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This is not a duplicate of Is it OK to ask a question looking for better ways to do things?

That question asks

Is it OK to ask a question looking for better ways to do things?

while this question asks

How should we be advising users asking too broad or unclear how-to questions while not implying that such questions require code?

The questions are on two completely different topics, ask very different things, and none of the answers to that question would make any sense as answers to this question.


Differentiating between debugging questions and how-to questions with code

Debugging questions and how-to questions with code can sometimes look very similar. I think that the important distinction to be made is in the code contained in the question, more than the prose of the question itself.

If the code in the question is expected to achieve the result but does not function as expected, it is a debugging question. The object of the question is to determine why the code is not functioning as expected and how to fix it.

If the code in the question functions as expected but does not achieve the desired result due to missing the vital piece of logic that is being asked about, it is a how-to question with code. It is important to note that how-to questions do not require code, but when people ask "what have you tried?", this is what they are explicitly asking for. What they actually mean is

This question is too broad. You should break down the problem into its component parts and attempt to solve each separately. Once you have figured out the more specific part that you're having a problem with, you can come back and ask a more specific question about that.

Ideally, the user would leave, conquer the low-hanging fruit of the problem, and come back with a good frame for the solution while making the real problem abundantly clear. It is still important to note that breaking down the problem into its component parts is the pathway to the more specific question, and it is entirely possible that one might end up being able to describe the more specific problem adequately without the use of code.


The more specific problem.

Due to the fact that how-to questions with code look so much like debugging questions, or even that many people see how-to questions as debugging questions that are lacking an mcve, we have been kind of lacking on our advice to users asking how-to questions with or without code. For the longest time the most common advice for any how-to question was "what have you tried?" until that phrase was banned.

So I would like to start a discussion on the topic.

How should we be advising users asking too broad or unclear how-to questions while not implying that such questions require code?

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    I think part of the problem is that, based on a lot of comments I've seen, some people either don't understand or don't accept that how-to questions are on-topic at all because they seem to think that the purpose of the site is to answer debugging questions. Commented Jun 26, 2018 at 18:35
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    Possible duplicate of Is it OK to ask a question looking for better ways to do things? Commented Jun 26, 2018 at 19:56
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    @ivan_pozdeev seriously? For the third time now, that is a completely different question on an entirely different topic with a bunch of irrelevant answers that don't come close to answering this question. You call that a duplicate?
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 26, 2018 at 19:58
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    @ivan_pozdeev So you want to close an entire discussion as a duplicate because something that you wrote on a different topic in an answer to a completely different question is tangentially relevant?
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 26, 2018 at 20:06
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    When I run across a question asking for the "best"/"fastest"/"most performant" way to do x, i ask for the appropriate metric: smallest memory footprint, fastest first result, fewest disk reads, least programming effort, ... . The intent is to get the OP to ponder what they are really trying to optimize.
    – HABO
    Commented Jun 26, 2018 at 21:34
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    This isn't about questions asking how to do something better / faster / what have you. It is about questions asking how to achieve the desired result. One is code-review, the other is how-to. @HABO or am I misunderstanding what you're trying to say?
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 26, 2018 at 21:51
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    @HABO I still don't understand how that applies to how-to questions which are a different type of question from the code review questions you're talking about. You're talking about "how do I make this code that does X faster / better / what-have-you?" Whereas I'm talking about "how do I do X?".
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 27, 2018 at 4:16
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    I frequently see questions asking "How do I do X?", where there's a function or functions that do exactly X, but which the OP has never heard of, and the regulars say "We can't help you, you need to show us code first", and the OP says "I can't write the code, I don't know how to!" So it's a stalemate. Me, I'm happy to give them the pointer they need, if I know, although in doing so I realize I'm failing to properly discourage the OP for not asking a "good" question. Commented Jun 27, 2018 at 21:11
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    Aren't How-to/How-do questions a magnet for opinionated answers? My way of doing things wouldn't necessarily be the way others would approach the same scenario thus generating opinionated based responses for the question. Commented Jun 28, 2018 at 0:29
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    @hungrykoala a question is not primarily opinion based because more than one answer is valid. The whole reason we allow multiple answers is to get different approaches. Otherwise it would be wikipedia.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 28, 2018 at 1:26
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    @hungrykoala I recommend reading Good subjective, bad subjective for more information on primarily opinion based.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 28, 2018 at 3:29
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    @TinyGiant I'll give that a read. I always mark questions on how-to as too-broad/opinion if the OP didn't bother trying to come up with a plausible solution and just dumping their problem on SO. Commented Jun 28, 2018 at 4:06
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    @hungrykoala that's an improper use of such close reasons. Those questions are on-topic, they just have to be reasonably scoped. That means the question must be asking to solve one thing, not 7. Posting the description of a program would be too broad, asking how to accomplish a task is not.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 28, 2018 at 14:08
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    @feelingunwelcome that is not within the scope of this discussion. If you would like the community to provide you with examples of well defined and reasonably scoped how to questions, I suggest asking a meta question on the topic.
    – user4639281
    Commented Jun 29, 2018 at 16:35
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    How can you ask for feedback with no agreed upon semantic for what well defined and reasonably scoped means to you. It is pretty clear what it means to the community and you seem to disagree and that the community is getting it wrong. I am trying to help you clarify to us what you are wanting to hear. I suggest that you consider Shog9's "Apples" analogy of "What is NAA?" and give something similar to set the constraints/expectations of what you are looking for feedback/discussion on.
    – user177800
    Commented Jun 29, 2018 at 16:53

2 Answers 2

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You asked how to communicate this. If you want to advise posters how they can improve their question, your suggested wording looks quite helpful to me:

This question is too broad. You should break down the problem into its component parts and attempt to solve each separately. Once you have figured out the more specific part that you're having a problem with, you can come back and ask a more specific question about that.

It's also important that such questions specify requirements and evaluation criteria for proposed solutions that (1) allow readers to evaluate proposed answers (so we don't have a large number of answers that are all equally valid), and (2) allow answerers to know what solutions will count as satisfactory. Depending on the question, that might be a separate point that could be helpful to explain to posters.

Will this actually work? Who knows. Be prepared for the possibility that much of the time you might be blowing against the wind and these kinds of comments might have little effect. Nonetheless, if you are comfortable with that, you can still try and see what happens. It might help the poster, and if nothing else, it helps communicate and establish the norms and expectations on this site.

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    This is such a good question it answered itself!
    – NH.
    Commented Jun 26, 2018 at 22:16
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    such comments are better than downvoting/closing the question without explanation.(you can comment AND DV/close anyway) Commented Jun 29, 2018 at 5:16
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How should we be advising users asking too broad or unclear how-to questions while not implying that such questions require code?

The current Unclear guidance does not insinuate that code is required.

Please clarify your specific problem or add additional details to highlight exactly what you need. As it's currently written, it’s hard to tell exactly what you're asking. See the How to Ask page for help clarifying this question.

Anything more verbose but still generic enough to apply to all questions will still be just that generic but now it will be more verbose and more likely ignored or mis-interpreted.

How to Ask already states Not all questions benefit from including code. But if your problem is with code you've written, you should include some..

It could be more prominent but that is already in there. Probably ignored because of the wall of text lack of whitespace that that page has become. As someone with a professional education and background in typography and graphic design, it is understandable why it might get ignored/lost in today's 3 sec attention span instant gratification age. That is if people even click on the link.

There is a balance between terse/verbose and generic/specific that is very hard to keep.

I would argue that anything more verbose that would move the dial in helping any given question would have to be so specific to the question that it would be useless for any other question ( ignoring duplicates ) and be so expensive to write up that most people would not have any incentive to do anything than what they do now.

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