all of the key and critical points, but it doesn't really convey what the experience would be if those are missing, nor does it really jut out at anyone who wants to ask a question.

enter image description here

(UX experts - don't get into anecdotal debates about color differences and contrast. It's demonstrably not having the intended effect.)

So...the site gives you a box to ask your question. If you happen to have a certain rep level, you get put into "guided mode". We don't really know how well that's going, honestly, so once again, we have to look at the kinds of questions we're getting on a regular basis.


Maybe we need to stop playing this game and accept that asking questions carries an inherent amount of risk. However, this risk is - from a professional standpoint - negligible, since everyone has to ask questions in order to get the answers they need to be productive and successful.

From a social perspective, a lot of people want to be humble and ask questions because they're new to a technology, and they believe that Stack Overflow is the correct paragon of light to help guide them as they begin their journey. Thus, the risk is much higher; if someone asks a question on Stack Overflow, they run the risk of being berated and pelted with our usual spiel about question quality when all they wanted was an answer to their question.

Know this - the site isn't equipped to help people in the position of, "I'll just post my error message and some guru will swoop in and help me out." Those are the kinds of questions you just close without really thinking about. Frankly, there's not enough prose on Earth to convince people in that position of the errors of their ways.

However, this is a fatalist perspective - there's nothing we can do. We can hoop and holler and shout about quality until we're blue in the face, but if the UX continues to allow users to believe that standards aren't really front and center here, then that will be the norm until the UX changes.

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  • "... but if the UX continues to allow users to believe that standards aren't really front and center here, then that will be the norm until the UX changes." Are those standards really front and center? I would suggest that for a majority of users posting answers, they actually probably aren't. Users who care about these things are more inclined to moderate such questions, but they often get answers before being closed anyway.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:14
  • The current problem I find with the new guided mode, is that you can click "next" through each step and you can reach the last stage without having ever input anything to make up the body. And once you're there, you only need 30 characters to actually post. It does nothing to enforce quality. Commented Jul 13, 2019 at 2:43
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Making a safe environment would be a way for users with "make this for me" questions or other low-quality posts to abuse the question-asking system. The reason downvoting, closing and deleting actions/privileges exist is to scrub the site of this content. Questions that put in no effort whatsoever, like the one you posted, simply do not deserve to be on the site.

If, and only if, this system for a safe asking environment is implemented, it will be a very high-rep, or even moderator, privilege to be able to move/vote to move questions to the safe question zone, as well as move them back. There should also be a Community user task that moves highly-voted questions in the safe environment back to the main question-asking site, as well as safe question limits (1 per day?) to avoid the otherwise open gateway to abuse.

And of course, if a question is just "bad" (you know it when you see it) then close it. That's the course of action granted as a privilege, as such we should use it appropriately and remove bad questions from the site.

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    There could also be an opt-in option ("I would like some help in asking this question. I accept that it may take a little longer before it can appear on the main Stack Overflow site.") Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 9:06
  • Ooh, that's nice @PeterMortensen - another thing to add to the wizard Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 9:10
  • It would be interesting to have a separate place, like a SE site with the same scope as SO but where you can't downvote, close or delete a question. No review queues. Then we can compare. Since the only thing different between that site and SO is the moderation, it would be a good show of why there is moderation on SO.
    – KevinG
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 17:14
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    This would just invite a flood of even more questions of this quality and result in most questions going into it being left in the queue to rot. No one who is concerned about these questions wants to dedicate that much time and effort, and we don't really have enough users to pull it off. The "safe" queue would become known as a place where questions go to die, so users will stop using it. However, after they stop using it, there will already be a precedent for this increased flow of LQ posts. The net effects will all be negative.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:05
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    If anyone is familiar with Douglas Adams - in one of his books they launched 1/3rd of a planet's population into space as an "evacuation," but it was really just to get rid of them. I wonder if the same concept could apply. The friendly, ultra-welcoming site is just a place to send people. Instead of saying, "We can't help you," it becomes, "Go to this other site." Could it work? Sure, the answers would be awful, but you could give people points for every answer, no downvotes, so someone would go there and answer. It wouldn't be great, but that wouldn't be the point anyway. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 22:16
  • This sounds a lot like the Code Golf Sandbox. My issue with it (and it may be different on a high traffic site like SO) is that I rarely receive any useful feedback when I post there. I stopped using it because I'd post a trial question in the sandbox, wait a couple days (and get little to no usable feedback), then just post it anyways. We would need to ensure that the volume could be kept manageable, or we'd just end up with another overloaded queue. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 23:59
  • @ScottHannen sounds good. I suggest deleting/recreating the honeypot site every month:) Commented Jul 13, 2019 at 20:38
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I believe the answer is to introduce a dedicated area for "beginner" / "home work" questions that is automatically applied to all people who ask questions and have less than 500 reputation (or so).

This area is different from normal StackOverflow in the following ways:

  • Questions are hidden from searches, search engines and only appear in the Beginner tab. (Most of us are tired of the low quality questions)
  • Questions cannot be downvoted below zero. (We want to prevent a first post being a terrible experience)
  • Answers to these questions earn automatically 5 points even without upvote. (We want to encourage people to help beginners)
  • Edit and comments to these questions are allowed with less reputation than usual and earn 1 reputation each.
  • Anybody with more than 1000 reputation (or so) can remove the beginner area flag from a question (Great questions might be the question somebody asks on their first post).
  • People with more than 500 reputation don't automatically land in the "beginner" / "homework" section anymore but can choose to post their question there (in case of homework questions).
  • In the beginner section it is discouraged to close questions and answer them by referring to existing questions/answers. (The beginner section encourages other beginners to engage and encourages to focus on individual question rather than the most comprehensive or factual answer).

I am torn if the beginner section should have a quota of having to answer questions to be allowed to ask any. I believe of lot of programmer's that are really new cannot answer questions, because they have still such a wrong mental model of everything that they can't even search for their problem (that's why the ask questions on SO). But giving beginner's something to do would be appropriate.

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    We've been through this a dozen times. There is no fundamental difference between a homework question or a beginner question as opposed to a question from someone who simply doesn't provide all of the details. It is well within the scope of reason for a question from either of those categories to be well-formed and fit our question standards.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:14
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    I disagree. These questions should just be deleted after 30 days. They often don't have an objective answer and we should not require them to fulfill these standards. A beginner asking a question is looking for individualized help. Nothing more. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:17
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    Your suggestion would seem to result in the question not being visible to anyone to answer, meaning no one could answer it. Furthermore, automatically granting reputation and preventing downvotes is an absolutely terrible idea. We are not here to pander to users' feelings. Reputation is supposed to represent positive contributions to the site, which is certainly not the case for any of the questions this post is discussing.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:17
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    There are people without (SO) reputation that aren't beginners ... Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:17
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    That is patently false. A beginner can ask a well-formed question, just like an expert can ask a poorly formed question. Stereotyping by level of perceived skill is a waste of time.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:18
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    @JonasWilms: That's why it should be trivial easy to remove the flagging of beginner questions. If people ask good questions they quickly move over 500 reputation. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:19
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    "A beginner asking a question is looking for individualized help. Nothing more." That is exactly the problem. That isn't what SO exists for. SO is built to curate useful information and uses questions only as a means to prompt its documentation, not personally tell every first year programming student how to create a list. That's what classes and tutors exist for.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:19
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    @jpmc26 It must be worth it to help people with beginner questions, otherwise nobody would do it. At the moment, nobody benefits and just everyone is mad that these questions even exist. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:20
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    @jpmc26 A beginner sandbox would help to address this very visible / annoying tendency of people to still show up at SO even though we give them a -7 downvote. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:23
  • @ChristopherOezbek "It must be worth it to help people with beginner questions, otherwise nobody would do it." People derive perceived benefit from doing it, yes. However, they're contributing to the dilution of SO's useful information pool in doing so. They're not benefiting the site's goal or future readers; they're benefiting themselves according to their own agenda, whether that's simply acquiring reputation, giving themselves a warm and fuzzy feeling, or whatever else.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:23
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    @jpmc26 That's why I believe we must hide these low quality questions. Let people deal with it who are charitable for reputation pennies. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:30
  • This is a duplicate proposal: meta.stackoverflow.com/q/252781/1233251
    – E_net4
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:31
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    @ChristopherOezbek If you're going to forbid downvotes, you should just remove voting and reputation from them entirely. It's too open to abuse to allow them to gain reputation without the possibility of losing it. The result of doing that, though, will be that many, many of these people won't bother answering them. As for "pennies," no. People can and do get thousands of reputation points by quickly "answering" large quantities of low quality questions.
    – jpmc26
    Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:31
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    @jpmc26 Reputation is a core driver of engagement on SO, not utilizing it to encourage good behavior would be a waste. Just move every badge / achievement 500 up, put in a couple of limits how much can be earned. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:33
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    @E_net4theClose-voter Yeah, it's a little sad that such a proposal (and mine) gets so badly hit, when it is pretty clear that a policy split / tiering would make SO much more inhabitable for many. Even just the homework questions. Commented Jul 12, 2019 at 21:37

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