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This edit suggestion walks an interesting line:

https://stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/8215702

As I understand, the editor suggests to make the relations in the answer text better understandable (by replacing "that" with "as below"). But she/he didn't alter typesetting issues, like missing blanks after commas etc.

My first impulse was: well, why not correct "everything" after a good start. Let's improve. But then, I just accepted the edit suggestion.

Here are some aspects:

  • If I am not native, and I am not able to write something more than "this solved problem,see that,it help you,i explain...", then this seems to be part of my personal expression and part of my "face". I wanted to give something of value, and I have done so the way I am right now, personal and authentically.
  • On the other hand, if somebody else also is not native, she or he may understand a text of a good language, but might not understand a text in a personal, but terrible language. The gap between author and reader, how the differ from the "original" language, becomes too big. So by improving the language, I might actually help other readers.

What is more important to StackOverflow: respecting the way people talk and express themselves as individuals, or attempting to improve language correctness and readability?

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  • My personal opinion right now: respecting the effort and the individuality has top priority. Commented May 27, 2015 at 7:37
  • Want to make it simple? Reject any incomplete, and I mean any incomplete edit; accept the rest. If nothing else it's fun to see how meaningless your vote or G'ingAS is. Commented May 27, 2015 at 8:05
  • @Chief Two Pencils, you are totally right that reality (almost everywhere) "reduces" us to just one of several opinions :-) If this is the case, don't bother too much... Commented May 27, 2015 at 9:02

4 Answers 4

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In the end the author of a post does not really matter. SO is all about the content, not the user, the usability of a question or answer for future readers is a lot more important than the personal style or 'face' as you call it of the author.

However, the difference between "that" and "as below" seems pretty trivial to me, I would have rejected and improved the whole post if I was the reviewer.

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  • Why would you reject the edit if the change in wording is trivial? The most important aspect of the edit was that the formatting of the code was corrected. I would improve the edit, change the punctuation and change the wording to something closer to the original. Commented May 27, 2015 at 15:16
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    @LisaMM, this is a heavy argument, thanks. Although it is not my preferred point of view, it makes sense so I'll have to reconsider. I can't help it that all contributions in SO are finally personal contributions. But then, say in a tight math book, most personal style is hidden in order to have a clear and universal structure. And this is an important thing. - Maybe people should accept that in SO, their contributions are reshaped in order to improve things for future readers. Commented May 27, 2015 at 15:55
  • @nisse sorry, I did not follow the link to the edit and based my answer on this question alone. OP sounded like that one sentence was the only change the editor made.
    – LisaMM
    Commented May 27, 2015 at 17:27
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    @LisaMM: That makes your answer reasonable. I've expanded on my comment in an answer I just posted. Commented May 27, 2015 at 17:39
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Anything that is simply wrong for no discernible purpose I have no shame removing: an author who dislikes capitalizing "I", unless they are secretly e.e. cummings, doesn't get any particular allowance from me, and similarly for putting spaces before question marks or colons. That's not "personal style", that's "I don't know how the language works".

You have to know the rules of a language before you can break them well. If I judge that they don't know the rules they are breaking (which is usually the case), then I correct that just like I'd correct a C answer that obviously leaves out a semi-colon at the end of a statement. Sure, maybe they might have meant something remarkably subtle and clever with that. Did they, really, realistically? No, no they did not.

However, odd word choices will usually stay in; this is especially the case in questions where the author clearly doesn't know the proper terminology and other querents might similarly be lacking a good way to say "you know, the frobulator that squinoms the foo quux". (Not quite so much in answers, where I assume someone should usually know something of how to explain what they know about.) Some particular patterns ("I have a doubt about […]" shows up a lot in questions) tend to stick out as being exceptionally awkward and characteristically from certain groups, so at present I habitually remove them in favor of a less questionable phrase that means the same thing.

The real problem with trying to preserve authors' styles, though, is that very often they don't have much of one: they're simply inexperienced with the language (or with technical writing in it), so nearly all the distinguishing features only really distinguish Bad English from fluent, not one author from another. Preserving what's only barely there in the first place is not trivial, and putting in great effort to carefully preserve a part of the answer that did not take much effort to begin with isn't particularly sensible.

In this particular case, most of what the original author said was fluff: "I am answering this question from personal experience, one of the canonical ways the necessary expertise is gained to make good answers. Here is the answer, which was in my own case suitable." I've seen hundreds of answers that say basically that. You could shorten that to "Here's what worked for me", but even that is a bit long, and I generally prefer to simply remove the whole shebang for concision. It leaves a code-only answer, yes, which is not much better than one that starts off "I had the same problem" as far as attracting flags to delete, but at least it's more honest that there's really nothing more to say (at present) about the answer. (I'll also sometimes add a comment that more explanation would be better.)

In very rare cases I will go so far as to fill in the apparently missing context to make the answer more useful. That's only if I know I can do an excellent job filling things in and I'm worried an otherwise good answer will be lost; if faced with the choice of "fill in with my own style" or "LQP queue deletes this", I'll take the former.

(This answer is fairly heavily influenced by thousands of posts reviewed. Posts that have so few problems they don't end up in any review queue would doubtless show a somewhat different set of characteristics, but that's not a problem in this particular case.)

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  • "That's not "personal style", that's "I don't know how the language works"." You are rather harsh. Many languages have different rules for the spaces surrounding punctuation, and it is frequent that there is confusion. I myself do that often; in French, the ! is preceded by a space. It's good to correct, but don't hold a grudge against that. :-)
    – Docteur
    Commented May 27, 2015 at 9:19
  • @Nathan, thanks a lot. You are writing aspects of well-directed editing, that will cut deep if necessary. What I like here is that the result of your editing has a clear line, and it is freed from much fluff. Commented May 27, 2015 at 16:13
  • I promise you, we both could talk to a language expert (each in our native tongue) and she/he would prove us that we both don't understand grammar really to the end. There are shades of how much you "understand how the language works". This makes me careful with my own judgement. Commented May 27, 2015 at 16:15
  • I won't correct a missing semicolon, but I will write a comment like "There's a syntax error, please fix it so other readers don't get it wrong." Commented May 27, 2015 at 16:16
  • I must consider "inexperienced", that's true. "Inexperienced" is not style. Maybe somebody is grateful for the hint, how to write better, and even sees it as an opportunity to improve the language skills. Commented May 27, 2015 at 16:18
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    @Docteur: Yeah, I hold no grudges against someone who simply doesn't know how English works quite right, especially if it's stuff like including an upside-question mark before questions the way Spanish does. Usually their writing is more pleasant to correct than someone who flat-out didn't care. Commented May 27, 2015 at 16:51
  • @peter_the_oak: Yeah, I do try to keep in mind my own limits; answering and reviewing on ELL is helping some with that. But within the mastery I do have, this is how I edit. Commented May 27, 2015 at 16:56
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This is something I work with everyday, as I suspect quite a few other SO/SE contributors do. I work with students and help to correct their writing. Some native speakers, some not. We want each contribution they make to be their own reflecting their thought and ideas, personal style and idiom, yet also ensure that their creativity and knowledge is not obscured by weaknesses in the language, grammar, vocabulary or typography.

It is a fine line that needs experience and judgement. If one makes too many suggested edits, every single item of prose you edit ends up in your own style, that of the editor, and you have removed the personalising features of the author. Nothing I proofread should show that it was me that assisted in its creation. That is a hard ideal to achieve.

Too light a touch will result in a poor communication of information, a poor expression of the individual behind them, and one has failed as an editor again.

It is a similar problem with language translation. When I translate some texts to English it is often fiendishly difficult to capture the character of the author and end up with something that reflects me as a translator.

When I edit on SO I try to steer a fine line. It is not possible to completely rewrite into the style of "The London Times". I leave grammatical artifacts and vocabulary choices that reflect the writer, but fix things that impair reading, such as spelling, capitalisation, and to a degree punctuation. I try and leave enough to retains the flavour of the author's speech.

However, I do not think your question is constructive in Meta, as it will only result in a discussion, and not lead to a conclusion....

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    But the discussion tag says: "A tag for questions that may not necessarily have a clear-cut right or wrong answer and are often subjective. If it's not a bug or feature-request, it is probably a discussion." Commented May 27, 2015 at 8:13
  • I appreciate your answer and the knowledge and experience it is based on. This is a good guide, thank you. "...yet also ensure that their creativity and knowledge is not obscured by weaknesses..." and "Nothing I proofread should show that it was me that assisted in its creation..." are the essential. Commented May 27, 2015 at 8:56
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Sometimes, Stack Overflow itself compels some editors to make questionable changes to other user's language.

Here's what I think happened:

The user wanted to improve the formatting of the code by adding the missing four-space prefix on the first line. This suggestion could not be submitted because there is a six-character minimum limit for users with less than 2K reputation, so the user had to find something more to edit.

I've noticed this several times in the past, usually because the editor has mentioned it in the edit summary. I typically improve the edit by undoing the superfluous changes, as well as making other improvements if appropriate.

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