17

This was the revision:

https://stackoverflow.com/posts/53024422/revisions

I thought it would be useful to provide reference docs for the property in question.

17
  • 60
    I doubt w3schools is authoritative enough to be called documentation. If anything, the W3C/WGCSS specification is the documentation.
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 29, 2018 at 18:36
  • 45
    That's not official documentation on the subject, it's a private site, unaffiliated with the thing you're looking to document, and one that has a fairly poor reputation.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 29, 2018 at 18:37
  • 15
    meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/280478/why-not-w3schools-com
    – user2285236
    Commented Oct 29, 2018 at 18:37
  • 9
    Also note it's only really valuable to link to the documentation if there's something specific about what's there that you want to discuss or ask about. Just linking to the documentation when you don't actually have anything about it to ask about isn't helpful at all, it's just noise. Now if you quoted what was there, and asked a question about that quote, that would be different.
    – Servy
    Commented Oct 29, 2018 at 18:38
  • 8
    @ayhan That was from 2014, and W3Fools says they no longer have problems. I like the navigation on it better, and it's better for quick reference. I don't see how being a private site is relevant.
    – Chloe
    Commented Oct 29, 2018 at 18:44
  • @Chloe I use that website as a reference myself but I know people who have strong opinions about it so I linked a previous discussion. That was not an endorsement. :)
    – user2285236
    Commented Oct 29, 2018 at 18:51
  • 6
    it's still a terrible resource, but i'd consider such an edit invalid. It should have at least provided the correct documentation link.
    – Kevin B
    Commented Oct 29, 2018 at 18:55
  • 7
    The information that this was your question and that you apparently wanted to link to W3Schools may sway the opinion of at least some commenters here. I certainly think it's a significant enough detail that I think you should edit it into your question. Removing a link without comment does indeed seem rude to me; at the very minimum, the edit comment should have stated some sort of rationale for this edit.
    – tripleee
    Commented Oct 29, 2018 at 19:04
  • 2
    @tripleee after 1000+ edits I no more think of adding comment/explanation to my edits which is probably a bad habit ... lesson learned ;) Commented Oct 29, 2018 at 19:19
  • 3
    @Chloe and W3Fools says they no longer have problems. no, they say they have largely resolved the problems. That doesn't mean there are none - the page on JSON Objects is a huge flaw it keeps being brought up to justify being wrong. Yes, it's a single example I have but it's the only one I keep seeing. It does prove that not all errors are resolved.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 7:01
  • 4
    W3Schools may have had and it may still have issues but it seems that even when they are trying to improve people still want to keep hold of the past and that is shifting the focus of this question from 'why was this link removed' to 'why is w3schools a bad site'. Every site has flaws but if one is actively trying to improve (and it has a lot) then don't condemn it right off the bat due to prior mistakes. Sure, you can advise to take it with a pinch of salt but people go overboard.
    – Script47
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 12:07
  • 2
    @vlaz: No documentation is completely free of errors. If that's what you're expecting in order for a reference source to be authoritative, prepare to be disappointed.
    – Robert Harvey Mod
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 16:05
  • 3
    @Chloe "they no longer have problems" - I disagree. I have three posts that are wholly or partly about w3schools on Stack Overflow - stackoverflow.com/a/52355253/1709587, stackoverflow.com/a/46866568/1709587, and stackoverflow.com/q/20610930/1709587 - and in every case, w3schools was making a factually incorrect claim, and in every case, that claim is still live. So I, at least, still do not trust them.
    – Mark Amery
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 16:42
  • 1
    @Clint the link doesn't show research, because it doesn't even reference the information contained. The relationship is akin to "this isn't what I want, here's a link of the thing that I'm using that doesn't do what I want".
    – Braiam
    Commented Oct 31, 2018 at 16:34
  • 1
    W3Schools suffer from a very effective campaign against them. True story: A requiter once told me not to click on W3S search results in google during a shared-screen interview, because the interviewers will disqualify me. This is just dumb. They are not any less accurate than a random blog. IMO they have great beginner-level content, which tends to be more approachable (even if strictly less accurate) than MDN.
    – Kobi
    Commented Nov 1, 2018 at 10:01

3 Answers 3

52

I made this edit for two reasons:

  • W3schools is not an official documentation or specification. It's good to avoid sharing links from this site pretending it's the documentation because we may find errors there. Better rely on MDN or the official specification (I know it's not easy to dig into the specification but it remains the only reliable source).
  • The most important reason is that it's irrelevant (at least for me) to share the documentation link since the problem is related to a specific browser and not how the property works. It's clear that the code works fine so sharing the documentation of the property is a kind of noise to the question as I don't see what it will add to the question. (again it's my opinion)

I probably made the mistake to omit the explanation of my edit which is a bad habit on my side, I assume it.


UPDATE

To make things clear, I am not arguing that we need to automatically delete any links which is not related to an official source (blog posts, personnal website, etc). As stated above, the important reason for this deletion was the fact that this link is irrelevant and simply add noise to the question. Even if the OP shared the official link from the specification I would have delete it.

In other situation, where a link to any external website may be relevant, I will simply comment if I think that the source is not good or not reliable. (Ex: 8-digit hex is not a background-color value)

16
  • 29
    W3schools is not an official documentation or specification well, neither is MDN. So I don't think "being unofficial" should be a reason for removing something. Considering that almost all answers here would also be classed as "unofficial". Now being unreliable (which W3Schools is) is much better grounds for removing links.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 6:45
  • 5
    @vlaz I said better rely on MDN because MDN always link to the official specification at the end of each article and it's almost a copy/paste from the specification. Then the main reason of the deletion was the second one. I never automatically delete w3schools links when a link to a doc is needed (I usually comment) But when the link to the documentation is useless in the question I delete it even if it is the official specification (like explained here). Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 8:29
  • 3
    I was disagreeing with W3Schools being "unofficial" as reasoning. Because that shouldn't be a driving factor - as I said, MDN itself is unofficial - most answer are, too. Discriminating against "unofficial" defeats the purpose of the Q&A website. Again, being unreliable is a better ground for removing sources. I've seen official documentation that is wrong and thus unreliable. If there is an "unofficial" blog post or a GitHub page that demonstrates behavior properly and/or illustrates the error in the docs, then the unofficial sources should be perfectly acceptable.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 9:15
  • 8
    @vlaz Because that shouldn't be a driving factor it should be when the OP said it's the documentation. You can link to any website you want, I my self do this a lot of time as you may find better explanation/illustration within some blog posts but we shouldn't say this is the documentation. Linknig to w3schools is fine. Linking to w3schools saying it's the documentation is not fine. Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 9:19
  • 4
    @vlaz MDN board members are from W3C, Mozilla, Google, Microsoft and Samsung. While it might not be official as W3C, it the easily readable doc that sticks to the official one. Ref(list of board members at last): blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/10/18/…
    – Kolappan N
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 9:54
  • @TemaniAfif so, if I link to MDN and say "it's the documentation" that link should also be removed, because it's not official? Besides, the wording is 99% correct - the page may not be the documentation but it is documentation. Yes, meaning is different but it could be a typo or ESL issue. Are you suggesting those reasons are enough to start removing links? Again - I don't think "unofficial" should be a factor. I am fully for the removal of the link as it was indeed irrelevant. I just don't think "it was unofficial" is a good justification.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 10:15
  • 2
    @KolappanNathan MDN is a public wiki. As such, you can edit it yourself. Are you a member of any of those corporations? I'm not. I'm allowed to participate with contributions. Besides, you're missing the point - it's about "unofficial" being the justification. If you think MDN is "official" to be an allowed resource, then what SO itself? If I link to a different answer, would you remove that link solely because it's "unofficial"? Or if I link to a GitHub repo or another website?
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 10:19
  • 3
    @vlaz again, the reason to automatic deletion without any explanation is the fact that it add nothing to the question, so even if it's the official specification I will also remove it in such case.... In other situation where a link may be relevant I won't delete it it even if the OP said this is the documentation and he linked to his personnal website. here is one example where I simply commented to highlight this : stackoverflow.com/questions/52930543/… Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 10:21
  • 2
    @TemaniAfif right, and not because it's "unofficial". Because that has been the entire thing I was disagreeing with. You put it first in your list of reasons of removing the link and I don't think it should really be there. You are literally saying "W3Schools is unofficial, therefore you should use the other unofficial resource". Can you say for definite if "being unofficial" should be grounds for removing links? Because you very much make it sound like it is while recommending an unofficial source. I think the real issue is about unreliable and irrelevant rather being formal or not.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 10:31
  • @vlaz well, english is my 3rd langage so the mean of wording may not sounds the same to me. I think the intention of my answer was clear ... I said w3school is not the documentation or the specification (this is true) then I used simple word to express my opinion: I said it's good to avoid and better rely. I didn't say we should never use or we should always delete .. Then my focus was the second part that's why I said the most important reason ... Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 10:42
  • 1
    "well, neither is MDN" @vlaz when MSDN lazily started to redirect to MDN it became the de facto go to.
    – Knu
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 11:29
  • 4
    @Knu why is everybody so defensive over MDN? It's like being called "unofficial" is an insult, instead of a neutral statement of reality. It is not written and maintained only by the official people responsible for defining the behavior of HTML and JS. You and I can both contribute to it. That makes it unofficial. You know, exactly like this very website - not every answer comes from an authoritative sources - you and I can both contribute to SO. Does that mean that SO is a bad source? No - the majority of time it isn't. Same deal with MDN - it's a community wiki but it's high quality.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 12:01
  • 1
    @vlaz: mfw everybody is misunderstanding your position
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 13:56
  • 2
    @Kolappan Nathan: It's still by and large community-contributed and -maintained - with all the imperfections and errors that come with having a community project. The CSSWG and the W3C member reps have their hands full working on the specifications, test suites, and implementations as it is. They do not write (and are not responsible for) the majority of the content you see on MDN.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 13:57
  • 1
    For what it's worth, this kind of explanation ("W3Schools is not official or reliable documentation, and it shouldn't be linked to like it is") is exactly what the edit comments are for. Do you push git commits with empty messages, too?
    – Nic
    Commented Oct 31, 2018 at 22:55
8

I thought it would be useful to provide reference docs for the property in question.

Sure! But it would have been better to highlight what part of the behaviour being observed was contradicting that documentation. This could still be a valuable thing to add, if it actually is, but please link to official MDN more heavily scrutinized and reliable sources, or even the actual w3 recommendation draft.

W3schools not being an official source such an heavily scrutinized source of documentation, makes it an easy target for removal when it's not really useful for the question, and it being contradicted could be argued not to actually mean anything.

4
  • 11
    MDN isn't the official documentation for CSS, that would be w3.org. MDN is just a lot more reliable than w3schools for a number of reasons.
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 4:14
  • 2
    link to official MDN sources official in what capacity? Because MDN is a public wiki - it advertises itself as "For developers, by developers" because of the open community contribution it has. Every single page has a list of community contributors - for example, the CSS background page lists 47 of them.
    – VLAZ
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 6:48
  • 2
    @TinyGiant MDN's board members are from W3C, Mozilla, Google, Microsoft and Samsung. While it might not be official as W3.org, it the easily readable doc that sticks to the official one and is reliable. Ref(list of board members at last): blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/10/18/…
    – Kolappan N
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 9:59
  • 2
    @KolappanNathan How is "While it might not be official as W3.org, it the easily readable doc that sticks to the official one and is reliable." different from "MDN isn't the official documentation for CSS, that would be w3.org. MDN is just a lot more reliable than w3schools for a number of reasons." You're saying that it is not official, but it is reliable which is exactly what I said, with the added note that it is more readable.
    – user4639281
    Commented Oct 30, 2018 at 23:56
6

Was the link strictly necessary? No.
Would I have removed it? No.

For me, having it gives me insight in which source OP used, and allows me not only to answer the core question, but also to help them use their source of information better, or refer them to a different one if I think it's really bad.

And even if it didn't feel strictly useful to me, I think one should always be very reserved about removing information from questions that OP thought was important for context.

In this particular situation I would not have deleted this link from the question, because it tells me that the asker has actually searched for this and studied some source of documentation, immediately suppressing the temptation to leave an RTFM comment.

It also tells me what that source was, so I could check it, and maybe find the cause of any misconception that may have caused OP to use the property incorrectly.

So, I don't think it hurts at all to have the link in there, since it may just be useful. And if turns out not to be, it can just as easily be ignored by anyone answering the question.

2
  • 5
    It's the phrasing "the documentation" that bothers some people, particularly the article "the" if not just "documentation" alone. It implies that W3Schools is the authoritative source (even if the article isn't emphasized, it's implied to mean that way given no other context), which it isn't. Not helping is the fact that this stems from an actual mistaken belief that it is the documentation. I would not have removed the link outright either - I would simply have opted to change the wording.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 31, 2018 at 8:25
  • 4
    And/or comment on that wording, so the user is also helped by learning that "the documentation" is not actually the documentation.
    – GolezTrol
    Commented Oct 31, 2018 at 9:22

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .