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Wouldn't it be better if each time you upvote someone the same amount of rating gets subtracted from your own? (without getting into negative numbers) I believe that that way there wouldn't be such disparity between new users and top users ratings, and help to a much more overall balanced ratings

+ Features:

  • No downvotes
  • User begins with a certain amount of points

+ Implementation: A realistic approach would be implementing this rating method in a way that it coexists with the current, and by essentially providing another way for the user to reward q&a's, use it as a tool to determine quality of data.

50
  • 6
    Full zero-sum reputation? I don't think I've heard that suggested before. Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 2:25
  • 5
    If this was implemented people cast much fewer votes overall. This would cause newer users to have a much harder time catching up to high-rep users, not an easier one. Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 2:27
  • 1
    I didn't mean to be sarcastic. I've seen a lot of voting changes proposed over and over again, but don't personally remember seeing this one before. It would make new votes more valuable, yeah. But what about all of the users who already have reputation? We're not starting from scratch, so we have to take that into account. Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 2:35
  • 13
    Are you suggesting that if you vote up a question you loose 5 rep, if you vote up a answer you loose 10? i don't think that's a good idea as privileges require rep to be obtained so those who like to keep the site clean and have access to Mod tools would refrain from voting in order to keep access to the tools.
    – Memor-X
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 2:50
  • 1
    also if your loosing rep because you giving someone else rep then what about downvoting? do we gain 2 rep for making a down-vote instead of loosing 1? what will stop new (idiot) users from going though every question and answer mass downvoting to get more rep to get access to mod tools?
    – Memor-X
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 2:50
  • 1
    So what you're saying is a rep penalty for upvotes? I think that's a great idea because rep whores abuse them very very much.
    – user193661
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 2:57
  • 2
    @ManoBastardo an Upvote would indicate your approval/support for a question and answer. but then how do you express your disapproval for a question like this one where the user is expecting us to do all their work for them? also currently votes are anonymous. peoples rep suddenly changing because they give an up vote would eliminate the anonymity of the system
    – Memor-X
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 3:08
  • 1
    Even a modest discouragement of voting unwisely, like -1 rep trade-off for an up-vote, might be quite interesting here and mitigate abuse of some sort. I don't see it as too big of a deal that it punishes new accounts. I'm one of them, have a low rep which I've been trying to increase for a couple of weeks, and of course I'd like to have a higher rep. But more important and interesting to me is to see the site grow in a way that promotes quality content.
    – user4842163
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 3:09
  • 9
    How would anyone have gained rep in the first place if you had to spend to give it?
    – jscs
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 3:15
  • 1
    @Ike actually you can't "plow through links and up-vote anything we find the slightest bit interesting", not only is there systems already in place to detect and reverse serial voting but also as you can read here you only have 30 per UTC day and that's nothing com[pared to how many are posted a day
    – Memor-X
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 3:19
  • 5
    I kinda changed my mind about this halfway -- I think there's too inherent of a risk of having the precise opposite effect intended... where people hardly ever vote and end up spending more time flooding the site with questions and answers with the decreased frequency of votes, trying to scrounge to get a vote here and there. It might turn into more of a grind instead of less. I really think to promote quality, it's not so much maybe about reducing the incentive to vote lightly but to direct the votes to question topics that are more interesting than, say, a homework troubleshooting question.
    – user4842163
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 3:25
  • 3
    @ManoBastardo money is a terrible example as while you don't use money rarely you may use it rarely on yourself as you are forced to use it to pay for bills/rates/taxes and food and might not have alot for yourself. if i didn't have to horde my money i would be drowning in Anime Merch
    – Memor-X
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 3:41
  • 1
    Though maybe the ideal outcome could arise as well -- I dunno! I just saw a bleak picture that didn't seem too far-fetched... but a good picture is one where people stop up-voting FGITW ninjas, that votes get directed towards quality answers, trouble-shooting answers get hardly any votes (and maybe, as a result, trouble-shooting questions don't get many answers -- which I don't see as the worst thing), etc... and we end up getting quality. That too seems quite probable.
    – user4842163
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 3:41
  • 1
    @ManoBastardo about your "no more downvotes"... downvotes are integral to the way stack promotes and keeps its quality up.... I would suggest lurking on meta and the main site for more than a month and some before proposing such a paradigm shifting suggestion... Also... "you can't get into negative"... so once you're at 1... you can't upvote anymore? or your upvotes are free?
    – Patrice
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 14:24
  • 1
    @ManoBastardo which goes back to what I suggested.... lurk a bit more before jumping into massive overhauls of our system. Honestly, downvotes are one of the most useful tools Stack has for quality. If you get rid of them, we have to be CERTAIN there won't be bad repercussions about it. I am not certain it's all been taken into account here.
    – Patrice
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 18:06

2 Answers 2

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This suggestion is not a beneficial idea, and I'll explain exactly why.

Imposing a penalty on upvotes doesn't make sense. Why should we be punishing people for saying that someone else posted a correct answer? This is like telling students in a class We're going to deduct points from you for every one of your classmates that has the same correct answer as your correct answer. You're not helping anyone by doing so, and you're defeating the entire purpose of the site by not allowing quality questions and answers to be acknowledged.

This is like saying You're a homeless person, and you go to a shelter to get a meal. But if you say "Thank you" to anyone who provided you shelter or food or served you, you get part of your meal taken away.. What does that accomplish other than to discourage you from acknowledging that someone helped you? Absolutely nothing. People that share information should be thanked with votes, and people who thank them for sharing by upvoting shouldn't be punished for doing so.

This is not similar to currency, because we're not conducting a transaction. This is a reward system, where we're encouraging people to share their information. If someone offers to buy you coffee, is it better to say Thanks for the coffee., or Thanks for the coffee. I'll buy a cup too, and just pour it down the drain.? You decide.

Those users who have so crazy ratings (by which I understand you to mean high reputation) have it because they've posted intelligent, well researched questions or quality, intelligent answers and earned the upvotes. Instead of being jealous of them for having those so crazy ratings, you should respect their knowledge and their willingness to share that knowledge with others freely.

14
  • The method is not to be viewed as a penalty system, but more like a reward system in which the rating which is being transferred is much more valuable. As I mentioned in the comments, an example of this method is a currency system Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 4:59
  • 4
    No, it's not. It's a penalty for those who want to acknowledge others for sharing information. You're under a totally wrong impression. This is not currency, where you're paying for something. This is a reward system, where you're thanking people for being willing to share their information and experience. You need to understand the difference. We want valuable questions and answers to be upvoted (to indicate they are valuable), and it shouldn't hurt people who do so. Your suggestion means that I pay a penalty for telling you that you gave me valuable information.
    – Ken White
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 5:04
  • What I mean with using the currency system as an example is a method for visualizing the transaction of rating. It is clear that in the method proposed the transaction is voluntary, please try to be civilized in your comments so we might have a productive conversation Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 5:13
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    I have not been anything other than civil. This is not a transaction. This is a reward system. We want quality to be indicated. If you can't comprehend that, I suggest once again that you review the tour, the help center, and every single blog post that has been written about the intent and design of this site. I also (again) strongly suggest that you understand the site before suggesting a major change, rather than being the individual who just earned their first (insert unit of currency) and now thinks they can suggest improvements to their country's economy.
    – Ken White
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 5:20
  • I've given you an equivalent of visualizing the transaction with the homeless example in my answer. What benefit does it provide to deduct something from someone for thanking you for voluntarily sharing their valuables??? Absolutely none, any more than it benefits that homeless person by removing food from their meal for showing appreciation. Removing that food is a visualization that has a negative value, not a positive benefit.
    – Ken White
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 5:29
  • In reply to your updated post, I believe that currently there is a transaction of rating taking place. Also the zero-sum method doesn't imply getting away from a reward system, contrary to that, it increases the value of the transaction. Using your example as a model, it would be something like Thanks for my coffee, and here is a tip Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 5:30
  • 1
    It's clear this isn't going to be a productive exchange, because you're not willing to listen, so it's pointless. Good luck with your idea.
    – Ken White
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 5:33
  • I posted the question with the precise intention of listening to the comments, please don't take this matter so personal Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 5:36
  • 2
    It's not personal. You posted a bad idea, I provided several examples of why it is so and why your comparisons to currency transactions are invalid, you accused me of incivility, and I'm stopping. I'd say you're welcome for the coffee, but then I'd have to pay for a cup of coffee in order to pour it down the drain, and that just doesn't make any sense.
    – Ken White
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 5:42
  • Let us continue this discussion in chat. Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 5:48
  • 5
    While I agree that the idea is a bad one, I disagree with the way you've given your argument. There's no need to be so scathing, a simple explanation about why it's not a good idea should suffice. No need to drive people away from meta, even if they are new or proposing not-so-good changes
    – Rob Mod
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 6:07
  • 4
    @Rob: Sorry, but I'm missing where I was scathing - I certainly didn't mean to be. Can you point out where in my answer I did so, so I can edit it to be different? (I removed some text from the final paragraph, as it did seem a little harsh. If that's what you were referring to, thanks for pointing it out. If there's more, point it out as well and I'll see if I can rephrase.)
    – Ken White
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 6:14
  • lol I'll accept the answer even if I disagree. Thanks for the input Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 6:52
  • Thanks for the accept. Where do I see that you've been punished for doing so by the equivalent amount of point deduction (15 in the main site). Sorry if 15 of your 21 points rep will be lost just for accepting my answer; I wish you could have done so at no cost, but according to your plain it isn't. (You did say that what you vote should cost you, so an accept should cost you the same 15 points that the poster earned, after all.) What will you do with the remaining 6 points?
    – Ken White
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 7:32
2

This is like saying that for one to grow, others have to sacrifice their own growth.

What if we implemented your idea?
Let's assume that we implemented your idea (It's not going to happen anyways). My first reaction to any other answer would be to downvote them, so as to get more visibility to my answer. If you implement a feature to penalise downvoting (Which is already there), I will not upvote any single answer. Why would I? I am not giving away my wealth of reputation to any unknown stranger, even if the answer helped me.

Is it making things easier for newbies?
You're not making it easier for new user, you're making it difficult for them to get visibility, because the existing user will already know the tricks. Remember only the fittest survive in an competition.

And I suppose you're a programmer (It's StackOverflow), so you forgot the golden rule of programming. Never fix something which isn't broken. The current system is not broken.

So what about the disparity?
We all know that the issue exists, but this is not the solution. To get the solution, first identify the root cause of the problem. Why a new user can't keep up with the older ones? Acc. to me there is just one reason, because they don't give a damn about the FAQ. Very few reads them. New users don't know how to phrase the question and forget about searching before posting. They assume that this site will help them discuss their problem, whereis it's not the goal of SO. Most of the time, the questions are trivial enough which can be solved by looking at the documentation. The community is not anti-new user. The community just does not tolerate people who have not researched enough before posting an answer or want us to do their homework.

But the issue exists and SO is doing nothing about it.
And SO guys are not unaware about this. They are trying to fix things without any chaotic measure like what you have suggested. One measure they took is to not fix the currently working system, but create a wholly different feature, keeping new users in center. It's called Documentation (Funny name). It's going to be a documentation we all missed when we started programming for the first time. It'll include examples and tutorials for the said class/method. I say that's better than Fixed point rating system. You can follow the discussion and suggest your ideas to make it better too.

I hope this answers your concern.

2
  • Thanks for your response. 1 is easy, there simply are no downvotes. 2 Well that's what is being discussed. There should always be room for improvement, and that's what the question is about, I don't believe in that expression, and I suppose you don't either, otherwise you wouldn't be here. 3 When you pay with your money, do you consider it a sacrifice as well? 4 I believe that that is your personal opinion, thanks Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 8:10
  • 2
    @Mario: Remove downvotes as well? You really don't understand how and why this site was designed or how it works. Downvotes are necessary in order to indicate poor quality (as are upvotes to indicate high quality). If we take away downvotes and remove the incentive to upvote, what do we have left? The same as a thousand other useless, noise cluttered Q&A sites that are already out there. StackExchange has no desire for any of it's sites to be like those others. If you're so intent on a site that has that design, feel free to take your business there instead; don't try to turn us into one.
    – Ken White
    Commented Nov 26, 2015 at 20:15

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