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I just have to ask if there should be a cut-off for downvotes affecting rep. I have seen, and been guilty of, asking a poorly worded question.

The problem as I see it is, sometimes, when you ask something stupid or poorly worded etc, you can get railed repeatedly in downvotes totally trashing your rep (and sometimes it's just because someone doesn't understand how you worded it)-

I'm not saying it shouldn't be downvoted, but often (I feel) even after remediation to question has been made, the ones who've downvoted never come-back and un-downvote, and even if you delete the question so no more can downvote, the damage has been done.

I don't know I just feel people can be vindictive. Example that made me post this was this morning... A user asked a really bad question, the question got flagged for on hold (it had about -10)... I looked at another post for less than 3 minutes and it came back, post had -15. For real? The user already knows they asked something poorly.

For new users or users who do not post often (eg up-n-comers) this is a real deterrent to participate at all. (Also before it's linked I did read the articles explaining that it cost rep, and why, etc- it still misses the point of one mistake can cost you dearly as a poster).

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  • It's really hard to make an informed opinion if you are going to just rant and not provide actual proof. Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:22
  • That "dear" mistake would be more than made up with by a single answer with any more than just one upvote. The rep lost from downvotes is almost nothing in comparison to the rep gained from upvotes.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:23
  • 8
    There already is a cut-off point: accounts have a minimum of 1 rep. Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:24
  • 4
    "For new users or users who do not post often (eg up-n-comers) this is a real deterrent to participate at all" - this is a positive thing IMO. If a new user asks a really bad question (your own words!), then he should be downvoted and deterred from participating in this manner. If he stops using SO entirely, or if he takes take the high amount of downvotes as an indication that he did something fundamentally wrong and tries to change his questions for the better, is up to the user.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:24
  • 2
    Well if the rep cap for a day is 200 should it also cap at -200 for rep lost in a day?
    – Joe W
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:29
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    @JoeW I'm reasonably confident that no user has ever received that many downvotes in a single day. For all we know that limit is there and we've simply never hit it.
    – Servy
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:37
  • 1
    @Servy I was assuming that also as it would be crazy to lose that much rep in a single day from downvotes.
    – Joe W
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:39
  • @staticx Not many, including myself would leave a question posted getting brutally downvoted; the common reaction is to delete it to stop the flood of downvotes.
    – Nyra
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:41
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    @"Discussion in general", going off this comment, how is a user supposed to alter/fix their behavior if they are to terrified to ask a question. Not everyone has time to camp SO all day just to farm rep. Wouldn't it be better to cap it and have poor questions fixed instead of the panic delete (that again IMO- due to lack of guidance) just gets perpetuated into more poor questions. Maybe a one-line blurb on why you are downvoting instead of a rep point loss would be more effective. If someone comes through and downvotes and you have no clue why, then how are you supposed to fix it?
    – Nyra
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:41
  • Here's an example from my own question. stackoverflow.com/questions/24292576/… (I had to break comments into multiple due to length; standby)
    – Nyra
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:42
  • I made a dumb mistake and had static delegate void and since I hadn't done a rebuild it was telling me a different error. Me and the other user in that post worked through it in 5 minutes (he made suggestion at 18:27, I posted I was making changes to post at 18:32 because it was already fixed per his reccomendation and pointing out my dumb mistake)... Later that night, someone came through and downvoted... Really? And no reason why. Should I have left it as a dumb mistake? I feel that would have gotten downvotes for making a dumb mistake- you can't win sometimes.
    – Nyra
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:42
  • @JoeW I get the irony of receiving -200 a day is laughable, but when you are new, and you are afraid to ask due to the ramifications from the masses, it is a deterrent. Isn't the idea to improve user interaction?
    – Nyra
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:45
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    @alykins "... since I hadn't done a rebuild it was telling me a different error." That is the first problem right there, you did not even rebuild your project before asking a question on SO. Asking a question should be a long process that starts with research and double-checking all of your involved code, configuration, environment, et cetera; and only ends with you actually clicking the "submit" button after you've done all this and still can't figure out what's going on. If you didn't even do a rebuild before asking the question, you didn't do your homework here.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 14:50
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    @alykins "Every time you see an error on your VS error list, or an inline red squiggle you do a rebuild" - I don't care what you do in development, but every time you ask a question on SO you should do a rebuild, and many other things, as a preparation for writing a good question. You should in general create a minimal, self-contained example for all questions where this is possible. In doing so, you could maybe even have solved the problem by yourself. Not doing so, and not doing all the other things like double-checking your actual errors, is perceived as being lazy and thus downvoted.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 15:06
  • 2
    and re voting: voting on meta does not only indicate question quality, but also signals disagreement. In this case, people disagree with having a cut-off for downvotes.
    – l4mpi
    Commented Jul 17, 2014 at 15:08

1 Answer 1

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Harsh but understandable

While I appreciate the frustration to a new user of not getting directed feedback on a poor submission you should try to see it from the down-voters' perspective too.

All the information about how to ask a good question and what is or isn't on-topic here and other well written resources that many people spent significant time creating and working out how to best to offer it to new users is all freely available material that you are directed to in many different ways and at multiple times during the course of asking your first few questions.
If a user doesn't go the the trouble of reading the most basic FAQs about the site before throwing a vague or commonplace duplicate post out why should active users spend/waste their time trying to educate a user who has shown (that to some degree) they are too lazy to help themselves?

Delete the post?

Many argue that anything with the level of downvotes you are hinting at just contributes to the "noise" in the signal to noise ratio battle and deserves to be deleted regardless of whether the user opts to remove it themselves.
In fact it more than likely would be given enough time for the community response to kick in and for the post to make its way through the appropriate queue.

Also, when you delete a post any rep you may have lost gets returned to you. Be careful here though as deleted Questions are not ignored when considering whether or not you should be allowed continue to ask new Questions.

Minimum required effort

You asked in the comments:

Who's to say who has, and who hasn't done their research through-and-through.

We are. All of us. The community. If you don't show us what you have done the majority will assume the amount is none and will respond to your post in the ways you are describing above for being pre-maturely asked or a waste of our time. Trying to pry piece after piece of clarifying info from an asker can be a frustrating experience.

How to ask a question does a great job of explaining what constitutes a well asked Question but I'll summarise a couple of the more important (IMO) points here:

  • Word your post well.
    • Language, spelling and grammar matter. They are the all important first impression for your post. Like in real life, first impressions count. People will assume many things about a post's quality based just off how it looks.
    • A lack of effort to attempt to write correctly is a big indication of a low quality Question (discussed in the most recent podcast).
    • Lack of English fluency is not looked down upon and shouldn't put a user at (a significant) disadvantage; many users are happy to help and will attempt to improve the post but correct capitalisation, 1337 or txt speak are not well tolerated.
  • Be concise but descriptive.
    • Include any and all relevant background information about your situation.
    • If the problem involves code we need to see it to help you with it.
    • If there are errors or exceptions being thrown then you must include it. Do not paraphrase or give a general NullPointerException. Give is the actual logs and if relevant indicate referenced lines in your code. We can't see your line numbers.
  • Point to similar posts you may have come across and explain why they may not fit your situation or how yours differs from them. If someone thinks it looks like a duplicate they will flag it as so. You need to pre-empt that by showing us you're aware of other posts' existence and why they didn't help you fix your problem.
  • Participate in your own Question
    • Stick around for a while after asking your Question.
    • If potential answerers require clarification or more details you should be there to supply them and improve your Question.
    • Many people may down-vote your post in frustration over their attempts at helping going unanswered or ignored.
    • You don't need to babysit it all day but a 20-40 minute period is a suggested minimum time to set aside. You'll get notified from anywhere on the Stack Exchange network of activity on your posts, you may wander around just stay online.

We need all the information to help and many users are too jaded after seeing the umteenth post of the day that does not help anyone formulate an answer let alone help the OP get a solution. If you do the asked preparation work people will usually respond well to your post regardless of how basic the issue was or if it has a duplicate.
Respect the community and what it asks of you & your perception will more than likely change for the better as you will receive more polite and helpful responses.

More on-topic

I'm not really for or against the suggested cap for down-vote rep losses. As Servy mentioned it's a bit of a non-issue. Posts don't usually get such a huge level of down-votes (on Stack Overflow, meta treats votes differently and doesn't affect rep anyway). and if they did it would likely be for a deserved reason.

Final note

By just coming here and asking for guidance in improving your submissions, contributions to and standing in the community you are already more valuable than 95% of the new users that come to Stack Overflow. The vast majority (which is an ever increasing number according to most) just show up, dump a question without any research and expect (some even demand) to be handed a full, complete and working solution by psychic users. It is these types that lead most to default their opinion of posts from new users to a negative one.

There are many discussions on combating this negative mentality or improving the quality of new submissions here on meta.SO and over on meta.SE. Stick around and contribute; your views are as valuable and appreciated as any other user's.

Further reading

(In no particular order, with many probable valuable omissions and just from a cursory search)

More effective closing / downvoting of junk questions to help with the signal-noise ratio?
Why the backlash against poor questions?
Should SO have a prequalification process for membership to weed out the 'noise'?
How to react to unfair downvotes that seem to be from the same user
Using upvotes to fight bad questions

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  • I think you underestimate how many people downvote just because they can, and because they can do so anonymously with no responsibility to be answerable for their vote that negatively affected someone else. Commented Oct 30, 2015 at 0:14

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