3

First time meta poster here. Please don't go to too hard on me for anything I might have overlooked... :)

I just got two "no longer needed" comment flags declined (question for reference). These were comments asking for more information on an answer which was later edited in the answer by the answer's OP. So far I've learned from this question, that it was probably my error to flag them as "no longer needed" instead of flagging them for moderation attention and adding an explanation. Which is what I did directly afterwards for those two comments and an additional one, and got them accepted:

enter image description here

Now - not that I care too much about the declined flags - but seeing how this community and platform strives for perfection, wouldn't it be appropriate to remove the declined flags in such a situation. It's admittedly quite an edge case, but since the reduction of comment flags to choose from, I think this might happen more often now.

3
  • 5
    No; the flag history reflects what happens. You cast different flags, and what happens to those flags should remain accessible.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 15:23
  • @MartijnPieters I see. Then maybe the wording for the flags could be improved because "...or otherwise unnecessary" makes it seem like it would be a good fit for the above examples ("info already edited in").
    – zb226
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 15:30
  • 5
    I wasn't the one handling the flags; personally I'd probably have removed them. I really wouldn't worry about this.
    – Martijn Pieters Mod
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 15:32

1 Answer 1

2

I declined your first two "no longer needed" flags because I honestly did not see how they were "no longer needed". I read that answer and could not see where exactly the observations made in the comments had been incorporated into the answer.

Granted, I didn't look that hard, because they're just comments. They weren't causing any harm, none of them were unconstructive, and there weren't dozens of them, so I just erred on the side of keeping them there. So what if there's a little bit of redundancy? If I wasn't easily able to make the connection between the comments and the edits to the answer, then maybe someone else would also find the terse explanation in the comment response clearer.

I follow Shog9's guidance when processing comment flags, especially:

Moderators should generally process comment flags without dithering: if it doesn't immediately appear to be useful, remove it; if it might be, leave it. There are almost always more useful things to do than to stress about comments.

When you raised a second flag, it became obvious to me that you were firmly convinced—and persistent. Therefore, I looked very carefully, re-read the answer quite thoroughly, and re-evaluated all of the comments that had been left there.

Mind you, this consumed a non-trivial amount of my time, time that could have been much better spent on processing other more useful flags and deleting garbage that was actually causing harm. But clearly you thought this was very important—important enough to have called out a second time—so I didn't want to just dismiss it again too quickly or callously.

Upon my more thorough examination, I discovered that I had been a little bit confused in my initial read-through of the comments. Another moderator had previously deleted one of the comments, so I wasn't seeing that one, which messed up the flow of discussion and caused me to misinterpret which comments were responding to which other comments. Anyway, long story short, after you demanded that I take a second look, I did, and I ended up agreeing with you, so the comments were deleted and your second set of flags were marked "helpful".

I'm not sure why you are raising this issue on Meta, or what you want to have happen now. We cannot change history and retroactively change flag states from "declined" to "helpful", and in this case, it wouldn't even be worth doing if we could, because resolution of comment flags is completely irrelevant.

As for "the future", it isn't a matter of comment flag options being too limited. It's a matter of moderators not being able to simply blindly trust users who raise flags. You might be 100% accurate every time in judging which comments are "no longer needed" or "obsolete", but plenty of users are not. We get a ridiculous amount of flags on comments just because someone disagreed with them. Those flags need to be declined, in my opinion—flags should not be a way to get stuff deleted that you don't like or disagree with. Flags should not be the missing "downvote" for comments, a way to get moderators to insta-delete something that you disagree with. That means we have to look a bit more carefully and verify that the comment is, in fact, no longer needed.

Raising custom flags for comments is fine, if you want to provide a bit more context behind the purpose of your flag.

But before re-flagging the same comment, consider whether it's really necessary. Is this how you want to be spending your time? Is this how you want moderators spending their time?


Update: It has also come to my attention that I may be a bit less apt to indulge the deletion of flagged comments than other moderators. Since I've been handling a fair number of comment flags lately, that may have led to some confusion in that regular flaggers may see comment flags they've raised being "declined" that would have previously been marked "helpful".

I also think I deal with comment flags a bit differently than others. Although the UI presents disembodied comments independent of virtually all context, I never process them there. I always click through to the post to read them in context with it and the other comments. This allows me to do two things: (1) ensure that I've preserved the logical flow of discussion despite manipulating history, and (2) delete any other unnecessary comments that the flagger may have missed (and, on average, I find at least one).

So…it's not that I'm refusing to delete comments. Far from it. I've deleted bushels and bushels of them already, and see no end in sight. But I very much meant what I said about following the quoted advice above: if I see the possibility that a comment might be useful to someone in the future, and there are only a small, manageable number of comments on the post, I tend to leave it alone. Since there's no real way to mark a comment flag "helpful" yet decline to delete the comment (as can be easily done for flags on other posts), I dismiss the comment flag and it gets recorded as "declined" in your flagging history.

For example, I might preserve a comment that said, "Thanks, this was the only answer that worked for me on macOS." (And recently did elect to keep a flagged comment to that end on a question.) Assuming that the answer didn't already present these facts (the other answers are inadequate, and this solution will work on macOS), and the flagger of said comment didn't already make an edit that incorporated that comment into the answer, I see that comment as potentially adding useful and relevant information to the post, and certainly not doing any harm, so I think it should be left alone. Yes, in general, "thanks" comments serve no purpose because the sentiment is adequately expressed by the voting arrows. But that comment is more than just "thanks"—it carries a message, slight as it may be, so it isn't meaningless noise.

I'm not going to try and craft an elaborate list of "rules" for when I think a comment should be flagged, nor do I want anyone to follow such rules. I don't follow any elaborate list of rules of my own device when processing comment flags, either. I use my brain each time, and make the best decision that I can with the evidence in front of me, erring on the side of not deleting when I think there may be pertinent information or something of value at stake.

Quite honestly, none of this is anything that you should pay much attention to. Having a comment flag declined is almost entirely meaningless. The only meaning it has is that the moderator who evaluated your flag disagreed that the comment was devoid of all meaning and usefulness, and thus erred on the side of preserving it. It doesn't mean that your flag was wrong, or even that your flag was unhelpful. It just means you met someone on the Internet who disagreed with you.

My recommendation for everyone would be to pay a lot less attention to when you have comment flags declined. But honestly, my larger recommendation still stands: obsessing over a handful comments that are not causing any harm is not especially productive. There are a lot bigger fish that need to be fried.

Will made this observation recently:

Oh, look everyone! @CodyGray has learned that obsolete/too chatty comment flags are the most annoying and useless flags evar! Our little mod is growing up sniff.

He's right: they absolutely are. But I'm not going to go so far as to ask anyone to stop flagging them, because there frequently is noise that needs to be removed, and I have no problem doing that. I would just humbly ask that everyone be a little less obsessed with comment flags and their resolution.

If you are really insistent, and disagree with my first call, then a custom flag is still the right move, and I will pay more attention and be a bit more ruthless, just as happened here.

6
  • 1
    Oh, wow. Given by the gravity of your reponse, it looks like it's not of importance to clean up comments and reduce visual clutter (comments often include interesting info), because it ends up wasting your time. I try to clean up what comes along, not waste your time. Thought the system is supposed to work like this. Sorry for even asking, then.
    – zb226
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 16:01
  • 1
    If comments are actually creating clutter, then cleaning them up is fine. If you come across some comments that you genuinely think are "no longer needed" or "obsolete" or whatever, then please do flag them. That's what the option is there for, and it is indeed how the system is supposed to work. But I do get somewhat frustrated about the duality that exists here. On the one hand, everyone knows comments are second-class citizens and subject to being removed. On the other hand, if you raise a flag on a second-class citizen, it's expected to be treated as a first-class citizen.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 16:07
  • 4
    I apologize if my answer seems a little harsh. I've had four different people complain to me about comments being deleted (or not deleted) today, and that's just bordering on absurd.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 16:08
  • Thanks for that - Now I understand where you're coming from...
    – zb226
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 16:12
  • 3
    @CodyGray Just so you know, a lot of us are very impressed with the incredible amount of work you and Andy have done. Thank you so much for all the work you put into doing moderator stuff! Commented Aug 25, 2017 at 0:34
  • "Although the UI presents disembodied comments independent of virtually all context, I never process them there. I always click through to the post to read them in context with it and the other comments." I was shocked reading that the UI doesn't show context. Makes me understand more of why some mods try to set a standard on their sites for preferring custom flags where explanations for "no longer needed" can be given.
    – starball
    Commented Dec 27, 2022 at 19:43

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .