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Yesterday a new update showed up on the Stack Overflow blog: Rolling out the Welcome Wagon: June Update.

Among the updates of things that are marked as Done, one really caught my eye:

Built an “Unwelcoming or snarky” comments classification app

Our users have always been really great at flagging and removing outright abusive comments, but we’ve long struggled to deal with (or even define clearly) lower-key unpleasantness: condescension, snark, dismissiveness. We just finished our first step to change that: 57 employees provided 13,742 ratings of “fine,” “unwelcoming or snarky,” or “abusive,” on random comments on SO, and we’ll be sharing the initial results and our next steps in a separate post.

This is an interesting concept. Catching those comments that aren't right out rude and abusive, but are still mildly insulting or snarky or otherwise unwelcoming. And they evaluated more than 10,000 comments; that's a lot of time and effort dedicated to this task, so Stack Overflow Inc must have some pretty good plans for this data they've amassed.

So now that we can detect "Snarky" comments (and these other unwelcoming but not quite abusive comments), what are we planning to do with them? Are they going to become flag worthy? Will there be some kind of penalty against repeatedly snarky users? And if we are going to be penalized for what may be intended as friendly banter, could we get a solid definition about what Snark is so that we can slide under the radar with our sarcasm avoid penalties? Will the results be made available to facilitate a Hunting of the Snark bi-weekly poetry contest?

For anyone actually in the "know" of what Stack Overflow has planned for this information, if Stack Overflow is ready to release those plans, please do share. Though for anyone else, I'm also interested in what you would like to be done with this information. Any ideas of how we could make use of the "Unwelcoming or snarky" comments classification app?

(My idea is a Snark by the Hour live feed so I can enjoy the sarcasm and snark of my favorite Stack Overflow users in real time, but that's just me).

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    Wouldn't it just auto-flag or outright reject them? Commented Jun 22, 2018 at 7:15
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    @halfer it isn't, i don't think anyone has ever claimed it was surprising. The way I see it this is more of a response to Stack Overflow has to continuously be targeted by this kind of tripe. Whoops, that was not very nice of me.
    – Gimby
    Commented Jun 22, 2018 at 8:16
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    It's difficult to design any kind of sanction or penalty that does not discriminate unfairly against minorities. If a new 1-rep burner account user posts snark, eg 'Hey, if you don't know the answer, just leave and stop bullying with the abusive and hostile downvotes', nothing effective can be done. The only set of users that are exposed to most types of sanctions is the small group of regular, higher-rep, user-moderators/curators. Commented Jun 22, 2018 at 9:30
  • From what I've heard, SO intentionally keeps the details of the qban algorithm secret to avoid people working around it. I assume that if snarky commenters had their commenting privileges reduced in some way, the internal details of that mechanism wouldn't be public for the same reason. Commented Jun 22, 2018 at 12:55
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    Wait, so if they aren't done training this data, we can all be sarcastically snarky and train their ML approach to only detect false sarcasm! Quick! Pretend to be sarcastic! Commented Jun 23, 2018 at 2:27
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    Isn't your question already addressed in the quote you provided? ...we’ll be sharing the initial results and our next steps in a separate post. seems pretty clear.
    – Ken White
    Commented Jun 23, 2018 at 20:36
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    Why 57 employees not community members? SE employees taking a survey are more likely to focus on converting leads to members (customers) than the community-driven QA of new questions.
    – Hack-R
    Commented Jun 23, 2018 at 21:46
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    Snark by the hour?! Let's make this happen. If anyone has a snarkiness-clasifier that (s)he wants to put to good use, feel free to drop me a line... github.com/Niellles/snark-by-the-hour
    – Niellles
    Commented Jul 5, 2018 at 20:41

2 Answers 2

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Probably next reasonable thing to do would be to find out how to quickly detect and delete* blatant homework dumps. (To preempt inevitable questions, no, triage fails to do that job).

This would serve our eternal battle against snark as follows:

  1. Radically cutting amount of snarky comments because, well, if the question is deleted there will be no way to post such comments.
  2. For the same reason as above, preventing building a habit of posting snarky comments by site regulars who get frustrated by a flood of homework dumps. Probably worth noting that it gets only worse because other regulars tolerate and even are tempted to upvote such comments (myself I am guilty as charged).
  3. Because of two points listed above it would be easier (probably much easier) to find and fight snarky comments in remaining questions.

Hopefully this would help to make Stack Overflow more welcoming.

Because honestly I can't see how it could be done while site is flooded by low quality content. How can we expect of users to be concerned about snarky comments in regular questions when they totally naturally learn to just nod and smile seeing snark in comments under multiple homework dumps.


* With regards to quicker deletion, a less effort consuming alternative could be more efficient use of already existing system features, for example system could just push detected homework dumps into close queue immediately and prioritize them to be at the top of it, so that close worthy ones are handled quicker. I doubt that snarky commenting on closed question is attractive (when there is already a big close banner explaining what's wrong with it). Not to mention that closed questions tend to get less views, meaning even if snark leaks in it has less chances to spread wider.

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    I find that the snark behind homework questions isn't related to the quality of the questions, but because they're homework questions at all. It'd be better to purge comments who go out of their way to insult users who post homework questions.
    – Makoto
    Commented Jun 23, 2018 at 18:19
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    @Makoto purging comments is the way we tried for many years already, and I supported it for as long as I could until I lost hope that it can work. Quoting self, "...how come that after years of plugging users' mouths and twisting their arms with summers of love and hunting the snark, the second-highest-voted question at MSO is Why is Stack Overflow so negative of late? Makes one wonder if this way works, doesn't it?"
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 23, 2018 at 18:24
  • someone proposed (jokingly) that all questions should be started as "closed". Another way to avoid the snark. Commented Jun 23, 2018 at 20:02
  • that was only a joke, of course. Commented Jun 23, 2018 at 20:05
  • @Jean-FrançoisFabre where was this proposal? Commented Jun 24, 2018 at 3:02
  • it was proposed by Martin James at SOCVR and was starred multiple times. chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/42880093#42880093 Commented Jun 24, 2018 at 8:16
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    Why only "homework dump" instead of the more general "low-quality or off-topic"?
    – user202729
    Commented Jun 24, 2018 at 14:08
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    @user202729 first of all, because people tend to be angrier about these, it's kind of poisonous, spreading frustration and snark. Besides, I believe there is a good chance to identify these automatically - as opposed to general case of questions that are inappropriate
    – gnat
    Commented Jun 24, 2018 at 14:19
  • They will probably delete the snarky comments, not the questions such comments are made under.
    – TylerH
    Commented Jul 4, 2018 at 14:41
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I hadn't heard about this snark hunt, but I'll venture an opinion about the types of comments that we might want to discourage if we're serious about being more welcoming.

In a nutshell, I'd say it boils down to discouraging comments that tease or belittle a questioner for asking something that the snarker feels is beneath him.

If you see a question that:

  • is an obvious request for doing someone's homework
  • betrays a pretty severe lack of clue about the programming language or other technology being asked about
  • is super basic and has been asked 1,000 times already
  • could have been answered by a simple Google search
  • contributes nothing to our repository of high-quality answers
  • no one will ever ask again

... you should generally keep your opinions to yourself. You can downvote the question, you can vote to close it, you can politely suggest some alternative course of action to the OP, but you should not leave snarky comments.

The reason not to leave snarky comments in these cases is that they do not help, and they do hurt. They do not help the OP solve his problem. They do not help discourage future posters from asking the same kinds of "bad" questions. They do contribute to the sense that SO is not welcoming towards newcomers.

The primary purpose of snarky comments, I believe, is to let the snarker feel superior to the hapless newbie, and/or to demonstrate to other snarky regulars that, yes, we still know how to recognize "bad" questions and how to put the askers in their place. But neither of those is the purpose of SO.

(Someone's going to ask for actual examples of what I'm talking about. I'm sorry, but I don't have any to present just now. If you insist that you don't know what I'm talking about, if you insist on concrete examples, I suggest that you yourself might be part of the problem we're talking about. I would urge you to take a step back, stop insisting on your right to engage in what you claim is "inoffensive banter", and start really thinking about how it might be perceived by someone who isn't a know-it-all regular like you.)


Addendum: I constructed this post wrongly, and consequently a number of people have -- quite understandably -- misunderstood it. What I was trying to say was that if you think the poster is an idiot, you should keep your opinion to yourself.

If a question isn't up to our standards, and if you can say so positively, then of course, an explanation is better than an anonymous downvote. But I think part of the 'unwelcoming' problem is that plenty of the regulars just aren't able to make such comments positively, aren't even aware of how negative their snarky comments can appear.

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