-32

Due to Arrow's impossibility theorem, the Stack Overflow moderator election should be unfair since voters need to order three different candidates by ranking. Is this a flaw in the election, or am I applying Arrow's theorem wrong?

16
  • 23
    I don't really see what your point is. A quote from that very page that is highly relevant: "Most systems are not going to work badly all of the time. All I proved is that all can work badly at times." If you're looking for fairness in an election, you're never gonna find it.
    – animuson StaffMod
    Commented Jul 28, 2017 at 23:35
  • 6
    This is ridiculously theoretical of a concern to have, and stated in a vacuum means nothing. We could even dispute the assumptions for the theorem like "complete and transitive voter preference".
    – miradulo
    Commented Jul 29, 2017 at 0:04
  • 29
    The problem with Arrow's theorem is that while it points out the mathematical unfairness of every voting system, at the end, the real problem are the humans voting.
    – Braiam
    Commented Jul 29, 2017 at 1:44
  • 5
    Do you have a suggestion of a better system to use for the election?
    – Cody Gray Mod
    Commented Jul 29, 2017 at 10:51
  • 13
    Not sure about if it's a better system but the "Thunderdome" would make a wonderfully entertaining one... :p (plus good practice for mod message replies :p)
    – Jon Clements Mod
    Commented Jul 29, 2017 at 14:33
  • I didn't realize that it didn't apply here... sorry.
    – u8y7541
    Commented Jul 29, 2017 at 17:34
  • 27
    I vote for a hunger-games style election
    – user4639281
    Commented Jul 29, 2017 at 18:06
  • 23
    Oh no, now we need to vote for the kind of election...
    – u8y7541
    Commented Jul 29, 2017 at 19:45
  • 5
    The theorem describes several features that cannot coexist, none of which is "fairness".
    – Frank
    Commented Aug 1, 2017 at 20:37
  • 9
    You're applying Arrow's Impossibility Theorem wrong. when voters have three or more distinct alternatives isn't referring to being able to select 3 at a time, it's talking about the whole problem of having 3 or more people who are possible to elect; Like if A, B, and C are all running for president, and A is similar to B, C will win because the votes for A and B will be split, even if A would have won in a A vs. C election. Now... that does still apply to this situation, just not how you think. We have many candidates, so giving 3 votes to every person is actually a good way to handle it.
    – Davy M
    Commented Aug 2, 2017 at 3:10
  • 2
    This is not opinion-based, it is an objective thing, see @DavyM 's comment above! I voted to reopen.
    – peterh
    Commented Aug 2, 2017 at 6:25
  • 1
    Let people be divided into three political camps of equal voting power. Camp 1 prefers A>B>C, Camp 2 prefers B>C>A and Camp 3 prefers C>A>B. Now choose one of A, B, C, however you like, that can not be replaced by majority rule. Go on. I dare you. Condorcet dares you. Pedantic question: Does this mean that nothing would be acceptable to a majority? or does it just mean voting has some mathematically "interesting" properties.
    – Paul
    Commented Aug 2, 2017 at 13:00
  • 2
    @DavyM The theorm is specifically referring to a voting mechanism where you rank the candidates (which is how SO ran it's election) so it does apply in that sense. It states that you can't get all of the properties mentioned unless voters provide more than just a ranking of every single candidate in the order they'd like to see them elected, and SO's election didn't even let them do that much (SO only let 3 of the 10 be ranked).
    – Servy
    Commented Aug 2, 2017 at 13:44
  • @Servy That's exactly right; I hit the character limit in my previous comment and thought that my post would convey it but now I'm seeing I didn't explain myself well. 3 of the many be ranked is still a fallacy. It is also important to know, can you address how much higher your idea of 1st is over 2nd? Perhaps for one person the 1st and 2nd choices are about the same, and for another, 1st is by far the best and 2nd just happens to not be the worst, so the whole story isn't told. Yet these are worst in one-winner situations; with our 2 winners, 3 votes helps keep things more even in my opinion.
    – Davy M
    Commented Aug 2, 2017 at 15:19
  • 6
    xkcd.com/1844 Commented Aug 2, 2017 at 20:52

1 Answer 1

13

Is this a flaw in the election, or am I applying Arrow's theorem wrong?

Depends on how exactly you define flaw. Arrow’s theorem says essentially that there is no completely fair¹ rank-based voting system. However, this does not mean that true rank-based voting systems² are bad in comparison to other voting systems, as:

  • Rank-based voting system in the sense of Arrow’s theorem comprises a lot, including plain majority voting.
  • Alternative systems are usually much worse on a level that isn’t even assessed by Arrow’s criteria, e.g., you have indirect voting or voters are not considered equal to begin with.

Thus, if you so wish, the result of Arrow’s theorem is that there cannot be any completely fair¹ voting system at all (unless you have only two choices, which does not apply here). In this sense, all voting systems are inevitably flawed – including Stack Overflow’s.

However, being rank-based is not a flaw of Stack Overflow’s voting system per se. True rank-based systems² are much less flawed than, e.g., plain majority voting and the STV system used by Stack Overflow is arguably very well suited for its purpose. It has flaws (such as allowing us to rank only three candidates) and of course it suffers from the inevitable problems due to Arrow’s theorem, but being rank-based itself is not a flaw – it’s an asset.


¹ according to some simple, reasonable criteria
² i.e., voting systems which actually take into account all ranks, and do not just discard all but the first choice of each voter

4
  • 1
    So what you're saying is that even though this voting system isn't perfect, it's the best we can possibly do?
    – u8y7541
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 21:03
  • 2
    @u8y7541: Mostly. As I said in the last sentence, there are aspect that could be improved, but that’s the icing on the cake, not a fundamental issue.
    – Wrzlprmft
    Commented Aug 5, 2017 at 21:30
  • It would indeed be nice to reduce the number of "exhausted" votes, for instance in the last election there was a victory by some 2k votes, but there were 6k exhausted votes. opavote.com/results/5927932925050880/0#anchor-8
    – Nemo
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 13:13
  • 1
    @Nemo: Or one should change his/her name to "exhaused" before running :)
    – unutbu
    Commented Aug 6, 2017 at 19:01

You must log in to answer this question.

Not the answer you're looking for? Browse other questions tagged .