3

I am honestly not certain about what has happened to this question of mine, but I know it isn't the first time this has happened to a question.

You write a question that you think is clearly stating the problem. The people complain, and you realize that it probably is too broad or is unclear. You manage every kind of edit until finally you just start over from scratch to make a question that is more concise.

That question of mine is now a mess. There are comments that aren't needed because of previous edits, the question was already down-voted twice from before, and I got an answer to my final edit which means that it is clear and concise, and especially since the answer I checked did answer my question thoroughly.

I am not here to complain, but there is a genuine problem here. Why does my question just continue to be a source of reputation loss? Why has my moderator flag to clean up the question not yet been answered to? Is my question really that bad?

The real question is: why isn't there just some "moderator reset" flag where the comments, answers, and vote count is removed because the question has changed so much that the old data is misleading and makes the new question confusing?

(And couldn't there be a sort of off-hand, to-the-side, chat feed for real-time feedback? Or at least a hot link to a dedicated chat for a question?)

Edit: The problem seems to be feedback often times. Perhaps it would be useful if a feature modified the down-vote button to require a reason why something is down-voted would be given, and then the ability to fix and appeal that down-vote might actually be a good system.

Edit (2): I believe it would be helpful to add: I know exactly what kind of question I wanted to ask, I just didn't know how to put it in words. Often times I don't have the words the first time around for my questions (in general, not just SO), but that is probably thanks to sleep deprivation.

I didn't actually edit what the question was asking. The previous title was, "How do I execute an x86 assembly instruction programmatically?"; the current title is, "How can I dynamically create and execute machine code at runtime?" The two titles are analogous yet confusing because the words in the first question have an ambiguous context, so the question was perceived as being "too broad", and the new title is blatantly broad.

I have edited the question to a bare minimum which is very obvious in what it asks for. I removed the unrelated clauses in the first paragraph and narrowed the question to just assembly.

I'm pretty certain that the question at heart is quite clear, and @SandPiper is probably right about the question probably being asked in the wrong place, but I believe I can conclude safely that the reason my question was found too broad was because of the ambiguous vocabulary and unnecessary clauses that made everyone think I wanted to know how the JVM produces machine code and how I can hack that mechanism. It would seem this question turned into the Protestant Reformation with all these interpretations…

Clearly, this was just one big misunderstanding, and it took this long just to find out what the problem is because there was no way (except through meta) to find out what the problem was.

I'm not really for the same idea mentioned by @BSMP (mentor chat, it doesn't sound very appealing), but a dedicated, auto-generated chat room for each question visible on the left or right side would be an easy way to just "ask away" the quirks, problems, and clarifications when the comment section is inadequate. You still see plenty of times a comment from a moderator in a question or two that says "moved to chat" because discussion is not what the comment section is for.

15
  • 2
    Read the tooltips over the upvote and downvote signs: The question ... is useful and the question ... is not useful. What is the definition of useful? I upvoted posts that were not useful for me personally, so ... This means both actions are subjective, and behind the screen people tend to be even more subjective. So be glad that someone helped you, for the rest, move on and do not care. Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 12:39
  • And couldn't there be a sort of off-hand, to-the-side, chat feed for real-time feedback? They are currently working on this.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 12:48
  • @BSMP relieved to hear that
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 12:51
  • @BillalBEGUERADJ Anyone can read a caption! Can a down vote elaborate why the question is not useful?
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 14:48
  • 1
    There are similar questions to the one through your comment, but the mods always say that users have the right to downvote without necessary giving an explanation (even if it is encouraged to explain the downvote). Others say why should we provide an explanation for a downvote but not for an upvote ... Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 14:54
  • Let me ask you this. What specific problem is still preventing you from accomplishing your work because you have not had this question answered?
    – SandPiper
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 15:17
  • @SandPiper none. It was just a question out of curiosity. Does that matter?
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 15:18
  • 1
    Yep. SO helps you answer specific questions. The question you asked helps spark a nice discussion. But it doesn't lend itself to a single Q&A. Thus downvoted. It isn't a bad question, but it belongs in a different forum.
    – SandPiper
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 15:21
  • 1
    @BillalBEGUERADJ I am mostly just throwing ideas out there. If SO wants to make their questions better, an easy means of getting feedback for why the question is considered "bad" is a simple solution. As was already mentioned by BSMP, they are already working on a chat feature. Data without explanation doesn't help at all, otherwise, it's just useless. Why bother when something is of no avail?
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 15:59
  • @SandPiper I suppose. On the contrary, this does not need a book to answer the question. A short answer giving a guide of where to look while giving a brief explanation would have sufficed: "Your question is quite difficult to explain in a few words, but in summary…(here's how it works)…and for further reading, I recommend…"
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 16:03
  • Questions asking where to find off site resources are also off topic on SO.
    – SandPiper
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 16:22
  • @SandPiper I never said that I was looking for off-site resources though…
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 16:43
  • If a comment is no longer applicable, you can flag it as "obsolete". If you truly want to "reset" your question, one option is to delete your post and start anew. Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 16:47
  • You wrote something like "why is always my question a source of rep points loss" or something like that. Looking at your questions, 3 questions have a negative score. 18 is zero or positive. Not sure I agree with your way of seeing it.
    – Andreas
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 9:01
  • @Andreas yes, but surely you can see the time stamps on when those questions were made… being more experienced narrows the question that you ask to a minimum. Those three questions were made when I was newer to the site.
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 12:10

2 Answers 2

4

Looking at the question and the edit history, my opinion is it is too broad for this site. Typically, SO is best for code debugging or questions about how to implement a very specific feature. Your question is essentially: "How does the Java compiler translate my code into machine code and how do I change what machine code it makes?"

There are literally books out there that describe the answer to this question. As such, it is not a bad question, just one badly suited for this site. You even say in a comment that "Ideally, the context is as broad as possible, but I'm uncertain as to what is so baffling and confusing about my question!" That's your first sign it's too broad when you admit it is broad.

Finally, I agree with the user that questioned if you were not trying to solve an XY problem. Java is designed to abstract the programming language from the machine code. You want to know how to nitpick that abstraction. Either you are entering into an academic discussion, or you are trying to solve the wrong problem.

As for moderator flags, they will post pictures of the moderator queues in the multiple thousands of review actions required. Be patient waiting for them to get to yours.

For the feature request, I recommend against that. If you reach the point where the question has changed enough to no longer be the original question answers were provided to, that is considered rude to the people who took time to post answers. You should leave that question alone and start again. Just keep in mind what I told you above. Make sure you have a very specific question in mind.

Also, prepare yourself for downvotes on this meta question based on your feature request. Meta works differently from Main, and many people here tend to use votes to express their opinion of your request (positive or negative) rather than how well you asked your question.

4
  • Well, clearly I still don't know how to make a concise "final edit" because my question is not at all about trying to hack the JVM. That part about the JVM is just info of where my curiosity about assembly was piqued. The question I asked is how code can actually be created dynamically at runtime (and executed).
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 12:56
  • 3
    That's still a very broad question. There are many ways to answer "how can I dynamically create code". Thus it doesn't lend itself to a short answer. It lends itself to a college course.
    – SandPiper
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 13:07
  • yes, but I narrowed it down to "assembly language" or "languages that can access assembly". You can only make so many answers to that. High-level languages would of course be too broad for this question. That's why I said high-level languages with inline-ASM. It is a question of "how can I generate assembly code at runtime and execute it".
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 14:46
  • And if the question is meant to be on a different site (such as programmers stackexchange), then why wasn't it simply moved? Or do you mean it is too broad for stackexchange in general?
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 14:51
2

Why has my moderator flag to clean up the question not yet been answered to?

Per Cody Gray ♦, your flag has already been handled but was declined:

Flagging a question and asking for it to be "cleaned up" is inappropriate. A moderator is not your personal editor, and we can't do anything about votes (unless they're fraudulent, and these aren't). The only thing that can be done here is to clean up comments, and the comments should be flagged for the appropriate reason if you want that to be done.

You can check the status of any flag you've raised by going to:

  • Profile > Activity
  • In the Impact box on the far right: helpful flags
  • From there you can filter by flag type or status on the right

The real question is: why isn't there just some "moderator reset" flag where the comments, answers, and vote count is removed...

If you need a string of comments removed you can use a custom flag and ask for that. Note that you should still be flagging a comment (like the first one that needs removing), not the post itself.

We only remove answers if they are: spam, gibberish, or not an answer at all. Users with delete votes might have more leeway but the community doesn't delete an answer just because it's wrong. Also, as SandPiper pointed out, an edit to a question shouldn't make an answer wrong anyway. Either it was always wrong (in which case an edit making it clearer it was wrong doesn't matter) or your edit changed what was being asked (which shouldn't happen).

We don't reset vote count because we don't want to force users to have to re-visit posts they've already voted on just to make sure their votes aren't removed. It does not make sense to just assume that any substantial edit fixes the issue(s) with the question, doesn't introduce new ones, and that the previous voters would vote differently on the new version.

That said, Makoto did propose the micro-privilege Question Forgiveness. If you like the idea of high rep users being able to spend their reputation to help a question's score (and potentially risk more of their own rep) then go vote it up.

modified the down-vote button to require a reason why something is down-voted

That's been feature-requested a thousand times. That's not going to happen. If you want more people to voluntarily comment on why they think a question is bad then you need to have this fight with the users who revenge down vote, leave nasty replies, or insist that all such comments are condescending.

then the ability to fix and appeal that down-vote

We shouldn't require the original voters to re-visit posts and all any other user could do is vote up the post, which is already a thing that can happen. I suspect what you're actually asking for is for some users to be able to remove the votes of other users because they disagree with how they voted but people are allowed to disagree on whether a post is good.

It also stands to reason that giving users the ability to remove down votes also means giving them the ability to remove up votes. I suspect that would be a lot more common than removing down votes.

6
  • 4
    "They'll get to it eventually" Normally, that's true. In this case, his flag was declined toward the end of July. He should be able to see that in his profile, along with why it was declined. Flagging a question and asking for it to be "cleaned up" is inappropriate. A moderator is not your personal editor, and we can't do anything about votes (unless they're fraudulent, and these aren't). The only thing that can be done here is to clean up comments, and the comments should be flagged for the appropriate reason if you want that to be done.
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 13:45
  • @CodyGray of course, when I flagged for the question to be cleaned up, I mean all the comments. Why would I ask someone else to clarify a question that only I know about what I am asking?
    – AMDG
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 15:06
  • 1
    You can flag individual comments as no longer required.
    – SandPiper
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 15:15
  • @SandPiper That's also true. Some mods prefer to get the one flag to clean up a whole thread but either works.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 20:32
  • Flagging a question and asking for it to be "cleaned up" is inappropriate @CodyGray - I did not realize that the OP meant that they literally raised a flag with that as the request. (I thought it was just a general description of what they wanted a set of raised flags to accomplish.) I should have gone with my initial thought of explaining how to check the flag status though.
    – BSMP
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 20:37
  • Sure, I figured that's what you were probably thinking. This is a great answer, very similar to what I would have written myself (so obviously it deserves more upvotes). That's why I only added the little nitpicky comment, since there's no way you could possibly have known what the flag said. Under some circumstances, it would be appropriate to flag with a custom reason and say "The question has been entirely rewritten, which invalidates all of the old comments. Please clear them." But (A) you need to be careful completely rewriting a question (!), and (B) the flag message was not that clear..
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 8:15

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .