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The latest blog post has comments disabled/closed.

Just curious as to if this is on purpose or an accident.

blog

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  • 26
    As a moderator, looking at this question title, my first thought was "need you even ask?" Which just makes it all the more sad.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 14:08
  • 9
    @BoltClock That seems like circular logic. "There is a problem with women in tech. See? The comments are closed on an article about women in tech! That proves it!"
    – user773737
    Commented Oct 7, 2017 at 0:35
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    @Houseman: It's just that anyone even remotely familiar with the topic should be able to connect the dots immediately when they notice that comments to an article about the topic are closed. Kaitlin's answer - and the ensuing discussion under her answer - only solidifies this.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 7, 2017 at 5:05
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    @BoltClock The dots can be connected in different ways. Your 2 comments could've been made word for word(except 'As a moderator') by @Philip Kirkbride.
    – Oleg
    Commented Oct 7, 2017 at 21:33
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    @BoltClock To Oleg's point, the obvious answer for me was that there's misleading points that the author doesn't want the comments to make obvious. One of them, that I pointed out in a comment on an apparently-deleted answer here, was trivial to find: The linked source doesn't say what the blog post claims, even though that claim is the basis for a full paragraph.
    – Izkata
    Commented Oct 8, 2017 at 18:09
  • @Izkata: Ah, I see where you and Oleg are coming from. By the way, that answer was self-deleted. My guess is the author decided their opinion wasn't worth keeping around. Which of course isn't true, but as much as I'd like to see it stay up I'm going to respect their decision and leave it deleted.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 9, 2017 at 3:42

5 Answers 5

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This was on purpose (I personally closed them).

We were already receiving abusive comments on Twitter about this post, and I didn't want to deal with that on our own platform.

This follows a familiar pattern for us: when we've written about women in tech before, however benign, we get flooded with abusive comments. Not only is that unfortunate in and of itself, it also means that otherwise constructive, thoughtful comments get lumped in and thrown out with the abuse.

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    I understand the trouble of having to deal with abusive comments, but I find it rather useless to post a blog and disallow discussion by the readers.
    – user247702
    Commented Oct 4, 2017 at 15:53
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    This is why we can't have nice things :-(
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Oct 4, 2017 at 15:56
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    @Stijn: "I find it rather useless to post a blog and disallow discussion by the readers." Do you really go to blogs for the comments section? Commented Oct 4, 2017 at 16:07
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    Stackoverflow's unwillingness to allow open dialogue is not good Commented Oct 4, 2017 at 16:52
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    @JamesWierzba - You're posting on the site where Stack Overflow hosts more open dialogue about themselves and their policies than most sites out there. You have plenty of places to make your voice heard.
    – Brad Larson Mod
    Commented Oct 4, 2017 at 16:56
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    I assumed this was the reason. I'm sad to hear that confirmed. I'm upvoting this because I support your decision to close them. Commented Oct 4, 2017 at 16:59
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    I'm all for open dialogue, but I don't blame you. I read the replies on Twitter, and some of them are just bizarre. Commented Oct 4, 2017 at 17:02
  • 28
    Abusive or just argumentative? Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 2:10
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    I take issue with the implicit assumption in the article that a disparity of outcome is the problem for which "it’s clear that there’s work to be done." Is there also work to be done to "handle" the gender disparity in the construction industry? Or the teaching profession? Or the race disparity in professional basketball? I agree there IS work to be done, but the work to be done is to handle prejudice and bigotry in its many forms—NOT just to get women a lot of jobs in STEM fields. I'm not talking about under-representation, I'm talking about bigotry. I've seen it. It's ugly.
    – Wildcard
    Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 3:48
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    In my opinion, this is why the blog should allow only SO user comments, as opposed to allowing trollish content there. It is unfortunate that we as a community cannot voice support on the blog while anyone who wants to open an oauth account can post vitriol.
    – Travis J
    Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 4:20
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    What on earth does basketball have to do with women in tech? That's whataboutism in practice. It's perfectly possible to write about one problem without having to simultaneously mention every other perceived problem.
    – ivarni
    Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 7:02
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    @TravisJ No, all I said is that there are differences between men and women and when you see a difference in outcome the most likely explanation is that it's caused by those differences. Your interpretation that it has anything to do with what women are capable of only shows your personal hidden beliefs and if you think men and women are zepto percent different an elementary school biology class is in order.
    – Oleg
    Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 19:59
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    @TravisJ No, there are countless identifiable differences. And once again the only one who said anything about ability to develop is you. You keep bringing it up so I'm starting to think that you really think women can't develop. You should try to discover your hidden biases and work to overcome them. Misogyny is really a terrible thing.
    – Oleg
    Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 20:18
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    The blog post is not about lack of women in tech. It's about "3 ways you can be an ally to women in tech", and there's no point in allowing comments on it just so a bunch of dudes can complain because they think people shouldn't be allies to women in tech. Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 20:39
  • 32
    I'm all for women for getting jobs, but it needs to be done fairly, so that both men and women have equality of opportunity (people go through the same interviews, same level of standard). I do NOT support equality of outcomes (what companies like Facebook and Google are doing), people getting hired to fill some arbitrary quota that women in tech should be x% of the workforce, and thus lower their hiring standards. Commented Oct 6, 2017 at 2:01
1

I'm mostly surprised that comments were ever enabled on that post - perhaps it's not possible to disable them before publishing.

Any post about women (in tech) is going to attract trolls. Explicitly referencing things like the Google guy's internal memo and firing is going to make things worse. Having a buzzfeed-esque title (X things you can do to Y [more Z]) is going to make it worse (at least from me, since I am growing steadily more annoyed by the style.) Yes, cutting comments will stifle the non-troll opinions both for and against, but the moderates would probably be overrun anyway. Why not just be proactive and close the door before the crap flows in?

Maybe the article could change to be more moderate and considerate of different viewpoints (see point 3 of post in question), but I don't think that would help. There are just too many trolls, too much negative energy floating around from the Googler's internal memo, and too much unavoidable conflation with the current views of feminism - it's just not possible to be perceived as neutral by everybody on this topic at this time.

(I do think it was a mistake to call the Googler's internal memo a 'tirade'. The memo was controversial, certainly, but that should key you in to the fact that a lot of people agreed with it or at least didn't find it to be tirading. I suspect that most of the trolling and vitriol found on Twitter made reference to the memo.)

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It is not hard to understand why the comments were closed.

The people who published that post, closed down comments, and moderate this site, believe their position to be the right and moral one, and other's positions to be the wrong, offensive ones. Namely: that equality of outcome is valuable, and that men lifting women up "empowers" them.

You might not agree, but you're not the one with the "shut it down" button.

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    @Carpetsmoker He never did that. He didn't even complete his answer and explained why the comments were closed. I believe my position to be the right and moral one, and the other position to be the wrong offensive one and yet I will never prevent the opposite side from speaking.
    – Oleg
    Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 0:00
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    @Carpetsmoker I didn't get to see the comments, but if by "abusive comments" you mean offensive levels of wrong-think and disagreement with politically correct narratives, then maybe it's time to grow up a little. Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 17:14
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Because StackOverflow wants to promote a one sided political agenda based on "Diversity", or as it's actually known, repressing men and white people for the sake of promoting other "genders" and darker skinned people, because, according to their own logic, they aren't capable of getting positions through hard work.

Anybody that goes against that narrative or points out the logical fallacies in the blog post, are usually demonized as some form of troll or some form of mysogynist, KKK\Nazi extremist and are either banned or publicly shamed so they can't get work. (Usually anybody that's even a little to the Right of Karl Marx gets this treatment. It's what happened to James Demore when he published the Google memo several months back.) The original writer will say they are getting "harassed" when they are just getting salty comments they can easily block on their social media page.

It's a huge problem in the Tech industry, because a lot of social justice activists fresh from college have infiltrated the industry using buzzwords and doublethink\newspeak about "Driversity" and Feminism. They're usually called Social Justice Warriors (SJW's) and are essentially the radical Leftist version of the Alt-Right. Even using the same logic like White Privilege, which is a concept that white people have power and privileges that darker skinned people don't have. White Privilege is a belief in White Supremacy, because within their mindset white people should use their privilege\supremacy to help lift up darker skinned people (or "People of Color") to positions of power. It truly is another form of bigotry, but there's incredibly low expectations about other races.

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    You're assuming an awful lot of motive for a simple blog post. Why does every single time diversity is mentioned have to be part of a grand extreme leftist wave? Where do you get that "everybody that's even a little to the right of karl marx" gets oppressed from just a blog post? It's a blog post by stack. Have some perspective, this isn't a malicious act and your hyperbole in use here doesn't lend credence to your argument at all.
    – Magisch
    Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 9:22
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    No, I've seen a lot of blog posts like this "we promote women and Diversity". (Many tech websites are full of these.) "Diversity" IS an extreme Leftist idea where certain people HAVE to be discriminated against in order for other people who aren't qualified to get a position without earning it. It's Equality of Outcome, not Equality of Opportunity like it should be. As for the "to the right of Karl Marx", look up the James Damore Google memo interviews on YouTube. He's very Centrist and a leveled headed person, but was fired because he brought up ideas that don't "promote Diversity". Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 15:14
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    This type of stuff IS malicious, just not from your perspective. We need to get good coders in the Tech industry. Promoting someone based on their genitalia because they're being kept out of a job because "oppression", "discrimination", or some other invisible force like women are somehow being kept out when it's the most diverse its ever been, isn't a good idea. And because Diversity hiring isn't based on their ability to make good code, this is how you get overbloated, sloppy projects where you're being held back because your Diversity or token hire wasn't qualified for the position. Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 15:25
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    Truly a misguided point of view here. I guess this is what comes of people thinking they can bypass education and just learn a trade skill, or just bypassing education in general. Diversity hiring is simply the act of not discriminating against well qualified people. I could give numerous examples of people highly qualified for jobs who would not have had the opportunity due to discrimination, because there are millions if not billions of them. There is a rich history here. Sports, science, military, governance, you name it, it has a history of discriminated entry at some point.
    – Travis J
    Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 21:26
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    Anybody who's an Egalitarian who believes in the idea of a work ethic and equality of opportunity, won't discriminate in favor of or against someone because of superficial characteristics. The best person gets the job, no exceptions. Which is why I'm against this constant push for "women in tech". If women want the job, they have to qualify for it and not scream they're being "discriminated" against and demand the position because they're women. Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 22:59
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    @Oleg - I find it telling that would be the person that first comes to your mind.
    – Travis J
    Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 23:10
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    However, once hired, as the issue here, is a different story. This issue revolves around tech culture, not tech hiring practices. Pretending that a non White male got hired because they fit a quota and are not qualified is basically the mantra that leads to workplace hostility. That you simply display the traits here shows that it is still a problem.
    – Travis J
    Commented Oct 10, 2017 at 23:14
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    This site posting a blog about needing more female Diversity hires, people ARE going to suspect their new hires are there to fill seats and parade their new hires to show they're not sexist.. by being sexist and using women as props. I'm not toxic like you're implying, I use logic and can see where your own ideas are coming from. It's from this 3rd\4th wave Feminist idea that women can't do it on their own and needs activism or institutions to be put in positions of power. It's belittling to women who want to get there by hard work and don't want to be seen as a victim needing constant help. Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 2:35
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    Google apologized and I'd like to see your evidence that he's some form of bigot. Otherwise, I'm seeing here is you trying to morally grandstand that women and minorities are oppressed, can't get jobs in the tech world\are shunned away, and anybody that disagrees with you is some toxic bigot. You're not for inclusiveness here, you're for ideological conformity and the soft bigotry of low expectations in the workplace. I have my evidence why PC culture is toxic and bigoted. (Amazon even recently sent out a email with the title "Dear Diversity Hire".) Where's your evidence? Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 19:37
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    @Oleg The reason he's using "toxic" as his buzzword of choice is that he's trying to otherise and shame us because we're disagreeing with him rather than trying to argue. It's similar to how social justice activists and religious fundamentalists chant "shame! shame! shame!" as if that would help. Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 19:57
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    For example, "How would you suggest encouraging team building where a woman is 1/10?" Treat them like part of the team? I think he's trying to go for something where men and their 'toxic' behavior keep women from working in team based environments. Anybody who's a good partner and works as good as her other team mates will be accepted, despite the sex or race differences. Camaraderie through struggle. Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 20:10
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    To be honest, I am not really surprised that you guys took this route. To the point, no one should use that word or a list of other equally offensive words. Clearly you understood my reference earlier. And to note, it wasn't about one word (again with the one word fixation and missing the overall point), it was about the concept of not marginalizing, excluding, or insulting groups of people.
    – Travis J
    Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 20:20
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    "it was about the concept of not marginalizing, excluding, or insulting groups of people." Nobody is being marginalized, excluded, or insulted within many of these companies. Especially not under the law. They're coworkers there to do a job and get paid for it. They have to get to know and like their coworkers or avoid them if they don't. If someone doesn't pull their weight, they're looked down upon. If they're a token hire, people will be angry because they didn't work as hard to get a position and was discriminated in favor of their skin, genitals, or even politics. That is my entire point. Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 20:28
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    That's the entire concept against diversity hiring and the original StackOverflow blog post. Discrimination is still discrimination, except when it comes to Diversity hiring because the concept is disguised as helping "oppressed" minorities. Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 20:30
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    "The whole point of diversity hiring is to remove discrimination from the hiring process, in either direction." Where's the evidence? Strong claims need strong evidence that Human Resources departments or the leaders are looking at resumes, sees they're a minority and turn away. Where is it? If you did, it'd be grounds for an easy victory in a Civil Rights trial. As for marginalizing someone because they're probably hired for being a Diversity Hire, don't make blog posts or post ads that you're looking for token Diversity hires, and don't make people go to Diversity seminars. Commented Oct 11, 2017 at 21:02
-21

It's common for mainstream media and large websites to shutdown comments when a political agenda is being pushed.

Stack Overflow wants to encourage the narrative that the ideas of third wave feminism and radical opposition to the current USA president are generally accepted in the development community.

Allowing comments on this article and others like it may go against the narrative they are trying to cultivate with blog posts.

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    Minority groups in general need help integrating. The attitude displayed here is a great example of how women in tech feel dismayed when trying to integrate. There is absolutely no crazy agenda associated with attempting to be more civil to women in the workplace, or in tech specifically; nor is there one associated with being a mentor or attempting to be more inclusive during discussion.
    – Travis J
    Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 19:47
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    Is this supposed to be a demonstration of why comments are closed on the blog? Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 20:38
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    @BilltheLizard If it is and it was closed because of comments with similar content to this answer it proves the content of this answer. There is nothing abusive about it.
    – Oleg
    Commented Oct 5, 2017 at 20:41
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    @BilltheLizard Are you suggesting that the particular policies being advocated are so right that they can't even be discussed? This definitely sounds like pushing a viewpoint. Commented Oct 6, 2017 at 2:26
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    This answer has been flagged, but I'm not gonna delete it. For one thing, it'll probably reinforce your (mistaken) belief we are censoring people based on their political views. For another, it seems not so much rude as incoherent. The question you liked to has 44 answers and many of them are highly critical of Joel's position. Blog comments are frankly miserable to moderate and I'd much rather have people comment here anyway.
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Oct 6, 2017 at 2:27
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    @JustinMeiners: Of course it can be discussed. It is being discussed all across the internet. Unfortunately, there are idiots who love trolling this sort of blog post to waste peoples' time with pointless arguments. In addition, blog comments are so annoying to moderate, I'm pushing for them to be turned off for every blog post. If people want to talk about the blog or specific posts, they can do so on meta. (Probably better for MSE, however.)
    – Jon Ericson Staff
    Commented Oct 6, 2017 at 2:35
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    @JonEricson I understand that with anonymous public comments you can get a lot of garbage coming in. That makes sense. Commented Oct 6, 2017 at 2:40
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    @JonEricson It is being discussed all across the internet except here (until now) can't we keep it this way and let SO be only about programming?
    – Oleg
    Commented Oct 6, 2017 at 3:03
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    @PhilipKirkbride I think your answer is about as politically and socially charged as the blog posts and meta question you mention. You might make your point more convincingly and professionally by toning it down a little. Perhaps you should write up a more thoughtful meta question with references and post it on main meta, requesting more balanced and neutral blog/meta posts from SE? That might help you get taken more seriously. SO meta is probably not the right place to discuss these issues, although you were not the one that posted the question here.
    – user439793
    Commented Oct 6, 2017 at 4:57
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    @Bill the Lizard: No; the other (deleted) answer that was posted since your comment is a far better (?) example. I don't read any abuse from this answer; just dissent.
    – BoltClock Mod
    Commented Oct 6, 2017 at 5:32
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    @BoltClock exactly my concern. I don't buy this "third wave feminism" idea, but there is no abuse or trolling here. Commented Oct 6, 2017 at 16:21
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    @PhilipKirkbride: It's funny how supporting the status quo is not considered by some to be a "political agenda being pushed." Commented Oct 7, 2017 at 1:24
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    @NicolBolas Don't know what status quo you're talking about it's not even an applicable term to the content of the blog post. In any case an agenda doesn't have to be unpopular in order to push it. The first thing any totalitarian regime does is taking control of the media and shutting down conversation. The Soviet Union pushed the same agenda for decades, most of the population believed in it and they needed to continue pushing it to maintain that believe.
    – Oleg
    Commented Oct 7, 2017 at 21:28

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