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I regularly see questions where the user is talking about batch processing in one language or another, and the question includes the tag. However, these often have nothing to do with batch as described:

A batch file is a text file containing a series of commands that are executed by the command interpreter on MS-DOS, IBM OS/2, or Microsoft Windows systems.

currently aliases to . I suspect what is happening is that questions pertaining to batch processing in other languages are being tagged with by the querents, and this is being "de-aliased" to .

(For what it's worth, I think the most common misuse is for spring batch, which seems to be an XML-based framework. We already have tag for that.)

I therefore suggest - if it's possible - that:

  1. a tag be created for this common 'misuse' of , and
  2. the tag be unaliased from , and
  3. the tag be renamed (preferred, IMO) or aliased to a new tag, , and
  4. an attempt to use the tag generate a warning suggesting the use of either or as appropriate. It should not automatically alias, and should not be permitted as a tag.

Alternatively, how can we educate querents to use properly?

(My intent with the suggestion is to present a 'solution' as a whole, not to propose four separate solutions. I'm not sure, from some of the comments, that this was clear.)

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  • 7
    I say get rid of [batch] and continue on with [batch-processing] and [batch-file] Commented Aug 17, 2017 at 16:44
  • 2
    @NathanOliver - that would probably be "safe", except that I can envision a situation where a non-Microsoft framework has definitions for batch processing stored in a file, and refers to same as a 'batch file' - thus breaking the disambiguation. That's why I suggested dropping batch-file in favor of microsoft-batch-language. Commented Aug 17, 2017 at 17:11
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    Either way you go, the obvious [batch] tag is going to be chronically misused. So you have to either decide which is the most likely use (the batch file scripting language, or general batch processing), or you have to blacklist the [batch] tag to force people to be more specific. A third option would be not to have a [batch-processing] tag because that doesn't appear to be an especially useful way to categorize questions. I'm not sure, since I'm not much of an expert in batch processing, but then again, that is rather the point.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 4:13
  • @CodyGray - The point you bring up about the misuse of batch is why I suggested point 4 above; it's essentially a "polite" form of blacklist, with suggestions as to the most-likely intended use. Clearly, the fact that it's being misused when aliased to batch-file suggests that querents think it's conceptually useful - batch processing, even in contexts that also support interactive processing, often applies a different paradigm, and may require different techniques. Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 11:30
  • @CodyGray - as regards that point 4, what I was envisioning was not that the post should be analysed and a popup suggesting "use batch-processing instead" or "use microsoft-batch-language instead", but that the popup would suggest "for clarity, use either batch-processing or microsoft-batch-language, whichever is more accurate for your question". Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 11:34
  • Ah, yes. This little feature.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 11:34
  • @CodyGray - Yes! Exactly! Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 11:44

4 Answers 4

3

I agree with #1. Having a separate tag here is a good idea.

For #2, I think whether this is needed would depend on question volume. If there aren't a lot of questions about batch-processing relative to the almost 38,000 questions we have about batch files, then another solution is probably better here, such as usage guidance in the tag wiki and/or the warning you mention in #4.

Regarding #3, I don't think renaming is a good idea. This is the name that everyone uses for these. It is, by far, their most recognizable name. I think 1, 4, and possibly 2 are sufficient to solve this problem without renaming a tag with almost 38,000 questions to a less recognizable name. The fact that suggesting renaming the tag required inventing a new name for the files just goes to show that its present name is really the correct one. If the tag really must be renamed, it at least needs to retain "batch-file" in the name, such as and should be aliased to it.

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  • I haven't tried to do forensics on the tag, but are you sure that the extant 38,000 questions are in fact on Microsoft Batch Language, rather than some sizeable subset being on batch processing or a related topic? My anecdotal observation that prompted this suggests that about a third to half of the questions tagged batch-file are in fact tagged incorrectly - but would correctly be tagged batch-processing. Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 18:33
  • I'll accept aliasing batch-file to the new Microsoft-related tag, though I'm not a big fan of tag aliases in the first place. I suggested [-language] because most of the queries I've seen seem to me to be language questions, rather than questions having to do with the file itself. Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 18:37
  • @JeffZeitlin Just from glancing through the first page (of 50) of them, only one appeared to be about batch processing and the rest appeared to be about Windows batch files or at least related to the Windows command processor (even if the quality of some of them was poor.)
    – reirab
    Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 18:47
  • As I said, I've not done forensics on it; I can accept that I may have hit a 'thick patch' - but is there any way to track questions that started out tagged with something, but another community member or moderator removed the tag as inappropriate? Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 18:50
  • @JeffZeitlin Yeah, I'm not aware of the statistics on ones that have already been edited, which is why I said 'if' in the second paragraph.
    – reirab
    Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 18:54
  • @JeffZeitlin Regarding the name, even Wikipedia's article is just titled Batch File and, from a quick glance, I don't see any mention of any alternative names. That's what I've always heard them called (in ~20 years of software development and IT work, most of which has been on Windows.)
    – reirab
    Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 18:56
  • No argument on that - but "batch files" was also used to refer to (for example) TSO EXECs and JCL on IBM mainframes while I was in college; I also recall seeing it used more than once for database report generation commands in some proprietary dbms implementations. I'll concede in advance that those cases would seem to be unlikely on SO; just noting that there's some inherent ambiguity to "batch file". "microsoft-batch-file" wouldn't be an unacceptable alternative; I thought "-language" would be better for the reason I gave above. Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 19:04
  • At least for the time being, I think the ambiguity with other things that are actually called "batch files" is sufficiently small that it's unlikely to be a problem. If something else comes along later that does cause more ambiguity problems, the tag can always been renamed then. I understand the reason for calling it '-language' and, from a purely semantic standpoint, I tend to agree that it's more accurate, but, from a practical standpoint, the problem is that people have just been calling them "batch files" for decades and that's the name nearly everyone would be looking for.
    – reirab
    Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 19:12
2

After a note by Cody Gray on my similar question I found this. So my thoughts on this as well:
I personally think that the batch tag should be blocked in whatever way. There are way too many things that could be meant when lightheadedly tagging batch as one can see here. To keep batch as a synonym for one of those (despite it being the most popular one based on the number of questions asked under it) is a mistake from my perspective.

To your suggestions:

1

Actually does exist and is actually almost to vague if one thinks about the amount of other tags for language dependent batches (azure-batch, java-batch, etc.)

2

Yes. Please! As I said already above, keeping batch (which is a general term for the language as well as mass processing) automatically targeted to only one of those without a warning or at all feels not good and regularily leads to incorrect tagging (when the intention is spring-batch for example).

3

I am actually unsure about this one. Similar to SteveFest I think that at least currently the inclusion of microsoft into it is redundant. As long as there are no other contestants for the tag-name I would say batch-file might stay the way it currently is.

4

What you describe there might be useful but I am unsure if something like this already exists. If it is possible to overwrite the blacklist message that would probably be the easiest way to handle this tag?

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  • I can support this approach; it does appear to handle the problem as I've seen it. To me, the key issues are to not have spring-batch or java-batch or et cetera not-Windows/DOS-Batch questions showing up under a tag that's intended for windows-dos-batch, and preventing the misuse/abuse of an ambiguous tag. Commented Sep 18, 2017 at 13:30
1

The tag did get mapped to .

This causes question about , or even have a tag.


[batch-processing] tag

This has been created and misused by both and other tags' asker. We should have a pop-up, also mentioned in this question's #4 suggestion.


Unaliasation

I agree with you. Questions about usually have the tag, too. One user told me he/she did not mis-tag, instead the system "autocorrected" for him/her.


Renaming [batch-file] tag

I am 50/50 on the suggestion. Since people would simply refer batch files as , not .

Con

Fixing the con

Maybe we can put a warning when a user inputs .

Do you mean by ?


Pop-up & select correct tag

Totally agree. This question has a more in depth exchange about such pop-ups.


Maybe we should really put a tag warning? But even with that, people can still ignore and mis-tag. That would be the root issue of the entire tagging system.

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  • As regards your #3 response: The only reason I suggest specifically microsoft-batch-language is because it is a language. The analogies to randomcreator-c-language is more-or-less false, because languages like C, C++, Pascal, COBOL, et multae ceterae, either have more-or-less standard definitions, or are purely proprietary, with only one company in control of the spec. However, the case of "batch" is different, because - as this question points out - there are many batch "languages", dating back many years - so to specify Microsoft's is useful. Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 11:34
  • I understand the fact that batch is a really special and rare case. It is of course possible to create ms-batch-lang, but people may not know about the tag. Maybe a warning says this when one selects batch-file tag: "Do you mean by MS Batch Lang?"
    – user6250760
    Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 11:37
  • That's exactly the point of my #4. The four suggestions aren't actually meant to be considered separately/in isolation; they are components of what I envisioned as a "total solution" (or at least "mitigation package"). Certainly, there is some flexibility in how the problem as a whole is addressed - for example, in my #2, one could alias batch to batch-processing instead of dealiasing entirely - but the intent was to present what I felt would be a reasonable approach to addressing the issue, logically. Commented Aug 24, 2017 at 11:43
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A lot of people refer to batch files as scripts interchangeably. I could imagine that those who are possibly just starting to get their programming feet wet (with a language considered a scripting programming language) may be confused with the terminology.

I suggest simply telling the OP that what they are describing does not fall under the category of a batch file and explaining to them why. And, if you have the admin privilege on Stackexchange, I believe you can edit their post and remove the tag.

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  • Oh, I have enough rep that I can do edits on questions - but I think it would be better to do what can be done to discourage mistags before they happen. This question/suggestion was aimed at accomplishing that; I certainly could support the creation of a scripting tag, but that's a separate question from the particular issue I'm highlighting here. Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 16:41
  • (I should note that I don't have to support the creation of a scripting tag; it already exists, for the more-or-less obvious purpose.) Commented Aug 18, 2017 at 19:23

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